Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[GRASinBothell]

You might also try these for a few to paint while you're waiting for a couple of round-trip snail mail journeys to get you some PLM ones.

https://hardyshobbies.co.uk/product-category/military-wartime/

Gordon

[Nearholmer]

Thanks for all of those suggestions - given that I'm only thinking about populating the shunting plank when its in military mode, I should be able to find enough to be going on with.

[rockershovel]

7 hours ago, Annie said:

Another article by a linguistic primitive who calls engine drivers 'train drivers'.  I would have liked to see the author of the article calling my grandad a 'train driver'.

 

“.... the driver at the front / thinks the guard does not fully enter into his view of the scheme of things....” 

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

“.... the driver at the front / thinks the guard does not fully enter into his view of the scheme of things....” 

...and the Guard thinks the driver's the same.

[Donw]

There is a nice 0 gauge exhibition layout with a military flavour and those Dads Army figures. Now I dont think any of those were in fighting poses. Who supplies them I do not know but that would be my choice for the train. They don't like it up em!

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

They are possibly those Hardy’s Hobbies ones that GRAS pointed out. They definitely look the right sort for what I need - I’ve got in mind a stores depot, not the front line.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Lacathedrale]

Hello chaps, I'm hoping my lithium grease arrives today to start reassembling and re-oiling the Schools - might I ask the best way to apply the grease to the mechanism? It comes in a tub and the mechanism is closed in, except for the upward faces. My gut feeling is to use a 'for the bin' brush to apply it to any exposed teeth, manually rotate the gears, apply again, etc. etc. until everything comes out covered.

[Nearholmer]

You shouldn’t need or be using more than the smallest amount. I’d use a cocktail stick or the like to put a match-head sized blob in at the top of the mech, on the contrate gears, then work the mech until that has all apparently disappeared (actually been spread), then a couple more likewise.

 

Good grease stays where it’s meant to, so you only need the barest amount on the teeth to allow them to slide happily across one another.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Northroader]

Just plonk a cartridge on top.

https://www.kensonlubricants.com/product/texaco-motak-12800g-cartidges/

[Nearholmer]

That, and a few good squirts if Shell Alvania in your roller bearings and you’ll be fit for life!

Edited September 1, 2020 by Nearholmer

[St Enodoc]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjasMjHwsfrAhXYzzgGHSjbDNQQFjAAegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcglapps.chevron.com%2Fmsdspds%2FPDSDetailPage.aspx%3FdocDataId%3D336255%26docFormat%3DPDF&usg=AOvVaw3RN2PtvS2RZNjr3CaAIUX3

 

"and leave a tough, highly viscose [I think they mean viscous] and adhesive oil film".

 

I'll say it's adhesive!

[Lacathedrale]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

You shouldn’t need or be using more than the smallest amount. I’d use a cocktail stick or the like to put a match-head sized blob in at the top of the mech, on the contrate gears, then work the mech until that has all apparently disappeared (actually been spread), then a couple more likewise.

 

Good grease stays where it’s meant to, so you only need the barest amount on the teeth to allow them to slide happily across one another.

 

Thank you all - especially the 12kg cartridge for Class 50's   I'm still a bit worried about that adrift circlip but banging the mechanism upside-down hasn't dislodged it so I'm hoping that it won't dislodge right-way-up and hurt anything - and if this process hasn't cleared up the noise then it'll require a full strip-down anyway, at which point it can be removed and its proper position identified.

 

In other news, I've been experimenting with the idea of a balloon loop, having got back a nice quote for the pointwork from Maldon for the main layout area. The scenic area of the layout is divided into three 6' sections - platforms, throat, approach. There's space for development infront of the running lines. My original attic layout was a traverser-fed suburban station and it was a right pig having to constantly leg-over the joists during normal operation - so a hands off fiddle-yard that can leverage the space available - i.e. remotely controlled sections and turnouts without having to hurdle for every movement is mandatory.

 

This is roughly what I've come up with:

 

 

There is space for two long trains, two medium trains and multiple short trains. I would probably start with just the single outer loop and then iteratively add the inner. There's a potential for another inside loop to act purely as a way to turn locomotives on a 24" radius should that be deemed neccesary.

The plan does highlight the joist which unfortunately bisects the station both visually and operationally - uncoupling at one end and setting points at the other - to say nothing of the remote nature of the fiddle yard.

 

While operating alone, I can sit at the blue spot, coupling and uncoupling locomotives and coaches, parcels and newspapers on the dock, etc. manually, setting all the signals and energising routes via a box-panel, getting the benefit of a vista down the length of the layout and the approaching trains. Mounting the switches in a box that can be passed between the joists (i.e. the blue and orange spots) would enable both solo and duo operation - the duty of signal/route clearance can be split. I'll provision a rotary selector each for the nine sections I can see - four platform ends, the throat, the approach, and the three staging roads - initially just for on-off, but to permit a second controller to be connected also in due course. The idea of three operators simultaneously seems a little daft, but I guess if the signalman gets a little bored he can also act as station pilot, or as a singleton I can try to balance simultaneous arrivals and departures.

 

Any thoughts, in general?

[Northroader]

It’s a cartridge per traction motor, not per loco. With the loops, you just need enough space between the lines to avoid “sideswipe”, then it looks very workable. 

[Metropolitan H]

When I was involved with traction motors and other machines, one of the limiting factors on the interval between overhauls was the life of the grease in bearings and gears - no lubricant suppliers would warranty the grease beyond twelve years, whether or not the machine had been heavily or lightly used - or the grease left in storage (it goes off - hardens or separates - with age).

 

For model use I would recommend a Teflon based grease as sold for use on trombone slides or the special Massoth gear / bearing grease sold for use on LGB locos. Guess what, the Trombone Grease is cheaper and more readily available!

 

But do remember a little grease goes a long way and too much clogs up the works  and makes a horrible mess!

 

Regards

Chris H

 

[Lacathedrale]

The track spacing is set to 3.75" which AFAIK is the standard spacing of Maldon track - I'm not sure what the throw is on the Darstaed or Ace bogie coaches on a 27" radius - I could omit the middle track to be absolutely sure, I guess!

 

Annoyingly, a spring-loaded traverser style of operation in the vein of Maybank may be much more practical (read: cheaper, no hurdling required) - but I think really does need two people to operate, or be exhibited to shine:

 

 

This is a different site, clearly - in my garage. The third section in this case is a 90 degree curve rather than a straight, and leads onto a traverser rather than a balloon track. My (classic) car is normally parked on the right hand side, so would need to be taken out of the garage for operation to ensue - not ideal either.

[Nearholmer]

End and centre throw depend, of course, on the type of coach - I will measure a couple on R27" later if I get a minute.

[Simond]

I would most strongly advise finding and removing your circlip.  If it gets into the mesh of a pair of gears, it will stall the motor, it certainly could mark the gears, and may bend one of the shafts.  I guess it depends how unlucky you are.

 

if you’re sure it’s in there, do get it out.  
 

presuming you’ve got all the caked and cruddy grease out, a wash with paraffin would probably get rid of the rest, and unstick your clip.  And, into the bargain, leave everything nicely ready to be relubricated as described above.
 

atb

Simon

[mervyn]

11 hours ago, Northroader said:

Just plonk a cartridge on top.

https://www.kensonlubricants.com/product/texaco-motak-12800g-cartidges/

Dont forget to soak your hands in diesel then you can pick up the motak roll it into a ball and put it in the traction motor gear case !! simples.......

[Northroader]

Throw it in with the plastic still on it.

[Nearholmer]

Right, throws:

 

Many Ace and Darstaed coaches are 350mm over headstocks, but the more recent and more scale-looking Ace corridor coaches are 400mm over headstocks.

 

I only have one 400mm coach, an Exley, and I can't lay hands on it right now, so figures are for the 350mm and a 475mm long wooden Pullman car, which never gets run because it side-swipes too many things. All are on 27" radius curve and are measured from track centre (accuracy probably +/- 2mm).

 

350mm coach: end throw 44mm; centre throw 40mm.

 

475mm coach: end throw 51mm; centre throw 45mm.

 

I am 99% sure that the Ace 400mm coaches will pass with bare clearance on concentric Maldon curves, which I always count as having track centres at 94mm; the 350mm coaches pass with comfortable clearance.

 

My reason for favouring 350mm coaches, BTW, has nothing to do with clearances on curves, it is because longer ones make my layout look as small as it is and don't fit in at all well with old BL coaches.

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

14 hours ago, Simond said:

I would most strongly advise finding and removing your circlip.  If it gets into the mesh of a pair of gears, it will stall the motor, it certainly could mark the gears, and may bend one of the shafts.  I guess it depends how unlucky you are.

 

if you’re sure it’s in there, do get it out.  
 

presuming you’ve got all the caked and cruddy grease out, a wash with paraffin would probably get rid of the rest, and unstick your clip.  And, into the bargain, leave everything nicely ready to be relubricated as described above.
 

atb

Simon

 

I guess you're right - I'm just a little nervous of a full disassembly - I've already got screws, bolts, washers, etc. coming out of my ears - let alone taking off the wheels (quartering?!) and the entire gearbox apart.  I've spoken again to Terry (ACE specialist) and he's suggested giving it a bash - as long as I've got all the parts he can put it together again and/or fix the problem, so that's reassuring.

 

Cheers!

Edited September 2, 2020 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Thank you all again for all your help so far - I've got the mechanism disassembled and thankfully, it was not too hard. I haven't got it together just yet however!

 

Anyway, the circlip in my tweezers is what I found floating in the grease - it seems to be a different size to the rest of them - any ideas where it might have come from?

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

[St Enodoc]

17 hours ago, Metropolitan H said:

For model use I would recommend a Teflon based grease as sold for use on trombone slides or the special Massoth gear / bearing grease sold for use on LGB locos. Guess what, the Trombone Grease is cheaper and more readily available!

In my trombone-playing days we wouldn't give slide oil or grease the time of day. Nivea cream and a water spray were the done thing.

[Metropolitan H]

I've never gone that far into an ACE Schools - so can't help with the circlip question. But I have in the past stripped and cleaned the mechanism of Nearholmer's ACE Q Class 0-6-0 - by washing in white spirit. The remains of the grease and the white spirit from that exercise can be seen in the two jam-jars shown below.

 

Now on to overthrows and undertrows on 27" radius curves. The attached photo shows my WJVintage / Raylo (ETS made) GWR railcar - 470mm over buffer faces. The "Underthrow" from the 3rd rail edge is just over 50mm, while the maximum end "Overthrow" is just over 55mm so similar to Nearholmer's Pullman car results

 

The worst overthrows to watch out for are the leading ends of locos with a leading 4 wheel bogie - or a 6 coupled tank loco with a trailing bogie when running bunker first.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Regards

Chris H

[F-UnitMad]

2 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

I've spoken again to Terry (ACE specialist) and he's suggested giving it a bash...

Great choice of words, there!!