railroadbill Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 This is how my triang repaint came out spraying Precision enamel paint. Here's a very small part of a print of a C Hamilton Ellis painting - don't think I'm in breach of copyright with such a small area but I'll remove it if requested by a mod. This is preserved tri-composite brake at NRM York last year. 6474 is actually the Southern Railway number it carried from February 1926. It was originally 847 in LSWR days. When it was withdrawn in May 1948 it was repainted in LSWR livery to take part in celebrations for the centenary of Waterloo station along with the preserved T3 class. The NRM have now restored the coach to exhibition state once more and obviously have kept the "Waterloo" SR number. Rather nice gesture, really. It is 56' and completed December 1903. Here it is displayed with M7 245 in Drummond livery. And from the other side from ground level in low light. So depending on the light, this is a difficult colour to be sure about. C Hamilton Ellis wrote that ""The colour scheme was without parallel. While the upper panels were officially described as salmon, and were rather like tinned salmon when new, they weathered into a terracotta brown after about a week". Having looked at the NRM pics again, I'm now thinking that white roofs would look the part. I was going to try a mid grey, on the assumption that white roofs just wouldn't stay white for long. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Having looked at the NRM pics again, I'm now thinking that white roofs would look the part. I was going to try a mid grey, on the assumption that white roofs just wouldn't stay white for long. Unless you want them to be in ex-works condition, then some shade of grey would be appropriate. The longer they had been in service the darker (and 'sootier') the grey Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Re the ex triang Clerestories. Next stage is the new roofs. I cut the centre clerestory section off one roof with the intention of fitting the roof part into the middle of the main roof. However, the profile doesn't quite match. I was going to try that on one of the brakes to give a retro "this is what it would have looked like if Triang/Hornby had produced an LSWR coach" look. But I'll use the cut down roof section as a template for plasticard roofs instead. The compartment coaches are fairly close to the right shape. Went to a local model railway exhibition today and one demonstration stand had an O gauge model of an Adams 0380 class 4-4-0. It was in a green Adams goods livery and the guy who'd built it said he'd used a paint made for yachts as it was the closest he could get to the colour he wanted. Did look good, maybe as the prototype had 5' 7" driving wheels like the 415 tank, modifying an Oxford or Hornby model might be worth another look? It did have solid "steamroller" front bogie wheels. I thought that looked really unusual.. The builder pointed out that solid bogie wheels were something that didn't catch on it Britain, however if you looked at an American loco like a Union Pacific Big Boy solid carrying wheels would be normal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 A further R-T-R LSWR possibility. Now found that Hornby produced their Terrier in LSWR livery in 2011 as an exclusive club model. A friend on another forum gave me this link to a finished e-bay auction which does have a good picture of one. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R3046-LSWR-Terrier-Class-A1X-039-735-039-Collectors-Club-Special-Edition-/191989398867?nma=true&si=IaHFjs73snMB9OzVgwZKkexCCXE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 They must be fairly rare, hadn't come across one before. An option would be to find a cheaper Terrier and repaint it - h'mm. One disadvantage is that they weren't actually LSWR locos, and only had very localised use, on the other hand 734 still survives as W8 Freshwater on the Isle of Wight and had quite a history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 A further R-T-R LSWR possibility. Now found that Hornby produced their Terrier in LSWR livery in 2011 as an exclusive club model. A friend on another forum gave me this link to a finished e-bay auction which does have a good picture of one. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-R3046-LSWR-Terrier-Class-A1X-039-735-039-Collectors-Club-Special-Edition-/191989398867?nma=true&si=IaHFjs73snMB9OzVgwZKkexCCXE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 They must be fairly rare, hadn't come across one before. An option would be to find a cheaper Terrier and repaint it - h'mm. One disadvantage is that they weren't actually LSWR locos, and only had very localised use, on the other hand 734 still survives as W8 Freshwater on the Isle of Wight and had quite a history. Terriers were used on the Lyme Regis branch to May 1907, replaced by O2s, which in turn were replaced by Radials 1913-4, but O2s did assist on the branch thereafter. That Triang cut n' shut conversion I posted will give you a 2-coach set for the branch from c.1909. So you can justify up to 3 Radials, and an O2, and do a cheapy conversion for coaches for the Lyme Regis branch or some fictional variant. If a fictional variant, stretch reality to overlap a Terrier. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 We have one of the Terriers in the Ormesby fleet. The livery is very nicely applied, but we find it struggles on the hand made pointwork as Hornby have made the back to backs a bit tight. With outside brake rigging as well we're all a bit loath to start levering wheels backwards and forwards on axles, so it probably doesn't get the use it should. We were given two others with the railway, so we're not exactly underendowed with them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) Thoughts on LSWR salmon. The starting point was probably slightly lighter than the NRM tri-comp. Then atmospheric pollutants would impact on the varnish, darkening the colour. Then sunlight would leach out the red pigment, so the coach would slowly lighten towards a cream colour. Whatever we say about Claude Hamilton Ellis as a historian, he did have excellent colour perception. There are two well known paintings by CHE of LSWR coaches. Very different pigment, but they are both correct. Bill Edited January 24, 2021 by bbishop Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
autocoach Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Not exactly RTR but a fairly easy kit to assemble, the long awaited Cambrian D 1410 10 T Van appears to now be available. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116368-cambrian-lswr-diagram-1410-van-kit-now-in-production/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Emery Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Kernow O2 Please excuse me if this post is slightly off-topic, but a group of LSWR modellers seemed just the place to ask; I model the LSWR in eatly Grouping days, and wondered if any of your ardent pre-grouping LSWR modellers had bought a Kernow O2 in 'Southern' livery, and were now thinking of disposing of it? If so, could you please send me a private message (PM)? I apoear to have missed-out on this version. Many Thanks, Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted January 23, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2021 I must say I was rather looking forward to the arrival of the new Hornby T9 in LSWR 'sage green' (R3863), which is how it appears on initial publicity images of the model, eg https://uk.Hornby.com/products/lswr-class-t9-4-4-0-120-era-2-r3863 but I see Kernow have recently posted a photo of the new T9 but now it seems to be in 'pea green'? https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/66899/R3863-Hornby-Class-T9-4-4-0-Steam-Locomotive-number-120-LSWR it looks decidely more lurid in pea green to my eyes, but presumably this livery is correct for a T9? cheers, Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Unfinished project from a while ago, a GBL T9 in Urie green. The boiler (that now has separate handrails) was sprayed with Precision paints P408 LSWR Urie loco green. This (hopefully!) is the green used from Oct 1917 to Dec 1922 according to HMRS livery register. That's the same as the first pics you linked to, for a late war to grouping loco. The Kernow ones are definitely a lighter green. When preserved, 120 was painted into a green livery, so perhaps it's supposed to be that? 120 seems to have a quite light green livery (on a railtour 24 6 1962). Only picture I can find. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 The GBL model was based on the Hornby Ltd Ed. in Urie green. That is based on a livery worn in preservation. Only 6 T9s were superheated by the SW, the first not having the boiler pitch raised, but quite a number followed in 1923-124 and many of these seem to have retained LSWR livery for a year or two. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD85 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Can someone please explain to me why it is apparently so hard to backdate a T9 to as built condition. As far as I can tell all one has to do is shorten the smokebox and add wing plates and the cross boiler tube panels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 22 minutes ago, SD85 said: Can someone please explain to me why it is apparently so hard to backdate a T9 to as built condition. As far as I can tell all one has to do is shorten the smokebox and add wing plates and the cross boiler tube panels. I don't think there is any reason. Your ideas seem perfectly doable, and I have contemplated doing the same, albeit with a Crownline white metal kit. It is the Class 700 0-6-0 that is hard to backdate, as the boiler was pitched higher in the rebuilding, whereas the T9 pitch remained the same. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD85 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Thanks, much appreciated. I suppose I was a little confused by the opening post of this thread which implied the T9 would be hard to convert. It's a fairly obvious conversion that I'm a bit surprised hasn't been done more often, although not as many people operate pre Grouping layouts. Still, there were unsuperheated T9s running in SR days too, so anyone modelling the 1920s could also do such a task. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 It may be that the author of the first post mixed up their info about the T9 and 700 class - the 700 class is rather harder to backdate as the superheated boilers were raised in pitch by (I think?) 9 inches, so it's not just a case of shortening the smokebox. The fact that the boiler bottom on the Hornby 700 class is cast as part of the chassis as the motor mount makes things even trickier. I'm in the process of backdating a Hornby 700 class, and it's certainly not just a repaint job. I've 3D printed a new shorter smokebox with wingplates, using a Brassmasters chimney and Drummond smokebox door. Also had to remove the oil pipes running diagonally down the outside of the boiler, and I'm fitting 3D printed splasher sandboxes. 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, SD85 said: Can someone please explain to me why it is apparently so hard to backdate a T9 to as built condition. As far as I can tell all one has to do is shorten the smokebox and add wing plates and the cross boiler tube panels. 41 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said: It may be that the author of the first post mixed up their info about the T9 and 700 class - the 700 class is rather harder to backdate as the superheated boilers were raised in pitch by (I think?) 9 inches, so it's not just a case of shortening the smokebox. The fact that the boiler bottom on the Hornby 700 class is cast as part of the chassis as the motor mount makes things even trickier. I'm in the process of backdating a Hornby 700 class, and it's certainly not just a repaint job. I've 3D printed a new shorter smokebox with wingplates, using a Brassmasters chimney and Drummond smokebox door. Also had to remove the oil pipes running diagonally down the outside of the boiler, and I'm fitting 3D printed splasher sandboxes. Nile did a back date of the 700. The difference in boiler pitch meant he had to take out the motor and re-mount it. I would have expected a similar issue with the T9, because the boiler pitch on all but the first superheated rebuild was higher, so, Linny, I'd really love to understand what you have discovered doing yours, which looks lovely, by the way. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Edwardian said: I would have expected a similar issue with the T9, because the boiler pitch on all but the first superheated rebuild was higher, so, Linny, I'd really love to understand what you have discovered doing yours, which looks lovely, by the way. Bradley makes the specific point that the superheated boiler on the T9 was at the same pitch as the original, unlike all the other superheated classes. The two GA drawings in his Wild Swan book on the subject reflect this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Here is a T9 hacked about a bit as a drawn up but never built HR Peter Drummond design. The fittings are Highland but the basic loco is T9 with cut back smokebox - easily enough done as it is a separate plastic fitting - makes one wonder if this was perhaps an option thought about by Hornby...I must say, to my eyes, it looks far better in its original form. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted January 23, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2021 9 hours ago, railroadbill said: Unfinished project from a while ago, a GBL T9 in Urie green. The boiler (that now has separate handrails) was sprayed with Precision paints P408 LSWR Urie loco green. This (hopefully!) is the green used from Oct 1917 to Dec 1922 according to HMRS livery register. That's the same as the first pics you linked to, for a late war to grouping loco. The Kernow ones are definitely a lighter green. When preserved, 120 was painted into a green livery, so perhaps it's supposed to be that? 120 seems to have a quite light green livery (on a railtour 24 6 1962). Only picture I can find. Whether you can gauge anything from this black and white photo taken 1963 I don't know. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) Correct for 120 as originally preserved in the 1960s. It never previously carried LSWR livery in that condition as it wasn't rebuilt until 1927. The reason it's never carried it since restoration in the 1980s and has only been in BR black and SR olive. 120 was a substitute, as the one planned for preservation was 119 which was the SR Royal Train engine, but it was in poor condition. However like City Of Truro it earnt it's keep by working normal trains until finally withdrawn in October 1963. Just need a Caledonian Single for it to push around. Jason Edited January 23, 2021 by Steamport Southport 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 39 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said: Bradley makes the specific point that the superheated boiler on the T9 was at the same pitch as the original, unlike all the other superheated classes. The two GA drawings in his Wild Swan book on the subject reflect this. Yes, I see that. I had misremembered. Probably the only Drummond class superheated without an increase in boiler pitch. That is helpful to bear in mind, I may attempt some back-dating in due course. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 No 119 was actually scrapped about a decade earlier. Bill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) Steamport Southport suggested a Caledonian single to go with the T9.... Excursion train from Victoria to Sheffield Park running to the Bluebell railway with preserved Caledonian single and T9. September 15 1963. Edited January 25, 2021 by railroadbill 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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