************* Presents?

[jonhall]

I see that the old talking point has raised its head again and we have an Exhibition this weekend by the Modelfest Club in Kent.

 

Is there such a Club?

 

I've sent them a mail to the address in the UK Modelshop listing, but have yet to receive an answer. No phone number either.

 

Are we looking at another fictitious Club?

 

Dave

 

 

Dave you need to read back to this post http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112235-presents/?p=2413356

 

Jon

[dasatcopthorne]

Recently picked up a few exhibition flyers at the Erith Longfield Show.

 

I see the commercial show calendar is expanding.

 

19 Feb in Reigate

25 Feb in Maldon Essex.

29 Apr in Rye

&

20 May in Tunbridge Wells.

 

All giving the same telephone number of 07595 255150 !!

 

Dave

[Chris M]

I see two problems with commercial shows whether big or small. Firstly it does take income from model railway clubs. Most people won't go to every show in their area so a new commercial show is likely to lead to reduced revenue for a club organised show in the same area. This is almost certainly bad for local clubs. Secondly from an exhibitors point of view I am not a great fan of giving up my weekend for free to help someone turn a profit. Having said that I would give up my time for free regardless of helping someone to make money if I thought the show was achieving something worthwhile for the hobby.

 

As a punter I much prefer going to shows where I know the money is going to a model railway club or a good cause but I do go to a couple of commercial shows most years, grudgingly parting with money, because they have something I want to see or be part of. Generally speaking shows put on by clubs tend to be better value because of the hours of work put in by club members for free. Stafford show this coming weekend is an excellent example of a great value good quality club show. I have no connection with Stafford club.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Chris M

[PenrithBeacon]

Recently picked up a few exhibition flyers at the Erith Longfield Show.

 

I see the commercial show calendar is expanding.

 

19 Feb in Reigate

25 Feb in Maldon Essex.

29 Apr in Rye

&

20 May in Tunbridge Wells.

 

All giving the same telephone number of 07595 255150 !!

 

Dave

Thank you for this post. I shall know to avoid them.

[Geoff Endacott]

They are all listed on UK Model Shops as presented by DD Events.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Torper]

Having said that I would give up my time for free regardless of helping someone to make money if I thought the show was achieving something worthwhile for the hobby.

 

Surely any decent show, commercial or otherwise, can achieve something worthwhile for the hobby if it manages to persuade more people into the hobby.  In a town that doesn't otherwise have a show, or indeed a model railway club, I think that a decent exhibition should be welcomed regardless as to who is organising it (well, maybe Trump Greatest Model Railway Shows Inc would be a step too far )

 

Thank you for this post. I shall know to avoid them.

 

That's surely a trifle blinkered.  If you have alook at the three shows, all seem to have something to commend them.   Rye has 15 layouts, with more expected, in five different scales.  Maldon has 21 layouts and some demonstrations.  Reigate, the smallest, has 11 confirmed layouts (including examples in EM and P4) and expects three more.  None are in a town that would appear to have an exisiting model railway club with which it could be said to be competing.  It does seem to me that if DD Events is making any money out of these (and at a fiver a time it's not going to be much by the time they've paid all their outlays) they may well be ploughing a fair proportion of it back into future shows and that can only be good for the hobby.

 

DT

.

[cp409067]

*

 

The statement -

 

"We are proud to present the first Rye Model Railway Exhibition."

 

(http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/events/14296-DDEventsExhibition)

 

- is at best confused and at worst incorrect.

 

The exhibition being promoted on Sat 29 April 2017 may be the first in Rye by "DD Events", but it is not the first to take place in Rye. There was one on 15 July 1995 which if memory serves had a Col Stephens anniversary connection. I was an exhibitor at this event.

 

 

CP

[nick_bastable]

*

 

The statement -

 

"We are proud to present the first Rye Model Railway Exhibition."

 

(http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/events/14296-DDEventsExhibition)

 

- is at best confused and at worst incorrect.

 

The exhibition being promoted on Sat 29 April 2017 may be the first in Rye by "DD Events", but it is not the first to take place in Rye. There was one on 15 July 1995 which if memory serves had a Col Stephens anniversary connection. I was an exhibitor at this event.

 

 

CP

Rye and Camber Tramway opened July 1895

 

Nick

[Ravenser]

Recently picked up a few exhibition flyers at the Erith Longfield Show.

 

I see the commercial show calendar is expanding.

 

19 Feb in Reigate

25 Feb in Maldon Essex.

29 Apr in Rye

&

20 May in Tunbridge Wells.

 

All giving the same telephone number of 07595 255150 !!

 

Dave

 

 

 

Hmm.

 

This is a curious thread, and I am left with the strong impression that a small number of people are attempting to "police" who may put on a model railway exhibition , and specifically to suggest that only existing shows organised by a model railway club are bona fide , and to promote a boycott of other, specifically named, shows by visitors and layout owners in the hope of contributing to their demise.

 

We've seen this before, with targeting of the shows organised by Warners (and others) - one former member of this forum attempted to promote the idea that layout owners should charge penal rates for attending, in order to render them unviable - oddly enough the gentleman concerned is a prominent exhibition manager in the North of England, and he and others with similar views seem to have left rather than support a forum owned by Warners... .

 

(Indeed most of those attempting to "police" shows not organised by MRCs seem to be long-standing club exhibition managers, who have a vested interest in the right to stage model railway exhibitions being confined to clubs with existing exhibitions, as they need money from shows to support their clubs and subsidise their activities. In many cases the defence of a vested interest may be totally legitimate, and indeed very much deserving of success - all the same I am never comfortable being told I have a moral duty to boycott Commercial Interest A to damage it in support of Commercial Interest B....)

 

I'm also curious why something like Brighton Modelworld or the Southend show - where the money goes to the local council , not the hobby, and I've heard negative comments about quality - is thought fine and entirely uncontroversial while Warners, Harry and Dakota Dibden are deemed worthy of such moral indignation . Come to that I'm struggling to see why the GCR's modelling event is deemed legitimate but Doncaster is deemed a moral question. I value both modelling magazines and preserved railways - and neither offer themselves free.

 

In the case of Dakota Dibden, we have first hand testimony from a substantial witness that he has put on a decent show at Wallingford, and enough testimony from people who've exhibited at his shows to suggest that exhibitors have been adequately treated, and as far as I can see those involved have been aware who is promoting the show and what they are dealing with. Exhibitions organised by a one man band in his early 20s are no doubt going to have a slightly different atmosphere to those organised by a committee of gentlemen in their late 60s and early 70s. The "sockpuppet" MRCs suggest someone who has spent rather too long on the internet, but he's evidently cleaned up his act in this respect, and I'm not clear why the latest round of small shows is being now targeted in this way. There's no suggestion exhibitors haven't been paid their expenses (as has occasionally been claimed of one or two dubious shows) , liability insurance seems to be in place etc

 

And if "commercial" is thought a damning word , why are we frequently exhorted that we have a moral duty to buy only from independent model shops , and not "boxshifters" or direct sources - when every independent model shop is a commercial venture that someone hopes to make a living from?

 

dasatcopthorne​ seems inadvertently to be providing Dakota Dibdin with exhibition publicity. One of these events is relatively close to me - I wasn't aware of it, but the local exhibition scene has become relatively weak, there are no other shows at this time of year, and on the basis of the information in this thread it might be worth a fiver and an afternoon out

 

I'd also question why Harry ("russianlayout" ) has taken stick. He runs a theatre - and shock horror has organised a couple of exhibitions on the premises which generated profits.  Just consider for a moment what the Alban Arena management have put into this hobby over the years - and how much they've taken out of it in the form of venue hire for CMRA exhibitions over the years . Yet nobody criticises them. How much have the NEC extracted from the hobby? York and Doncaster Racecourses? And an awful lot of schools across the land with ever greedier and more commercial bursars.....

 

If a venue organises an exhibition itself, does the work to put it on itself, takes the commercial risk - they can hardly be blamed for hoping to make at least as much money as they'd get by hiring out the venue to an MRC to do the same thing - with no commercial risk and a fraction of the work.

 

The people who are really taking money out of the exhibition circuit are the venues , who are rack-renting organisers, to the point that organising a show is becoming a relatively high-risk/low reward exercise. If you want to get rich, I can think of a good many much lower risk and higher margin activities than organising a model railway exhibition

 

[Edit: I suppose I should add that I've given voluntary support at an event which has been "targeted " in this way to dissuade people from attending or taking their layouts there, I've helped on a stand at a number of events which some posters might deem "commercial" and therefore somehow illegitimate, and of the handful of bookings I've had with my layout , only one (prospective) booking has been for a club-organised show. I firmly believe that the hobby would have been significantly poorer without those events, and I doubt if club-organised events would have filled any of the gaps.  All of which I suppose makes me a particularly immoral member of the hobby....]

Edited February 2, 2017 by Ravenser

[Geoff Endacott]

I don't see a problem with shows run by DD Events. It was the shows run by non-existent clubs which didn't seem quite right.

 

Geoff Endacott

[dasatcopthorne]

Hmm.

 

This is a curious thread, and I am left with the strong impression that a small number of people are attempting to "police" who may put on a model railway exhibition , and specifically to suggest that only existing shows organised by a model railway club are bona fide , and to promote a boycott of other, specifically named, shows by visitors and layout owners in the hope of contributing to their demise.

 

We've seen this before, with targeting of the shows organised by Warners (and others) - one former member of this forum attempted to promote the idea that layout owners should charge penal rates for attending, in order to render them unviable - oddly enough the gentleman concerned is a prominent exhibition manager in the North of England, and he and others with similar views seem to have left rather than support a forum owned by Warners... .

 

(Indeed most of those attempting to "police" shows not organised by MRCs seem to be long-standing club exhibition managers, who have a vested interest in the right to stage model railway exhibitions being confined to clubs with existing exhibitions, as they need money from shows to support their clubs and subsidise their activities. In many cases the defence of a vested interest may be totally legitimate, and indeed very much deserving of success - all the same I am never comfortable being told I have a moral duty to boycott Commercial Interest A to damage it in support of Commercial Interest B....)

 

I'm also curious why something like Brighton Modelworld or the Southend show - where the money goes to the local council , not the hobby, and I've heard negative comments about quality - is thought fine and entirely uncontroversial while Warners, Harry and Dakota Dibden are deemed worthy of such moral indignation . Come to that I'm struggling to see why the GCR's modelling event is deemed legitimate but Doncaster is deemed a moral question. I value both modelling magazines and preserved railways - and neither offer themselves free.

 

In the case of Dakota Dibden, we have first hand testimony from a substantial witness that he has put on a decent show at Wallingford, and enough testimony from people who've exhibited at his shows to suggest that exhibitors have been adequately treated, and as far as I can see those involved have been aware who is promoting the show and what they are dealing with. Exhibitions organised by a one man band in his early 20s are no doubt going to have a slightly different atmosphere to those organised by a committee of gentlemen in their late 60s and early 70s. The "sockpuppet" MRCs suggest someone who has spent rather too long on the internet, but he's evidently cleaned up his act in this respect, and I'm not clear why the latest round of small shows is being now targeted in this way. There's no suggestion exhibitors haven't been paid their expenses (as has occasionally been claimed of one or two dubious shows) , liability insurance seems to be in place etc

 

And if "commercial" is thought a damning word , why are we frequently exhorted that we have a moral duty to buy only from independent model shops , and not "boxshifters" or direct sources - when every independent model shop is a commercial venture that someone hopes to make a living from?

 

dasatcopthorne​ seems inadvertently to be providing Dakota Dibdin with exhibition publicity. One of these events is relatively close to me - I wasn't aware of it, but the local exhibition scene has become relatively weak, there are no other shows at this time of year, and on the basis of the information in this thread it might be worth a fiver and an afternoon out

 

I'd also question why Harry ("russianlayout" ) has taken stick. He runs a theatre - and shock horror has organised a couple of exhibitions on the premises which generated profits. Just consider for a moment what the Alban Arena management have put into this hobby over the years - and how much they've taken out of it in the form of venue hire for CMRA exhibitions over the years . Yet nobody criticises them. How much have the NEC extracted from the hobby? York and Doncaster Racecourses? And an awful lot of schools across the land with ever greedier and more commercial bursars.....

 

If a venue organises an exhibition itself, does the work to put it on itself, takes the commercial risk - they can hardly be blamed for hoping to make at least as much money as they'd get by hiring out the venue to an MRC to do the same thing - with no commercial risk and a fraction of the work.

 

The people who are really taking money out of the exhibition circuit are the venues , who are rack-renting organisers, to the point that organising a show is becoming a relatively high-risk/low reward exercise. If you want to get rich, I can think of a good many much lower risk and higher margin activities than organising a model railway exhibition

 

[Edit: I suppose I should add that I've given voluntary support at an event which has been "targeted " in this way to dissuade people from attending or taking their layouts there, I've helped on a stand at a number of events which some posters might deem "commercial" and therefore somehow illegitimate, and of the handful of bookings I've had with my layout , only one (prospective) booking has been for a club-organised show. I firmly believe that the hobby would have been significantly poorer without those events, and I doubt if club-organised events would have filled any of the gaps. All of which I suppose makes me a particularly immoral member of the hobby....]

Ravenser.

 

May I suggest you re-read through the thread to gain a proper understanding of what it's about.

 

Allow me to aid your understanding.

 

I started it because there seemed to be a show in Oxted stating that it was by or in cooperation with the local Council. Not true.

 

Then there appeared a few other shows appearing to use names of Club's that didn't actually exist.

 

Are you getting my drift yet ?

 

By the way, I notice that you mainly only comment on a thread when you want to argue about the content. So please take this as a pointer and comment and not a counter arguement or view on you post. Just advise.

 

I won't be replying to any more of yours as in the 16.2mm threads.

 

Dave

Edited February 3, 2017 by dasatcopthorne

[Tony_S]

The Maldon exhibition sounds interesting, perhaps combined with a wander along the quayside afterwards, pub lunch and then over to Mangapps Farm in the afternoon.

[t-b-g]

The discussion seems to be to be more about whether a show is clearly in support of a club, clearly in support of a commercial organisation or is set up to look as if it is in support of a club but is actually in support of a commercial organisation.

 

It is rather like all the bags we get through the door asking us to donate clothes to support charities. Some are really to support charities but many are from firms who deal in old clothes and give a tiny percentage of what they earn to the charity. This is usually shown in tiny print on the back.

 

Each of us can make an informed decision if we know which it is.

 

In effect, exhibitors give up their time to attend shows. Now they may just enjoy exhibiting and may not care who is making money out of their efforts. That is fine. But each layout and each exhibitor can only do so many shows and for each one that they do to earn money for a commercial venture, that is one less that they can do at a club show.

 

I, for one, am quite happy if an individual wants to put on a show to put money in their own pocket. All I want is for them to be honest about it and not pretend that they are a club, so that exhibitors and punters can decide if they want to support such a venture.

 

The lines can be a bit blurred sometimes. I note that the Easter show at York is now run by a limited company. The people behind the limited company are the same people who have been involved with previous shows and I would guess that the change has been made to offer financial protection to individuals, as the EMGS did a while ago. So does that make York one of those dreaded "commercial shows"?. Not in my eyes.

[cromptonnut]

Didn't know about a "Reigate" show ... local to me.

 

There's another DD Events though it seems... https://www.facebook.com/ddclubevents/

[andania 213]

The lines can be a bit blurred sometimes. I note that the Easter show at York is now run by a limited company. The people behind the limited company are the same people who have been involved with previous shows and I would guess that the change has been made to offer financial protection to individuals, as the EMGS did a while ago. So does that make York one of those dreaded "commercial shows"?. Not in my eyes.

 

As one of the York 'team' , I can confirm that yes, that is indeed the case. The monies we get in through the door help to cover the cost of running the show, ( hopefully!), and allow us ( again, hopefully )  to do the next show, no more, no less.

Furthermore, it's all done by a network of unpaid volunteers, we're basically doing it 'cos we want to.. 

 

Ken G

[t-b-g]

As one of the York 'team' , I can confirm that yes, that is indeed the case. The monies we get in through the door help to cover the cost of running the show, ( hopefully!), and allow us ( again, hopefully )  to do the next show, no more, no less.

Furthermore, it's all done by a network of unpaid volunteers, we're basically doing it 'cos we want to.. 

 

Ken G

 

And a grand job you do!

 

Cheers,

 

Tony Gee

[cromptonnut]

Well I went along to the Reigate show today and met the "infamous" Dakota Dibben.

 

I'll be honest that it wasn't the best show I've been to, but it certainly wasn't the worst.  But I left satisfied, even if I didn't buy anything (an unusual move for me...).

 

A few suggestions for the future...

 

1) Signs ... definitely need a banner at the entrance, and possibly a sign from the nearby roundabout at least.

2) Parking was a bit of a nightmare but not necessarily your fault as there was football on elsewhere on the site.

3) It was very hot - the heating was on which wasn't necessary, although I accept that wasn't your fault either.

4) It wasn't clear from the advertising that not everything was 'disabled friendly' such as the stage area.

5) You could have used both sides for access for the stage area, one up and one down - would have made things a bit more easier to move around.  Move the advertising banner to the middle of the stage, and move Smarden Maltings up on to the stage where there was an ice cream fridge or something, then move the other layout on the lower level to the middle.

6) I thought £5 entry should have included some sort of programme even if it was just a sheet of A4 paper giving details of the exhibitions.

 

As I said, nothing "bad" as such about the show and if there's another I will probably go along again.  Good to meet you anyway.

[Colin]

I exhibited at a DD show a year or two ago - I was certainly made welcome, help was offered with regard to setting up, lunch was provided and I was paid my expenses - pretty much in keeping with most, but not all, of the other shows I have taken my layouts to over the last 20-odd years.

The venue was OK but due to its location (school in a small cul de sac) the show didn't seem very well attended probably due to a lack of casual passers by just "dropping in". It was run for the benefit of a charity, I forget which one.

I've been invited to a couple of Dakota's other shows but was unable to attend due to holiday/family commitments, but would happily go to another. Personally I applaud his enthusiasm, organising an exhibition isn't something I would care to try!

[cromptonnut]

I have organised shows in the past and certainly it isn't an easy job.  We were adults 186 and 187 according to the entry raffle-style tickets so I'd say not bad throughput at that point for a one day show at 11am on a Sunday.

[Deltic]

Organising Exhibitions - of all sizes - is not always a 'walk in the park'. But it does appear that some do not heed feedback from previous events that they have held. I was concerned at comments I heard from a person whom attended. The Health & Safety of those exhibiting & attending should not be overlooked. But as I was not there I could not comment, but if true then it would be of concern. I would also ask the question Who is Maldon?. Publicity material seen could have led the Public to believe that it was organised - therefore supporting - a local Maldon Club. The local newspaper also called it the largest in the Region? they probably got that information from Maldon.

[dasatcopthorne]

Organising Exhibitions - of all sizes - is not always a 'walk in the park'. But it does appear that some do not heed feedback from previous events that they have held. I was concerned at comments I heard from a person whom attended. The Health & Safety of those exhibiting & attending should not be overlooked. But as I was not there I could not comment, but if true then it would be of concern. I would also ask the question Who is Maldon?. Publicity material seen could have led the Public to believe that it was organised - therefore supporting - a local Maldon Club. The local newspaper also called it the largest in the Region? they probably got that information from Maldon.

 

Once again, this is in line with the original posting.

 

Could some people think that the Local Authority are running these shows?

 

Dave

 

[Talltim]

Reigate is obviously more up to date than Maldon tho, colour photography and everything!

[Tony_S]

I had intended to go to the Maldon event. However my dear wife remarked that it seemed a perfect day to remove the unsightly tree stump that was where she wanted her rhubarb to go.

Perhaps next year?

[Chris116]

I had intended to go to the Maldon event. However my dear wife remarked that it seemed a perfect day to remove the unsightly tree stump that was where she wanted her rhubarb to go.

Perhaps next year?

Well there was nothing to stop her removing a tree stump if that is what she wanted to do. You could have had a nice time at the show keeping out of her way!

[cp409067]

Once again, this is in line with the original posting.

 

Could some people think that the Local Authority are running these shows?

 

Dave

20170227_122542.jpg

 

20170227_122651.jpg

 

*

 

Two questions would seem to be relevant.

 

[1]   Is it ethical to pose as an entire town?

 

[2]   Does it contravene the Trade Descriptions Act to advertise as someone (or a body, or a town) that one is not?

 

 

 

CP