Elizabeth Line / Crossrail Updates.

[Mike Storey]

17 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

 

Link does not seem to work for me Ron?

 

[melmerby]

32 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Link does not seem to work for me Ron?

 

 

[melmerby]

Line officially approved by ORR and can open this month:

https://www.orr.gov.uk/search-news/orr-confirms-green-light-elizabeth-line-opening

[The Stationmaster]

And the interesting news is that certain former BR/=National Rail passes will be valid for use throughout the central section.  And this is not just in the traditional way where they can already be used over former BR/Big Four routes with one or two available extensions onto LUL lines to enable complete journeys to be made over a parallel route (such as Ealing Broadway to Paddington via the Central and Circle/District Lines).

 

And it means that I have the choice of two different passes that I can use between Paddington and Abbey Wood - spoilt for choice as they say. (no, I don't mind travelling on London UndergrounD trains on underground lines in London).

 

[jamie92208]

36 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

And the interesting news is that certain former BR/=National Rail passes will be valid for use throughout the central section.  And this is not just in the traditional way where they can already be used over former BR/Big Four routes with one or two available extensions onto LUL lines to enable complete journeys to be made over a parallel route (such as Ealing Broadway to Paddington via the Central and Circle/District Lines).

 

And it means that I have the choice of two different passes that I can use between Paddington and Abbey Wood - spoilt for choice as they say. (no, I don't mind travelling on London UndergrounD trains on underground lines in London).

 

It's a pity I can't be over when you next meet up with others Mike. However I hope to be there during the week before and pland to ride the line.

 

Jamie

[Chris116]

During the last week I have received two emails from TfL to tell me the Elizabeth Line is opening on 24th May which is the good news.

 

The bad news is that the TfL journey planner says that on 26th May the fastest way to travel from Paddington to Liverpool Street is by the Circle Line! Looks like left hand and right hand are not talking to each other.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Chris116
Spelling

[KingEdwardII]

On 14/05/2022 at 12:42, Chris116 said:

the TfL journey planner says

The National Rail website and app correctly display the Elizabeth line services for journeys from Hayes to Stratford, although they make too much allowance for the connection times at Paddington & Liverpool Street.

 

Yours, Mike.

[phil-b259]

7 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

The National Rail website and app correctly display the Elizabeth line services for journeys from Hayes to Stratford, although they make too much allowance for the connection times at Paddington & Liverpool Street.

 

Yours, Mike.

 

Not sure why Stratford is relevant yet - all trains from Shenfield will go into Liverpool Street high level for many months yet. I understand its also a bit of a trek from the high level platforms the Shenfield trains use to the Elizbeth line platforms there too.

 

Similarly to get from the Elizbeth line platforms at Paddington round to the high numbered suburban platforms trains to Reading and Heathrow go from takes ages too.

[melmerby]

I see that the "ghost" service, currently running on Elizabeth Line is now live on Real Time Trains.

When I looked a while back it wasn't showing.

Edited May 16, 2022 by melmerby

[KingEdwardII]

8 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Not sure why Stratford is relevant

Because Hayes to Stratford is the journey that I am planning. Hockey internationals at the Lee Valley stadium...

 

The alternatives are the North London line from Richmond/Kew to Stratford or the same pair using train/tube via Waterloo. 

 

At the moment, with the changes at Paddington & Liverpool Street, it's a toss-up between all 3 alternatives - they all take somewhere just over an hour (with the really pessimistic change times used by the app). But I am looking for an excuse to use the Elizabeth line - and this is my first journey that could reasonably use that route.

 

Yours, Mike.

[flapland]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61465207

 

Glad she was able to visit. Would have loved to see the Royal Train pass through but suspect in 2022 the paper work to allow such a working would be enormous. 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, flapland said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61465207

 

Glad she was able to visit. Would have loved to see the Royal Train pass through but suspect in 2022 the paper work to allow such a working would be enormous. 

As the line isn't yet open for normal everyday running through the central section and if it is technically possible for an 25kv ac electric loco to run off the ohle on the TfL section and for everything on the train to be in gauge and cope with any horizontal or vertical curvature then it would be quite feasible if people really put their mind to it.

 

But you start with those important technical 'ifs' and they - in reality - are the only no/yes deciders in. operational terms.  The signalling system is irrelevant because with only one train there the need for signals doesn't exist - you simply run through what amounts to a possession which is a hardly the first time that sort of arrangement has been made for a (full) Royal Train.   But - the technical matters I have listed apart - it is more a matter of the will to do it, plus some hardly radical creative thinking, rather than anything else.  But I couldn't really see that happening because in publicity terms you would get an immediate hoohah with folk asking (with good reason)  why if a Royal Train can run from, say,  Slough to wherever in the central section of the route why do we have to wait months before ordinary mortals can do it?

Edited May 17, 2022 by The Stationmaster

[corneliuslundie]

When it was stated that the line was opening I naively assumed that it meant through running from the west and east. At the moment it seems of little real use. Disappointing.

Not that I intend going anywhere near London ever again if I can help it. 35 years of commuting gave me my fill.

Jonathan

[KingEdwardII]

34 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

At the moment it seems of little real use. Disappointing.

Actually, the Elizabeth line is at least as good as the alternatives for an East/West journey even in its initial state which require a change at both Paddington and Liverpool Street if going on the eastern branch to Shenfield. Indeed, I think it will be faster if the real change times are less than those in the National Rail system, as seems likely to me.  I am sure that journeys to Abbey Wood are going to be faster than any current alternative, even with the single change required.

 

I'm planning on using the Elizabeth line to go from west London (Hayes) to Stratford on 4 June for the Hockey internationals - my only concern relates to the various Jubilee events and the potential for crowding, but that would affect any route I could choose.

 

Yours, Mike.

[phil-b259]

36 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

When it was stated that the line was opening I naively assumed that it meant through running from the west and east. At the moment it seems of little real use. Disappointing.

Not that I intend going anywhere near London ever again if I can help it. 35 years of commuting gave me my fill.

Jonathan

 

It was always intended to open in stages - for a very good reason.

 

Although there has been extensive testing, there is nothing like running in public service to highlight any issues BEFORE you then risk messing up the GWML and or GEML with failures in the core.

 

As things stand its still going to make getting to Canary Wharf from Paddington much easier and will take some pressure off the Central line.

 

Also, as has been highlighted by verious people, because it is effectively part of the national rail network certain products which cannot be used on the Underground can now be used to pass east-west through London.

 

Finally Crossrail trains have air con - and we all know how uncomfortable the Underground can be in summer!

 

[EddieB]

Excuse me if I'm a little underwhelmed.  I've been looking forward to the grand opening, but more to the convenience of being able to make a single cross-platform connection at Stratford and travel through to Heathrow - luggage and escalators don't mix easily.  Four years on, I'm still going to have to wait a little longer.

 

I'll be interested to see how ingress/egress from the deep platforms in Central London compares with the Paris RER (a mere fifty years before), how convenient are the interchanges (e.g. Farringdon for Thameslink) and how the frequency of trains copes with demand.

 

Yes, it's an exciting project - and long overdue (not just construction overruns).  I want it to be a success.

[Mike Storey]

12 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

 

As things stand its still going to make getting to Canary Wharf from Paddington much easier and will take some pressure off the Central line.

 

 

Indeed, but also to Canary Wharf from North Kent (whence a lot of its workers come), via Abbey Wood, relieving some pressure on Lewisham and the southern DLR, which sorely needs it. What remains to be seen is how Abbey Wood will cope, if that turns out to be as popular as it might be.

 

[phil-b259]

3 minutes ago, Mike Storey said:

 

Indeed, but also to Canary Wharf from North Kent (whence a lot of its workers come), via Abbey Wood, relieving some pressure on Lewisham and the southern DLR, which sorely needs it. What remains to be seen is how Abbey Wood will cope, if that turns out to be as popular as it might be.

 

 

I question exactly how much relief to Lewisham it really will provide.

 

Lewisham gets trains from all 3 of the Dartford lines plus the Hayes branch. Abbey Wood is only on one of the aforementioned lines so passengers from the other two (plus Hayes) will still need to use Lewisham.

 

[eastwestdivide]

59 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

I question exactly how much relief to Lewisham it really will provide

Good point. Looking at the current timetable, access to Abbey Wood from the East comes via 2 trains per hour SE starting at Dartford, 2 tph 'rounders' from the Sidcup line, plus 2 tph Thameslink from Rainham (Kent).  All of those also intersect with the DLR at Lewisham or Greenwich, so it'll be interesting to see what the effect on travel patterns will be.

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

As the line isn't yet open for normal everyday running through the central section and if it is technically possible for an 25kv ac electric loco to run off the ohle on the TfL section and for everything on the train to be in gauge and cope with any horizontal or vertical curvature then it would be quite feasible if people really put their mind to it.

 

But you start with those important technical 'ifs' and they - in reality - are the only no/yes deciders in. operational terms.  The signalling system is irrelevant because with only one train there the need for signals doesn't exist - you simply run through what amounts to a possession which is a hardly the first time that sort of arrangement has been made for a (full) Royal Train.   But - the technical matters I have listed apart - it is more a matter of the will to do it, plus some hardly radical creative thinking, rather than anything else.  But I couldn't really see that happening because in publicity terms you would get an immediate hoohah with folk asking (with good reason)  why if a Royal Train can run from, say,  Slough to wherever in the central section of the route why do we have to wait months before ordinary mortals can do it?

And very importantly - does the Royal train have retention loos - no-one wants to be the one on Royal Doody duties.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, EddieB said:

Excuse me if I'm a little underwhelmed.  I've been looking forward to the grand opening, but more to the convenience of being able to make a single cross-platform connection at Stratford and travel through to Heathrow - luggage and escalators don't mix easily.  Four years on, I'm still going to have to wait a little longer.

 

I'll be interested to see how ingress/egress from the deep platforms in Central London compares with the Paris RER (a mere fifty years before), how convenient are the interchanges (e.g. Farringdon for Thameslink) and how the frequency of trains copes with demand.

 

Yes, it's an exciting project - and long overdue (not just construction overruns).  I want it to be a success.

The deep level platforms are a major consumer of time, and convenience, with the RER in Paris.  But at least some of its routes have created inter (mainline) station possible journeys which were previously non-existent or far from easy by anything other than the dubious joys of a trip in a Parisian taxi..

 

But the great thing about the RER as an idea is that in reality it post dated Crossrail  but started to come into existence long before Crossrail was even a project on its way to cancellation and then going moribund for a couple of decades.  That - in. my view - is a major indictment of the way in which the UK handles its approach to public transport

[The Stationmaster]

7 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

And very importantly - does the Royal train have retention loos - no-one wants to be the one on Royal Doody duties.

That was a job for the PerWay blokes although there was one (in)famous occasion on which the heir to the throne trod in what was probably his own because tr the stuff could not be cleared before he started on walking trip.  (And to make matters worse he, or somebody, forgot the Royal picnic breakfast  and I finished up having to make a trip up to London to meet it off a train from Cornwall in order to personally return it to Kensington Palace (Tradesmen's Entrance of course).

[DY444]

2 hours ago, EddieB said:

Excuse me if I'm a little underwhelmed.  I've been looking forward to the grand opening, but more to the convenience of being able to make a single cross-platform connection at Stratford and travel through to Heathrow - luggage and escalators don't mix easily.  Four years on, I'm still going to have to wait a little longer.

 

I'll be interested to see how ingress/egress from the deep platforms in Central London compares with the Paris RER (a mere fifty years before), how convenient are the interchanges (e.g. Farringdon for Thameslink) and how the frequency of trains copes with demand.

 

Yes, it's an exciting project - and long overdue (not just construction overruns).  I want it to be a success.

 

As the first phase provides step free access at both Paddington and Liverpool St then your luggage and escalators will no longer require to mix in the initial period before the through running starts.

[PerthBox]

42 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

And very importantly - does the Royal train have retention loos

 

Yes the Mk3 Royal saloons, Household coaches and the Mk2 escort/power coaches have had controlled emission toilets since conversion/new.

[KeithMacdonald]

36 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

And very importantly - does the Royal train have retention loos - no-one wants to be the one on Royal Doody duties.

 

36 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

That was a job jobbie for the PerWay blokes

 

Fixed that for you 😉