N gauge GWR / BR King class 4-6-0 locomotive

[Karhedron]

Hi Matt,

 

Lots of areas for change, depending on costs from China,but alternate height cabs, chimneys, etc all built into OO version and it would be nice to do this with the proposed N gauge version.

However, I do not see 15 different models offered to crowdfunders, so this exercise is handy to gauge some opinion regarding livery, logo's etc.

 

So offering 2 as preserved gives us 3,or at a push 4, to play around with.

Cheers

Dave

Thanks for the info. I suspect that KGV's celebrity status and bell will always make it a popular choice in any livery. Spreading the preserved and non-preserved versions between the different livery periods will probably help generate the widest appeal.

 

On that note, I would recommend offering KGV in historical rather than preserved condition. The reason for this is that although it was the first steam loco to run on the mainline in preservation, it has not done so for more than 30 years which is why it retains its original height cab and bonnet.

 

I think that KE 1&2 probably offer more scope as preserved models due to their much longer careers on the mainline since the end of Steam.

 

Just my tuppence worth. I will be getting one for sure anyway.

[Hedfordtfc]

That is a good point Dave, since this is laser-scanned, does that mean the model will reflect the preserved condition with lowered cab/bonnet and double blastpipe chimney?

 

Not a deal-breaker as far as I am concerned but I was wondering how much flexibility there is to accommodate such detail differences in the tooling.

I rather think this depends which King was scanned and when. 

AIUI if 6000 was scanned at STEAM in Swindon there wouldn't be an issue. If 6023 was scanned prior to the start of 2016 then again I feel the loco was "dressed properly" I believe it is only since the repairs were done to the loco after it's running in at the North Norfolk and Great Central Railways that the loco received the cut down fittings.

 

Here is a link to an image of it working on the Great Central with "authentic" boilerware.http://www.gwsmainline.org/z2013photos/2013_gcr_05.jpg

[Wheatley]

True but it's been left dangling there is the possibility of an OO one going ahead. All we need is for someone to clarify if and when

I notice this hasn't been answered yet. I.e. by someone who actually knows the answer as opposed to someone speculating wildly and with no more clue than the rest of us.

[Snowwolflair]

 

 

I notice this hasn't been answered yet. I.e. by someone who actually knows the answer as opposed to someone speculating wildly and with no more clue than the rest of us. 

 

When someone lays out the facts it is not speculating wildly, and as Dave reads this forum regularly he has not sought to correct anyone.   The following two statements are clear from his previous inputs. 

 

I will add a further one.  To make a rival OO King now would be commercial suicide.

 

So I would guess in about five years when the Hornby model is long in the tooth, stocks are running low and harder to get DJM might think about a King,

 

...........................................assuming all the armchair badmouthers have not killed his business by then

 

Any OO King would have to displace another model (an open invitation to a lynching) or it has to go to the back of the self "funding" queue

He, at this stage has very wisely avoided going head to head with the existing OO King model 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Snowwolflair

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks for the info. I suspect that KGV's celebrity status and bell will always make it a popular choice in any livery. Spreading the preserved and non-preserved versions between the different livery periods will probably help generate the widest appeal.

 

On that note, I would recommend offering KGV in historical rather than preserved condition. The reason for this is that although it was the first steam loco to run on the mainline in preservation, it has not done so for more than 30 years which is why it retains its original height cab and bonnet.

 

I think that KE 1&2 probably offer more scope as preserved models due to their much longer careers on the mainline since the end of Steam.

 

Just my tuppence worth. I will be getting one for sure anyway.

 

An N gauge one doesn't interest me but if Dave were to produce one this is very sound advice.  The condition of the preserved 6000 only represents it as it has been in the preserved era and is not correct for the engine when it was in service.

 

As far as scans are concerned while I know which engine was scanned it is in many respects irrelevant as I know large amounts of work were done to get the CADS accurate for whichever version they would have represented in the range of models Hattons originally proposed - running right through from Pre-War up to and including current status preserved engines with their peculiar looking cut-down fittings and cabs.  Thus should Dave decide to go ahead it is really down to him, or those people asking him for such a model, to select which version(s) to go for.

 

Regrettably I think, as 'Snowwolflair' has said above, that the chances of an 00 version going ahead now would represent commercial suicide for DJM - the market has changed because the Hornby 'King' not only got there first but isn't too bad a job and has been available in such quantities that it has ended up being remaindered.  There is no doubt room for something a major step (or steps) upmarket and well up the price scale such as Golden Age but I doubt if there's much room for a market between that and Hornby's effort.  

[JSpencer]

An N gauge one doesn't interest me but if Dave were to produce one this is very sound advice.  The condition of the preserved 6000 only represents it as it has been in the preserved era and is not correct for the engine when it was in service.

 

As

 

Regrettably I think, as 'Snowwolflair' has said above, that the chances of an 00 version going ahead now would represent commercial suicide for DJM - the market has changed because the Hornby 'King' not only got there first but isn't too bad a job and has been available in such quantities that it has ended up being remaindered.  There is no doubt room for something a major step (or steps) upmarket and well up the price scale such as Golden Age but I doubt if there's much room for a market between that and Hornby's effort.  

I would also add that the Previous Hornby King, the revamped 80s tender driven model, converted to loco drive and super detailed, had been out of production for a few years and were not fetching their original prices before any new King was announced.

 

We have seen the new Hornby King not selling fast though maybe slowed down by the DJM/Hattons model. The final death knell (or at best big postponement) were the Hornby ones appearing in the bargain bins.

 

The only small hope for a OO DJM model, would be much smaller, black label type locomotive of very small run heading north of £300+.

With maybe all singing and dancing smoke, DCC sound and light options etc. Crowd sourcing on such a model might be the only way to finance it, but that will of course need some talking with Hattons as doubtless many of the proposed liveries would need to be reused.

I feel DJM probably needs to recover finances and use them on other projects first before launching into this big complex OO model. And I also feel that with so many manufacturers, offering so much in today's unstable situation, means that people are choosing more in line with their layouts more than ever, making order books had to complete as things are diluted left, right and centre.

[jjb1970]

I'm another who voted no simply because N gauge is not my scale (well, not for British kettles anyway). If the OO goes ahead I'd probably buy one simply to support the project, but I have to be honest and say Hornby have satisfied my King cravings so I'd be highly unlikely to buy more than one. I think N gauge makes far more sense than OO even though it isn't for me as there is a space for an excellent N gauge King whereas sadly for DJM and Hattons that space is already pretty much occupied in OO.

[mikeharvey22]

I look at polls like this and wonder at their significance. Interesting to compare these results with the simpler poll for the DJM Pendolino from August - November 2014:-

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89072-n-gauge-pendolino-project/page-1

[JSpencer]

The problem with a pole here is that it does not represent the entire market. So you need to know what percentage of the market is regularly looking here (define regularly), figure out how much of the rest you can reach and multiply accordingly.

 

There is probably an equation somewhere....

 

My bet is a few hundred max voting, with at least 80% saying they want at least one or more. The "no" result is probably useless unless N gauge enthusiasts all actually vote with 80% saying "nah, don,t bother mate, just give us the....."

 

Price will play a factor as to how many actually order.

 

So unless you have sales experience from previous such poles, interpreting the result might be open to many more unseen variables.

 

My personally, I do not do N gauge and have not taken part in the vote.

[Wheatley]

JSpencer, on 11 Feb 2017 - 18:53, said:JSpencer, on 11 Feb 2017 - 18:53, said:JSpencer, on 11 Feb 2017 - 18:53, said:JSpencer, on 11 Feb 2017 - 18:53, said:

The problem with a pole here is that it does not represent the entire market.

 

But unless someone has posted a link to this topic from the N-Gauge Society forum, for a crowd-funded model it probably does. As far as I'm aware DJM doesn't advertise anywhere except here and his own site, and anyone reading Hattons' and Kernow's ads and the odd bit of supplier news in the mags could be forgiven that he was OO only. Impluse buys from people seeing a model sitting on a shelf or in a dealer's ad are not an option for crowd-funded models, you have to know about it up front.

 

Agreed though that the "no" option is a bit pointless without being qualified. "No because I model the LNER in OO" has no relevance whereas, as you say, 80% of N-gauge modellers voting "No" would be more useful.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Wheatley

[Kris]

I voted no. 

 

I do model in N, I just have no foreseeable need for a King, so would not be looking to purchase one. 

[raycorton]

Yes, yes but it would have to be Era 5

[90Tank]

After buying one of the 5800's and having a 1400 on pre-order I am now slightly upset to hear that what was going the Hornby beating King is to be shelved for an N-gauge version.

 

I have to say yes 00 has Hornby's tooling which is better than before but the CAD and list of what to expect from you Dave was just so much better,, and for the price of £179 DDC fitted a bargain when it should be higher. I would be more than happy for it to be higher and if you were to reduce the number of Kings in 00 that may help as well. So you could make them in both gauges and the same names. I would suggest 6000 KGV in her current state which is the closet to a proper BR King, 6023 KEII again in her current cut down form and 6024 KEI in her cut and slimmed down form (post current overhaul form) and then maybe two others one in a GWR livery and another livery of a BR variety weathered i.e. end of service condition. With the first three Kings Steam, GWR society and 6024 society could push them to supporters which would open a market.

 

And before any one says stop moaning buy a Hornby King, yes thank you I can but why would I want to invest in an 8 pin model change the name and running number when I have pre ordered a 21 pin high end model with the right name and running number.

[Snowwolflair]

Let me edit the above post and send it to the correct recipient.

 

Dear Mr Hatton

 

"After buying one of the 5800's and having a 1400 on pre-order I am now slightly upset to hear that what was going the Hornby beating King is to be shelved for an N-gauge version.

 

I have to say yes 00 has Hornby's tooling which is better than before but the CAD and list of what to expect from you Dave was just so much better,, and for the price of £179 DDC fitted a bargain when it should be higher. I would be more than happy for it to be higher and if you were to reduce the number of Kings in 00 that may help as well. So you could make them in both gauges and the same names. I would suggest 6000 KGV in her current state which is the closet to a proper BR King, 6023 KEII again in her current cut down form and 6024 KEI in her cut and slimmed down form (post current overhaul form) and then maybe two others one in a GWR livery and another livery of a BR variety weathered i.e. end of service condition. With the first three Kings Steam, GWR society and 6024 society could push them to supporters which would open a market.

 

And before any one says stop moaning buy a Hornby King, yes thank you I can but why would I want to invest in an 8 pin model change the name and running number when I have pre ordered a 21 pin high end model with the right name and running number.

 

Next time Mr Hatton you want us all to pre-order from you don't cancel."

 

Yours sincerely a disgruntled customer

[Wheatley]

90Tank, on 12 Feb 2017 - 22:59, said:

And before any one says stop moaning buy a Hornby King, yes thank you I can but why would I want to invest in an 8 pin model change the name and running number when I have pre ordered a 21 pin high end model with the right name and running number.

Because the former exists and the latter doesn't, which makes the name, number, and number of pins somewhat academic. Depends how badly you really want a King I suppose.

[gedlee]

I think an N Gauge King is a great idea and if crowdfunding is the way to get one or two in a reasonable time frame, then I am all for it.

Hope this gets more exposure in the model railway press to bring more modellers on board.

Cheers,

Ged

[Shockwave]

I would be up for one as long long as it late emblem.

[Chris Higgs]

I'd be certainly up for a couple, if done in as-BR service condition. Sell me some extra tender tops (BR early or BR late) so I can swap them around and I'd be even happier. Which rather implies single-chimney examples.

 

Another thing I'd really like to see is the Hattons 14XX/48XX shrunk to N. The Dapol model took us into a new era when it first came out, but we have come a lot further in the intervening years and a state of the art version (both cosmetically and mechanically) would go very nicely with the new Farish auto trailer.

 

Chris

[The Western Master]

I certainly like the idea of owning all 3 preserved examples in 3 different Liveries (i.e 6000 pre-war green, 6023 as preserved blue and 6024 in Br late crest). Now Farish have created the Castle and Dapol the Grange/Hall, it's the Top Link engine that's crying out for a contemporary standards model.

[Karhedron]

Thunderbirds are go!
 
DJM N Gauge Crowdfunded King Class Steam Loco Has Started

[Fireboxchaser6024]

I would definitely be up for a King Edward 1 6024 in current livery as planning stages of the seawall at Dawlish and 6024 whisking through on The Torbay Express is a must!