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Oxford N7

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I remember those days.

 

When nearly everyone wanted Big Four and the BR liveried models were heavily discounted. The same with the diesels where the modern modellers wanted the blue ones and it was the green versions that were cheaper.

 

Funny how it is apparently now the opposite.

 

 

 

Jason

It's called demographics.

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Oddly enough, it sort of hints that an unpainted model might serve for the (pre-)Group era, and then customers can give it any livery they like. Only problem I can see with that is the warranty claims if the model goes Pete Tong, leading to a dispute over it no longer being in the form that it left the retailer.......unless perhaps the guarantee covers the mechanical parts only.

If somebody can finish an unpainted model, they can just as easily repaint whatever version is being flogged off at the biggest discount.

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Oddly enough, it sort of hints that an unpainted model might serve for the (pre-)Group era, and then customers can give it any livery they like.

 

I suspect painting would stump a lot of people. Limited Editions at a price premium might be the answer for pre-grouping liveries, but of course it would also smoke out those who don't take kindly to a price premium.

Edited by coachmann

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My annoyance is not against what the manufacturers offer us. My annoyance is that when a loco/coach/wagon like this is announced, the BR crowd immediately start flexing their majority muscles and complaining that the model does not quite fit what they do. And that runs the risk of discouraging companies from doing ventures like this in the future and just sticking to how the locos looked under BR.

 

Why cant people just be positive about announcements like this?

 

 

You make a good point, and, despite my disappointment at not getting the N7 I wanted, I'm pleased that the pre-grouping fans are getting a decent shake of the stick for once.  And if it's true that a round-topped version will eventually appear, then we'll all be happy.

 

One possible caveat - as one of those who much preferred the Hornby Radial on account of the space provided under the boiler, I'm hoping that Oxford raises its game in this regard for the N7. 

Edited by Downer

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If they don't. then I await Hornby doing an announcement for it, and put in my pre-order!

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

Sorry, Peter that's probably not going to happen, unfortunately.

 

Paul

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It's called demographics.

 

Crikey!

 

Is there no cure?

 

I think BR-modellers, at least, should be fairly secure in the belief that their preferred version of the N7 will eventually emerge.

 

I believe that both Hornby and Oxford have made Southern modellers wait for an olive green Adams Radial.

 

I have waited patiently ever since the release of the new-tooled Hornby Castle, some years ago now, for the later variant to appear in pre-war GW livery (it was always available in BR livery).  Finally, this version/livery combination has been announced in the form of Drysllwyn Castle.  I am very pleased.

 

It is good to be at the head of the queue for a change, though!

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It is good to be at the head of the queue for a change, though!

Narrrr, they are probably just having a little joke. Just when you have got your hopes up, they'll blow you a big raspberry, and announce it's due out in the usual BR drab after all! :jester:

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There are some fantastic pre grouping liveries that could generate a market. I'll bet there were a lot of BR steam modellers that bought Bachmanns SE&CR C class because it looked so good. I was a bit late off the mark on that one , I certainly considered it, even though I'd have nothing to run it with and it's completely outside my area (Scotland) or time period. On the other hand there is the LB&SCR E4 that's still sitting on shelves , although Bachmann price increases happened in between.

 

Sounds like Oxford have it covered though with GER through to early BR . I'm sure late BR will appear soon. And surely this is the best way for all. Models that are pre grouping that lasted through to Late BR , like a Caley 812 !

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I'm honestly happy about this release, now I just need to find a place to order some GER suburban coaches and hope they can ship to the states.

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A bit of info, taken from Yeadon's Register:

 

As far as I can tell, only three of the original N7/GEs (9602, 9609 and 9618) still had Belpaire fireboxes at Nationalisation, and all three were exchanged for roundtops before 1949 was out.  I don't know if any received BRITISH RAILWAYS or early crest branding.

 

Of the 46 N7/1s and N7/2s still with Belpaire fireboxes at Nationalisation, 17 had lost them by the end of 1950 and a further 15 by the end of 1953, leaving 14 still with them.

 

These, with the dates they lost them, and their allocation when they did so, were:

69624 12/55 30A

69626 4/54 30A

69627 9/56 30A

69629 4/56 34B

69631 3/55 34C

69637 10/55 34C

69645 5/55 30A

69646 5/54 30A

69662 2/55 30A

69683 12/54 30A

69689 3/57 32D

69690 1/55 32A

69694 11/54 37B

69695 12/58 30A

 

Hope that's useful. Apologies for any mistakes. 

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.....surely this is the best way for all. Models that are pre grouping that lasted through to Late BR , like a Caley 812 !

There is certainly a mostly-untapped seam of Scottish engines and rolling stock....

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A bit of info, taken from Yeadon's Register:

 

As far as I can tell, only three of the original N7/GEs (9602, 9609 and 9618) still had Belpaire fireboxes at Nationalisation, and all three were exchanged for roundtops before 1949 was out.  I don't know if any received BRITISH RAILWAYS or early crest branding.

 

Of the 46 N7/1s and N7/2s still with Belpaire fireboxes at Nationalisation, 17 had lost them by the end of 1950 and a further 15 by the end of 1953, leaving 14 still with them.

 

These, with the dates they lost them, and their allocation when they did so, were:

69624 12/55 30A

69626 4/54 30A

69627 9/56 30A

69629 4/56 34B

69631 3/55 34C

69637 10/55 34C

69645 5/55 30A

69646 5/54 30A

69662 2/55 30A

69683 12/54 30A

69689 3/57 32D

69690 1/55 32A

69694 11/54 37B

69695 12/58 30A

 

Hope that's useful. Apologies for any mistakes. 

The Winter 1955/6 ABC lists just four locos still retaining Belpaire fireboxes by then, and tallies with your list: 

 

N7/1: 69627 (30A)

 

N7/2: 69689 (32D), 69690 (32A), 69695 (37B)

 

John

 

EDIT: Given their geographical distribution, these might provide good choices for Oxford to do BR livery models from the tooling so far announced.

Edited by Dunsignalling

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The Winter 1955/6 ABC lists just four locos still retaining Belpaire fireboxes by then, and tallies with your list: 

 

N7/1: 69627 (30A)

 

N7/2: 69689 (32D), 69690 (32A), 69695 (37B)

 Further to which, 69689 and 69695 retained their Belpaire boilers to withdrawal from service for scrapping, the earliest of the class to be withdrawn.

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 Further to which, 69689 and 69695 retained their Belpaire boilers to withdrawal from service for scrapping, the earliest of the class to be withdrawn.

Making them the prime candidates for BR-livery models from the announced tooling.

 

John

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Dunsignalling: 'Making them the prime candidates for BR-livery models from the announced tooling.'
 

 

Ah, but only if the cab height and other differences don't prove problematic. I suspect that the only BR ones they can do from the planned tooling are the three N7/GEs which I mention at the beginning of my last post, and that they can't find photos of any of them - hence the stopgap use of the fictitious E9621 number. 

Edited by Downer

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Dunsignalling: 'Making them the prime candidates for BR-livery models from the announced tooling.'

 

 

Ah, but only if the cab height and other differences don't prove problematic. I suspect that the only BR ones they can do from the planned tooling are the three N7/GEs which I mention at the beginning of my last post, and that they can't find photos of any of them - hence the stopgap use of the fictitious E9621 number. 

That's because they got their BR identities concurrent with getting their round tops in 1948/49!

 

Chris KT

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Dunsignalling: 'Making them the prime candidates for BR-livery models from the announced tooling.'

 

 

Ah, but only if the cab height and other differences don't prove problematic. I suspect that the only BR ones they can do from the planned tooling are the three N7/GEs which I mention at the beginning of my last post, and that they can't find photos of any of them - hence the stopgap use of the fictitious E9621 number. 

So 69627 should be OK in BR lined out black with early totem?

 

John

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There was a discussion on GE blue on the Oxford announcement topic, but the response is probably more relevant here insofar as the liveries suitable for the model are concerned.

 

No.1001 was the only class member to be painted ultramarine, as a grey livery was adopted in 1915.  Interestingly No. 1000 was out-shopped in photographic grey, which it retained until c.1920.

 

All the others were out-shopped in war-time grey. 

 

The photo on the Oxford site (http://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/collections/oxford-rail/products/ger-k85-n7-0-6-2-no-1002-or76n7001) is the post-war version of the grey livery with the large train reporting numbers on the tank side, so if this livery is produced, it is good from c.1921.

 

I've got a very nice ultramarine from Precision, which l haven't to date used other than to test it on a scrap of Plasticard.  I'm sure I've got a postcard of 1001 somewhere, and, as long as it doesn't have the faults that bedeviled the Adams & Dean Goods, l shall definitely get one (at least!)

 

Fingers crossed that they get this one right!!  It also gives me time to source coaches that could be 'cut and shut' to produce GER suburban stock. 

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So 69627 should be OK in BR lined out black with early totem?

 

John

 

 

I don't think so, but I'm not sure - I think I'm going slowly mad trying to work out the permutations.  If they're modelling the N7/GE, then I think that only the three I mentioned ((6)9602, (6)9609) and (6)9618) will fit the bill, and then only for a year or so.  All locos after 67622 had left hand drive and lower cabs and fixtures.

Edited by Downer

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The more I think about it, the stranger it seems that Oxford have gone with a Belpaire firebox version. 

 

Perhaps they've recognised Big H's policy of only doing round-topped fireboxes on GE locos, and are cleverly avoiding an inevitable head-to-head?

 

The Nim.

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Making them the prime candidates for BR-livery models from the announced tooling.

 

John

I don't think so, but I'm not sure - I think I'm going slowly mad trying to work out the permutations.  If they're modelling the N7/GE, then I think that only the three I mentioned ((6)9602, (6)9609) and (6)9618) will fit the bill, and then only for a year or so.  All locos after 67622 had left hand drive and lower cabs and fixtures.

From Yeadon it would appear when rebuilt they then got their BR number. So I don't think any N7/GE Belpaire firebox locos got BR livery.

 

Paul

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Anyone seen my wallet?   I last saw it scuttling off into a dark corner making a whimpering sound...

 

Perhaps my BR(GE) branch can manage without one....  :no:

 

I'm GW in South Wales man myself, but even I know that's just delusional...

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There's always the (considerable) possibility that Oxford will produce the round topped boiler version, whe'll have to wait and see.

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From Yeadon it would appear when rebuilt they then got their BR number. So I don't think any N7/GE Belpaire firebox locos got BR livery.

 

Paul

The following three out of the original GER N7s received round-top firboxes after nationalisation (confirming Downer's post): 69602 (June 1949), 69609 (August 1948) and 69618 (July 1948).  This was so soon after nationalisation that, as you say, they probably didn't get BR livery before being rebuilt.

Edited by teaky

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I've always been of the opinion that I'll model what I want to model, available or not. However the announcement of the C53/J70, and then this, coupled with the J15 released not so long ago is sorely tempting to to model something simply because it is available RTR. Hmm, a nice GE early 20s Essex home counties commuter town terminus, connecting with a roadside tramway,...

At least I can console myself with the fact that the coaches will probably need to be kit or scratch built and the J15/Y14 needs backdating :angel:

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