Elizabeth Line / Crossrail Updates.

[Platform 1]

A bit more information on the project is in this useful piece by the diamond geezer.  He quotes extracts from papers prepared for an Elizabeth Line committee meeting last week.  It seems reliability issues surround on-train software, comms and tunnel ventilation, which means Trial Operations has been split into two phases.

 

TfL look like having a poorer future by the week...

[woodenhead]

9 minutes ago, Platform 1 said:

A bit more information on the project is in this useful piece by the diamond geezer.  He quotes extracts from papers prepared for an Elizabeth Line committee meeting last week.  It seems reliability issues surround on-train software, comms and tunnel ventilation, which means Trial Operations has been split into two phases.

 

TfL look like having a poorer future by the week...

Depends how knowledgable Diamond Geezer is.

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

3 hours ago, Platform 1 said:

A bit more information on the project is in this useful piece by the diamond geezer....... 

He quotes extracts from papers prepared for an Elizabeth Line committee meeting last week......  

 

3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Depends how knowledgable Diamond Geezer is.

 

 

There's nothing hidden or secret about the papers he's selectively quoting from.

The same information was delivered to the transport committee hearing, which was broadcast live and can be viewed on YouTube.

I even linked the YouTube video earlier in this thread, so anyone so inclined can go and hear for themselves.

 

Diamond Geezer tries to make out the dividing of Trial Operations into 2 phases is some kind of failing or indication of things going wrong.

Everything is explained in the presentation to the committee and in the cross examination of the Crossrail CEO and Head of TfL.

 

It's entirely normal in large, complex system integration programmes, for software deliveries and builds to be incremental.

During this process the bugs and features are flushed out and rectified and the various systems, tweaked and modified in the light of testing and pre-operational experience.

Trial Running highlighted the need for some modifications that will be necessary to deliver a service level operation and that is what is being delivered before the 2nd phase of Trial Operations can be carried out.

 

The Trial Operations phase is said to include running 150 plus scenarios, some of which are relatively trivial or small scale, right up to full scale emergencies, including mass evacuations.

You don't need loads of volunteer passengers for things like dealing with certain systems issues, or relatively isolated situations that are more technical or operational in nature.

 

How does Diamond Geezer know what is being tested when he visited Custom house Station?

They are running a full service and the failure mode or issue being tested could be miles away, anywhere in the whole network.

e.g. Platform door issues at Paddington for example, or fallback modes in system control.

The latter would see no or little visible interruption to the service, if the fallback processes work properly, as they should.

 

Because the next big software drops are scheduled for the Christmas period, with associated testing, the large scale exercises that require those fixes and mods to be in place, will be carried out in the new year.

That's no big deal, as Diamond Geezer tries to make out. 

They can run most of the programme before they get to that stage.

 

The declared aim is very high reliability, robustness and safety.

That doesn't get delivered out of a box from Amazon !

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited November 28, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[Ron Ron Ron]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Mike Storey]

Thanks Ron - very useful.

 

He seems to be "guaranteeing" opening in the first half of 2022, but without the results of the revised software due over Christmas. Perhaps a bit rash, given the history?

 

I still do not understand why Canary Wharf, the first new station to be physically started, is the last to be completed and commissioned. I am aware of certain issues, but nothing which explains this.

 

But good news overall!

[Grovenor]

Not quite the last, Bond St. has that honour.

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

.....He seems to be "guaranteeing" opening in the first half of 2022, but without the results of the revised software due over Christmas. Perhaps a bit rash, given the history?

 

 

This isn't the same project management team or processes.

They appear to have successfully recovered the programme from 3 years ago and the whole thing is far more advanced than at that stage.

They are "guaranteeing" that it won't open, until it's ready and at the required level of reliability and safety.

 

If you watch the transport committee hearing, you'll hear the reasoning for using realistic, achievable windows, rather than setting "target dates", which on very complex projects like this are at best, "calculated guesswork" and crystal ball gazing.

There is high confidence in the window for going live.

As Mark Wild says, as they progress through Trial Operations, that window should narrow.

 

The various software packages will have gone through many versions.

The operational version has been running and tested in action over the, roughly 6 months of Trial Running phase, that has just ended.

They say the Christmas drop delivers the remaining bug fixes and changes that are required to complete the Trial Operations phase and prepare for live service.

 

2 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

......I still do not understand why Canary Wharf, the first new station to be physically started, is the last to be completed and commissioned. I am aware of certain issues, but nothing which explains this.....

 

I don't know the exact detail, but I understand it had something to do with ripping out the fire and safety systems, as the safety requirements and spec. had changed..... or something along those lines.

I might be a million miles off though?

It is supposed to be finished and handed over in the next few weeks.

As Grovenor say, Bond St. will be the last station handed over.

Bond St. is touch and go to be ready for opening day, but if it isn't, they say it'll be a matter of just a few weeks later.

 

 

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Edited December 1, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[ess1uk]

18 hours ago, Grovenor said:

Not quite the last, Bond St. has that honour.

but closing in

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/crossrail-is-closing-the-gap-at-problem-hit-bond-street-station-26-11-2021/

[The Stationmaster]

As a matter of interest I wonder when the train lengthening (additional vehicles) programme will be complete as i saw a 7 car set on a Paddington - Reading working yesterday.  (And yes - before anyone asks - I didn't board it but joined instead the 8 car class 387 worked train running a few minutes behind it).  

 

BTW it came to light yesterday through looking at some very odd public timetable timings that the Crossrail timings in the Down direction are clearly something of a nonsense as they have 2 minutes difference between advertised and WTT times over the 5 miles between Twyford and Reading.  This means that even trains which lose time over that section can still arrive 'early' on their advertised times in Reading - no wonder they have such a good timekeeping record   Odd that BR used to be criticised for doing that in their timetables with so called 'charter time' but TfL aren't.

[Ron Ron Ron]

10 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

As a matter of interest I wonder when the train lengthening (additional vehicles) programme will be complete as i saw a 7 car set on a Paddington - Reading working ……….

I thought that the lengthening of the handful of 7-car short sets, was completed some months ago.

All the extra vehicles were being delivered about this time last year IIRC?
 

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[jbqfc]

I was at Stratford on the 17th on November and they where still a few 7 car sets around 

I thought but could be wrong that the seven car sets where need until the core was open as not all the platforms at Liverpool street can take 9 cars  

 

John

[Ron Ron Ron]

35 minutes ago, jbqfc said:

…….I thought but could be wrong that the seven car sets where need until the core was open as not all the platforms at Liverpool street can take 9 cars  

That was the case, but I was under the impression the platform’s at LS were lengthened in recent times, allowing the normal length 9-car trains to operate.

 

I vaguely remember a statement or comment from somewhere, saying that the lengthening of the short formed sets had been completed.

All the extra vehicles were delivered last year and I re-posted a photo on here of one being delivered by road, at OOC.

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

I’ve seen a lot of 7-car services in Reading the past few weeks, I assumed it was to do with having 9-Car running on the Eastern into Liverpool Street.

 

Simon

[jamie92208]

This was covered in the latest Modern Railways. I can't remember the exact details but one of the main problems is software as the 7 car sets use an earlier version that isn't allowed through the tunnels and have to come the long way round to Old Oak on the surface. I beieve that a few 315's are being retained for the time being.

 

Jamie

[Mike Storey]

4 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

That was the case, but I was under the impression the platform’s at LS were lengthened in recent times, allowing the normal length 9-car trains to operate.

 

I vaguely remember a statement or comment from somewhere, saying that the lengthening of the short formed sets had been completed.

All the extra vehicles were delivered last year and I re-posted a photo on here of one being delivered by road, at OOC.

 

Correct. Platforms 16 and 17 were lengthened over last Christmas/New Year and commissioned in April. Platform 18 was taken out of use as a result, but a 30% increase in capacity was announced, which I never quite understood, but I guess that is from overall vehicles capable of being used on the GE.

 

However, the original plan required that this happened in conjunction with the full opening of Crossrail, so we can only hope that the latter happens before full demand returns, post Covid.

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

I thought that the lengthening of the handful of 7-car short sets, was completed some months ago.

All the extra vehicles were being delivered about this time last year IIRC?
 

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So did I  - until I saw a 7 car set yesterday morning on a Paddington -Reading working, which was why I asked.  The two sets I saw running in the opposite direction were both 9 car formations.

[jamie92208]

I've just retrieved Modern Railways from the recycling bag.  There are capacity problrms at Ilford and Old Oak and the conversion hasctaken longer thsn they expected as it's a slow process shuffling the units as they have to be dragged due to the gap in electrifucation at Acton.  Then there arecplatform problems at Paddington as untill sometime in 2022 peak hour workings will have to use Platform 14 which can only accommodate 7 car units. Thus 4 7 car sets are being retained for Paddington Reading services till the central tunnels are fully opened. Only 9 car units with the latest software can use the tunnels. 9 car sets are going yo work the Heathrow services and some Reading servicez though.

 

Jamie

[keefer]

Have there ever been plans to electrify the missing bit, Acton-Acton Wells Jn?

Seems odd that it hasn't been done yet, seeing as it would allow electric running all the way through to the ECML or Stratford and beyond.

[jamie92208]

3 hours ago, keefer said:

Have there ever been plans to electrify the missing bit, Acton-Acton Wells Jn?

Seems odd that it hasn't been done yet, seeing as it would allow electric running all the way through to the ECML or Stratford and beyond.

Others may have the full story but I think that it has been looked at several times but is difficult due to one particular bridge with IIRC a major road over it.  As you say, that and the Dudding Hill link to Cricklewood woul give all sorts of connecti9ns.

 

Jamie

[Ron Ron Ron]

12 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

I've just retrieved Modern Railways from the recycling bag.  There are capacity problrms at Ilford and Old Oak and the conversion hasctaken longer thsn they expected as it's a slow process shuffling the units as they have to be dragged due to the gap in electrifucation at Acton.  Then there arecplatform problems at Paddington as untill sometime in 2022 peak hour workings will have to use Platform 14 which can only accommodate 7 car units. Thus 4 7 car sets are being retained for Paddington Reading services till the central tunnels are fully opened. Only 9 car units with the latest software can use the tunnels. 9 car sets are going yo work the Heathrow services and some Reading servicez though.

 

Jamie

Thanks Jamie.

That explains the state of play with the last of the 7-car sets and why these sightings have been reported.

 

 

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[The Stationmaster]

7 hours ago, keefer said:

Have there ever been plans to electrify the missing bit, Acton-Acton Wells Jn?

Seems odd that it hasn't been done yet, seeing as it would allow electric running all the way through to the ECML or Stratford and beyond.

I have just posted what happened in that respect in this thread -

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133433-gwr-to-lease-‘tri-mode’-class-769-multiple-units-from-porterbrook/page/8/#comments

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

An update on Crossrail progress.

 

The Ian Visits website reports that the 1st phase of Trial Operations is coming to a conclusion.

The various system software updates and other upgrades were completed over the Xmas and NY holiday period, allowing the 2nd phase to commence shortly (imminently?).

These involve the mass evacuations and use of thousands of volunteers to test the passenger flows.

 

If all this is successfully completed, the line will be physically ready in only a couple of months time.

However there's a funding dilemma , which will affect a decision on the actual start of revenue passenger services.

 

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/crossrail-starting-final-phase-of-trial-operations-ahead-of-opening-50960/?fbclid=IwAR0vdTLdxOFm5IZJZ1XVXi09ZmGDLOIZUxgIJ09SEEs-ROM7mYPRHP6lgnc

 

 

p.s. I think the reference to future upgrades later this year, relates to the work necessary to integrate the GE and GWML services into the fully operational EL network.

This is due to happen between the end of 2022 and spring 2023 (i.e. fully running by next spring).

 

 

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[woodenhead]

I guess the easing of restrictions on crowds next week will help with the Phase 2 testing.

[woodenhead]

So it is possible that the tunnels could be up and running with passengers in March, just as the Government drop all Covid restrictions - so has Covid really just been a massive cover up to mask the delays and over runs on Crossrail?

[Ron Ron Ron]

47 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

So it is possible that the tunnels could be up and running with passengers in March, just as the Government drop all Covid restrictions - so has Covid really just been a massive cover up to mask the delays and over runs on Crossrail?

 

I get the humour, but it's TfL's project and their delay, not the government's.