Hornby Class 87 - Confirmed Newly Tooled Version for 2017 !

[APT Fan]

15 hours ago, NS Peak said:

The service sheet is only for the 8pin models there is a different updated service sheet for then 21 pin models.  The sheet only covers the initial release which is why it only shows a single pcb.  The sheet does show different pantographs and multiple working cables base£ on the models with only R3580 not having a Brecknell Willis pan

 

R30030 IS a 21 pin model? I'm referring to the parts list, bottom right and that is the latest data sheet from July '21. Anyway it doesn't matter, I'll work it out myself as its clearly inaccurate. Thanks.

Edited January 3 by APT Fan

[Matt]

Sounds about right… a couple of my 60s had service sheets for class 60 one side and class 31 details upside down on the back…

[ColinB]

On 26/07/2023 at 13:49, adb968008 said:

 

phone Bachmann spares and buy a class 90 pantograph from them ?

 

£20 last time I bought one.  [ Bachmann havent updated their spares site in a while, they have more than the website shows ]
 

One thing Bachmann, Heljan and Hornby have all got the same is the position for the insulators.. ive swapped a few several times.

 

With the 90 just snip the end that goes into the body for the lifting arm, unless you want to fit a servo too.. (Bachmann can also sell you that).

This is really useful information. Thank you for sharing. With Bachmann I have always just mailed them for spare parts, they are very good normally, replying within a day. Not like another company I could mention. I remember buying an AL5 one off of them.

[APT Fan]

On 27/05/2023 at 20:36, ColinB said:

Yes, I found that a normal 21 pin decoder was slightly too wide and another fault was that it was hanging upside down off the connector, never a very good idea, plus you have to remove the main circuit board to get to it. I assume a HM7000 must be slightly narrower. I did eventually slightly file down the 21 pin decoder, it was a spare LaisDCC one I had, so not much lost if I damaged it. Fortunately it still worked. Not sure I would want to do the same with £120 sound decoder.

 

I fitted an 8 pin decoder to the underside of the PCB and then fabricated a cowling to go over the drive shaft to guard against any potential contact between the two (see post below).

 

My assessment was that there isn't enough clearance to be able to fit/sit a decoder on top of the PCB without it fouling the roof which is why I opted for underside fitting. I think that is the reason why I've never had a problem re-fitting the body as you don't have to really 'push' down to get the clips to re-locate in the slots.

 

[ThaneofFife]

87009 is now on offer at Rails for £139.99 it has the flaw with the red stripe but at that price I might be tempted to grab one.  Returned my original model whenthey first dropped but got my £192 back however this reduced price is pretty darn good compared to the £217 RRP.

[XChris]

Is it me that still hopes for more liveries from this tooling. Or even more numbers?

 

Obviously, there’s modern(ish) stuff that hasn’t been done yet, I would think there are a whole load of second release of virgin, BR Blue or IC identities?

 

Id like to see 87012 in NSE, 87002 in the blue it carried before the sleeper livery. Does anyone think a GBRF or DRS livery would sell? Then there’s 87002 as it is now as well which would sell. 

[wombatofludham]

It's Hornby so unless it boils water I suspect it'll be next century before they do any more livery variants.

Personally I would like to see some more blue but without names as first built, there's also IC executive without the jumper boxes which a couple of locos still carried in the early 1990s.  There's also the early IC Swallow with full yellow ends, with and without jumper boxes.  For a class of 36 there are more varieties than Heinz.

You are probably right about GBRf and DRS as they seem to sell well whatever the subject, plus they worked alongside Pendolini and Voyagers for a while which would appeal to some.

[ColinB]

1 hour ago, wombatofludham said:

It's Hornby so unless it boils water I suspect it'll be next century before they do any more livery variants.

Personally I would like to see some more blue but without names as first built, there's also IC executive without the jumper boxes which a couple of locos still carried in the early 1990s.  There's also the early IC Swallow with full yellow ends, with and without jumper boxes.  For a class of 36 there are more varieties than Heinz.

You are probably right about GBRf and DRS as they seem to sell well whatever the subject, plus they worked alongside Pendolini and Voyagers for a while which would appeal to some.

Trouble is with Hornby class 87s is unless you can get them heavily discounted, they are such bad value foe money. Now I understand that if you want a class 87 then you have no choice. I recently bought the Hornby City of Glasgow at 10% below retail and ok the paint job is good which is why I bought it but if you compare it with the Accurascale class 92s, the Bachmann class 90s and even the Heljan class 86s there is no comparison. All the others have better lighting functions and two of them have electrically operated pantographs, so even if you don't want these functions, they are either the same price or cheaper. The Hornby product like a lot of their range too old, they do a new tool and them leave it for twenty years. Upgrading lighting functions is relatively cheap generally just an upgrade of an existing PCB, so not a major retooling cost. 

[ThaneofFife]

Id say to improve the 87 they need metal pantographs, paint application needs to be watched on future releases and the lighting function suite needs improving.

Id like to see those cab lights on separate functions plus some corridor lights......they need to catch up with the standards of Bachmann, accurascale, Heljan and cavalex. Not fuused about a dcc pantograph.

[wombatofludham]

Might help as well if they designed the thing to take DCC without having to remove the PCB board and stick it in upside down.  Some consideration for noise fitting would also be a good idea.  Heljan do it.  Bachmann do it.  Accurascale do it.  Hornby? "That'll do, now, let's get back to the Little Fartingbury and Miss Marpleshire Peckett".

The idea that in 2024 you need to perform open heart surgery to fit a plain 21 pin chip, and heaven knows what else to get them to make noise, really isn't on, but it does play into the arguments some of us have about Hornby's engagement with non-steam modellers.

[jonnyuk]

2 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Might help as well if they designed the thing to take DCC without having to remove the PCB board and stick it in upside down.  Some consideration for noise fitting would also be a good idea.  Heljan do it.  Bachmann do it.  Accurascale do it.  Hornby? "That'll do, now, let's get back to the Little Fartingbury and Miss Marpleshire Peckett".

The idea that in 2024 you need to perform open heart surgery to fit a plain 21 pin chip, and heaven knows what else to get them to make noise, really isn't on, but it does play into the arguments some of us have about Hornby's engagement with non-steam modellers.

Your statement about non steam modellers might of held true for some models designed years ago (but still been released such as the 87) but the new non steam stuff coming through with 21 pin sockets are fine, the newer hst point in case.

[ColinB]

6 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

Id say to improve the 87 they need metal pantographs, paint application needs to be watched on future releases and the lighting function suite needs improving.

Id like to see those cab lights on separate functions plus some corridor lights......they need to catch up with the standards of Bachmann, accurascale, Heljan and cavalex. Not fuused about a dcc pantograph.

Totally agree. I was so disappointed with my City of Glasgow.

[ColinB]

5 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Might help as well if they designed the thing to take DCC without having to remove the PCB board and stick it in upside down.  Some consideration for noise fitting would also be a good idea.  Heljan do it.  Bachmann do it.  Accurascale do it.  Hornby? "That'll do, now, let's get back to the Little Fartingbury and Miss Marpleshire Peckett".

The idea that in 2024 you need to perform open heart surgery to fit a plain 21 pin chip, and heaven knows what else to get them to make noise, really isn't on, but it does play into the arguments some of us have about Hornby's engagement with non-steam modellers.

Even the steam isn't that good. Look at the 8F, Railroad smokebox, big hole in the firebox where 40 years ago there was a fireglow bulb all for the amazing price of £250. Even with their retooled items with the decoder in the tender, try fitting a HM7000 plus a Powerbank without having machine stuff away. On one of the new tooled loco the only way to fit the "stay alive" was to rewire SMD tantalum capacitors so they fitted in a gap under the 21 pin socket and for a Powerbank that is really needed for a HM7000 I had to remove the supplied speaker enclosure and replace it with a Road and Rails thin speaker. Bachmann, Accurascale and most others it is just insert the 21 pin decoder and that is it. Generally they even include the speaker. I like Hornby mechanisms but the competition is catching up.

I had forgot about the cheap plastic pantograph on the class 87.

[GordonC]

20 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

It's Hornby so unless it boils water I suspect it'll be next century before they do any more livery variants.

Personally I would like to see some more blue but without names as first built, there's also IC executive without the jumper boxes which a couple of locos still carried in the early 1990s.  There's also the early IC Swallow with full yellow ends, with and without jumper boxes.  For a class of 36 there are more varieties than Heinz.

You are probably right about GBRf and DRS as they seem to sell well whatever the subject, plus they worked alongside Pendolini and Voyagers for a while which would appeal to some.

 

There's an absolute ton of livery variations that could be possible even just within intercity livery

• the early IC Executive variation with yellow cabsides to the cab windows and nameplates centrally on the bodyside on the stripes (e.g. 87012/87018)
• The Later IC Executive with the cabsides split between dark grey and yellow but yellow front up to the bottom of the cab windscreens
• Intercity Mainline with the livery coming right to the cab front and full yellow front

But I suspect Hornby would be wanting to sell them for a higher price than the market will allow. I'd really have thought the 87009 would fly off the shelves even at full price, but a dodgy livery application and possibly jumper/MW box configuration may have limited that.

[ThaneofFife]

Yeah,few in their right mind would have paid almost £200 with that red stripe mistake apart from those weathering them up maybe which would lessen the effect of the different reds......it was poor on Hornbys part to sign that off in the first place......almost like lets just nobody will spot the difference.

If we are to pay top dollar these things have to be right.

 

[GordonC]

7 minutes ago, ThaneofFife said:

Yeah,few in their right mind would have paid almost £200 with that red stripe mistake apart from those weathering them up maybe which would lessen the effect of the different reds......it was poor on Hornbys part to sign that off in the first place......almost like lets just nobody will spot the difference.

If we are to pay top dollar these things have to be right.

 

 

I did buy one initally purely because its my favourite livery combination on the 87s, but I did think the red stripe mistake was shockingly poor and while Hornby offered to 'correct' it, I expect they would have gone darker where I think the bright red looked better and intended fixing it myself at a later date.

[97406]

I've used Fox Transfers IC lining on every executive liveried electric I have including all my Heljan 86s as the lower edge of the grey band seemed a little too high on them.

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/transfers/intercity-executive-mainline-ex-works-loco-coach-lining

 

 

 

[Marcyg]

So, I took the plunge and bought one of the discounted 87s, originally a preorder, but when Hornby upped their prices, I cancelled it. Glad I waited! What decoders are people using in the 21 pin models? Looked back through this thread but couldn't find a definitive answer. Does the chassis need trimming? Thanks

[ColinB]

42 minutes ago, Marcyg said:

So, I took the plunge and bought one of the discounted 87s, originally a preorder, but when Hornby upped their prices, I cancelled it. Glad I waited! What decoders are people using in the 21 pin models? Looked back through this thread but couldn't find a definitive answer. Does the chassis need trimming? Thanks

I used a LaisDCC one but I had to trim it down.

[ThaneofFife]

87006 Large Logo now on sale for £139.99 direct from Hornby.....almost half price.