Castle Aching

[St Enodoc]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Hmm. What haven't we had? That must be Coal Tank Mews, SW1.

Nope.

 

Hint: it's actually related to a different game altogether...

[Nearholmer]

 

22 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I've not come across them being called Black Princes, though perhaps they are in your old book

 

Exactly that. But not just that: for reasons that I don't understand, Black Prince was seen as "the class leader" by railway enthusiasts of the time, and it (She? He?) was chosen by Bassett-Lowke as the inspiration for the first mass-produced model locos that he commissioned and sold. 

https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Black_Prince_locomotive_2631_(Bing_with_Bassett-Lowke,_gauge_3) Its often cited as the model that really began "railway modelling", as distinct from either "toy trains" or "model engineering".

 

I added the missing one and corrected Alfred before your response.

 

Edit: It was because 'Black Prince' was the first 4-coupled compound, whereas 'Iron Duke'/'Jubilee' was originally a simple, so two separate classes. 'Jubilee' was rebuilt as a compound after comparitive trials.

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

13 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Exactly that. But not just that: for reasons that I don't understand, Black Prince was seen as "the class leader" by railway enthusiasts of the time, and it (She? He?) was chosen by Bassett-Lowke as the inspiration for the first mass-produced model locos that he commissioned and sold. 

https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Black_Prince_locomotive_2631_(Bing_with_Bassett-Lowke,_gauge_3) Its often cited as the model that really began "railway modelling", as distinct from either "toy trains" or "model engineering".

 

Curious. But "The Midland Railway version of the Black Prince (numbered 2631)"... Well, I suppose 2631 was a 4-4-0 compound with two outside cylinders and rectangular cab side-sheets, but BL was shortly to do rather better:

 

 

Now that's serious finescale RTR - or are you classing it as "model engineering"?

 

(I see Bonhams sold one in 2007 for just £9 more than the running number!)

 

13 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I added the missing one and corrected Alfred before your response.

 

Noted. Points will not be deducted.

 

And in the spirit of @St Enodoc's post, we know what points means, don't we?

Edited December 18, 2021 by Compound2632

[Nearholmer]

I've eddited to add a note as to why 'Black Prince' was the class leader, having delved into it a bit.

[Adam88]

25 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

(photo by Jeff Knaggs, Wikipedia public domain)

 

I'm sorry, I haven't a clue.

 

[Nearholmer]

And, I've realised how 'Black Prince' came to be the first BL-Bing loco ......... the two met at the Paris Exhibition in 1900, and on display there was "La France", of the Black Prince class!

 

WJB-L was seriously impressed by what Bing could do, and he must have said to Stefan Bing: "Make me a run of models of that, but name it 'Black Prince', because thats the one everybody in England knows."

[Compound2632]

24 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Edit: It was because 'Black Prince' was the first 4-coupled compound, whereas 'Iron Duke'/'Jubilee' was originally a simple, so two separate classes. 'Jubilee' was rebuilt as a compound after comparitive trials.

 

Yes, I should have looked in Talbot rather than relying only on Goodman. Black Prince started out with Webb's experimental double chimney. La France had Crewe motion number 4,000 - so nominally the 4,000th engine built there - which is presumably why it was chosen for the exhibition, the name being chosen in consequence. 

 

E. Talbot, An Illustrated History of LNWR Engines (OPC, 1985)

J. Goodman, L&NWR Locomotive Names (RCTS, 2002)

Edited December 18, 2021 by Compound2632

[Andy Hayter]

31 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

(photo by Jeff Knaggs, Wikipedia public domain)

 

 

#

 

Mornington Crescent??

 

[Nearholmer]

9 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Now that's serious finescale RTR - or are you classing it as "model engineering"?

I’d say ME, bu at the time BL were using simplified, spirit-fired, derived from “toy” practice, boilers on a lot of locos even that big, so maybe a sort of cross-breed.

 

It was probably designed to be operated as a “big model railway” loco, rather than to pull passengers on trolleys.

[RedGemAlchemist]

21 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Black Prince started out with Webb's experimental double chimney.

Ick. Was never a fan of the way they looked.

[wagonman]

On 18/12/2021 at 23:53, Andy Hayter said:

 

 

#

 

Mornington Crescent??

 

 

I should know it: my first wife used to work in the big building opposite (Greater London House) which was/is the Young & Rubicam advertising agency. Too much information? Sorry.

[Edwardian]

Apart from Hardwicke, the other arrival that sparked off the recent Premier Line Quiz Night was this, the 4'6" or Mansion House, tank.

 

 

I stuck it back together, and popped some lining transfers on the boiler bands. In the process, the lamp irons came off, but, since they are not LNWR pattern, I've left them off.  I believe a centre one would be added in 1903, but, since these locos are not collected with Castle Aching in mind, I don't necessarily need to add three irons. 

 

This prompted me to unearth the other Really Useful [LNWR] Engines I had. Some are a bit scrappy and I notice that the Coal Tank also needs its boiler bands lined. The Cauliflower has obviously been polished up for passenger turns!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

This prompted me to unearth the other Really Useful [LNWR] Engines I had.

 

Your hoard (or horde) of engines continues to take one by surprise.

[Penlan]

On 18/12/2021 at 23:15, Compound2632 said:

There was a long line of HMS Dreadnoughts;

Mentioning the Dreadnoughts, and nothing to do with the LNWR, 
I was reading recently a History of Coal Mining ('Black Gold') and it mentioned the HMS Dreadnoughts consumed 300 tons of good Welsh Coal a day when out at sea.
"Not a'lotta people know that" 

[Caley Jim]

By 1918-19 Clegorn Brickwork, Near Lanark, had perfected the production of a type of fireclay bricks which were ideal for the brick arches in the fireboxes of Dreadnought battleships. Unfortunately, by then, there wasn't the same need for Dreadnought battleships! 

 

Jim 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Penlan said:

I was reading recently a History of Coal Mining ('Black Gold') and it mentioned the HMS Dreadnoughts consumed 300 tons of good Welsh Coal a day when out at sea.

 

The Wikipedia article on the 1906 HMS Dreadnought, Jacky Fisher's baby, citing J. Roberts, The Battleship Dreadnought Anatomy of the Ship (Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press, revised ed. 2001) states "Dreadnought carried 2,868 long tons (2,914 t) of coal, and an additional 1,120 long tons (1,140 t) of fuel oil that was to be sprayed on the coal to increase its burn rate. At full capacity, she could steam for 6,620 nautical miles (12,260 km; 7,620 mi) at a speed of 10 knots (19 km/h; 12 mph)." That works out at 108 tons of coal per day; but obviously the 42 tons of fuel oil per day was making a significant contribution. This ship was the first turbine battleship, so, more fuel-efficient than the reciprocating-engine HMS Dreadnought after which Webb's compound was named. For comparison, I read that RMS Titanic carried 6,600 tons, which it was consuming at the rate of 825 tons a day.

[Nearholmer]

Even now big ships gollop through a lot of fuel. They are the most fuel-efficient way of shifting big bulks around the world, but they still drink a lot, because they are big, and go a long way.

 

The one time we went on a cruise, on a whopping great thing, I got very bored (which summarises the “days at sea” part of a cruise for me) and decided to research how much fuel the vessel was getting through, particularly after watching the exhaust trail behind us. Conclusion: cruising is a deeply un-green way of having a holiday, even on a modern turbine-electric ship, made worse if you choose a line that caters to the US market (I think they all do), because that dictates that the entire cargo of humans has to be transported in refrigerated conditions (bonkers-cold air-con).

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

59 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Even now big ships gollop through a lot of fuel. They are the most fuel-efficient way of shifting big bulks around the world, but they still drink a lot, because they are big, and go a long way.

 

The one time we went on a cruise, on a whopping great thing, I got very bored (which summarises the “days at sea” part of a cruise for me) and decided to research how much fuel the vessel was getting through, particularly after watching the exhaust trail behind us. Conclusion: cruising is a deeply un-green way of having a holiday, even on a modern turbine-electric ship, made worse if you choose a line that caters to the US market (I think they all do), because that dictates that the entire cargo of humans has to be transported in refrigerated conditions (bonkers-cold air-con).

 

 

 

Worse were those cruise ships that visit Caribbean islands less that a day's steaming from one another.  The ships apparently spend the night steaming in circles!

[jwealleans]

3 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

The ships apparently spend the night steaming in circles!

 

Cross-channel ferries do that, or did when I used them regularly in the early 90s.

[drmditch]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

 

Cross-channel ferries do that, or did when I used them regularly in the early 90s.

Last time I used a cross-channel ferry was in the 1990s, on the Portsmouth- St Malo route.

If I remember correctly quite a lot of the night was 'hove-to' (although it wasn't a sailing vessel!) waiting for the tide somewhere of the Cotentin peninsula, Tides in that corner, such as the 'Alderney Race' are quite severe. It can make economic sense to wait until you don't have to try to push against them.

[Nearholmer]

My abiding memory of that route is of spending 97.34% of the night awake, because our then very infant son would not or could not sleep in the "pop up" cot provided in the cabin.

 

We were absolutely exhaused on arrival, and then had to drive several hours in bleary relay to our destination ......... while infant son had a lovely cosy sleep in the back. So that he could awake refreshed and lively, just as we arrived and wanted to collapse asleep ourselves.

 

He doesnt remember any of this. We both do.

[RedGemAlchemist]

22 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Apart from Hardwicke, the other arrival that sparked off the recent Premier Line Quiz Night was this, the 4'6" or Mansion House, tank.

 

 

I stuck it back together, and popped some lining transfers on the boiler bands. In the process, the lamp irons came off, but, since they are not LNWR pattern, I've left them off.  I believe a centre one would be added in 1903, but, since these locos are not collected with Castle Aching in mind, I don't necessarily need to add three irons. 

 

This prompted me to unearth the other Really Useful [LNWR] Engines I had. Some are a bit scrappy and I notice that the Coal Tank also needs its boiler bands lined. The Cauliflower has obviously been polished up for passenger turns!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For all my LNER fanboying I've always quite liked the look of the LNWR's locos. You have good taste as usual.

[Penlan]

16 hours ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

...... I've always quite liked the look of the LNWR's locos. You have good taste as usual.

You have good taste indeed 

[wessy]

On 15/12/2021 at 13:31, Edwardian said:

 

Well, I don't see why the LNWR couldn't run a train onto the WNR* via Peterborough** and GER lines.

 

* Whether they'd want to is an entirely different matter.

** Just 'Peterborough', not, in our time, 'Peterborough East'.  The ECML GNR station is 'Peterborough Cowgate'. 

 

 

 

They had through carriages from the midlands to Cromer, and (from memory) Ipswich as well.

[Edwardian]

6 minutes ago, wessy said:

They had through carriages from the midlands to Cromer, and (from memory) Ipswich as well.

 

Through coaches are the more likely; Birchoverham-Next-the-Sea being a Cromer equivalent. However,  the odd through train should be included,  just because.....