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The builder was just passing and called in to ask if he could return at 18:00 today with the scaffolder to assess what is going to be needed and where with the aim of putting the scaffolding up on Friday.

 

Building work should commence on Tuesday but might be Monday.

 

:imsohappy:

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Today’s exciting instalment: soil vent pipes.

 

The house has two soil vent pipes which both exit through roof tiles with built-in vents set a little way up from the gutters at the back of the house.  This is straight up for the pipe from the main bathroom but for the en-suite it involves a 2.5m horizontal run.  The snag is that the en-suite pipe will be in the way of one of the new steel beams and the bathroom pipe needs to vent higher up the roof now because the outlet cannot be below the roof windows. 

 

The builders also managed to give the "horizontal" en-suite pipe a slight downward slope before it met the vent which means it had a small puddle of water in it.  Fortunately, I spotted this before disconnecting the pipe.  Presumably this is condensation or blown in rain, or a combination of both.  I expect this came about because the roofer put in the tile vent and neatly aligned it with the other vent further along with the soil pipe installer (plumber?) not wanting to alter the roof or not realising there was a flaw (although the fact that pipe adhesive was used on the final joint and everything else is push fit makes me suspicious).  Hey ho, I managed to drain the water out but could have done without the faffing about in a tight space.

 

I’m going to run both pipes to the front because it will minimise the intrusion into the new loft room and put it on the opposite face of the roof to the nearest window.  To facilitate this repositioning I have inserted an additional joint into the en-suite pipe run so that by twisting the pipe it can be set at the required angle.  I don't know what the angle will be yet.  I'll have to wait to see the exact position in the roof that the builder can re-fit the vents.  The bathroom pipe needed some additional lengths of pipe.  I've used a flexible, concertina-style connector at the bottom of this extended pipe because it makes it as easy as possible to start the pipe run off at whatever angle is required.

 

Since the builder will be making holes in the roof anyway to fit windows, I have asked him to move the tiles with the integral soil pipe vents at the same time.

 

For the time being I have done what I can in terms of re-jigging the soil vent pipes.  They, temporarily, vent into the loft space but that should be OK for a few days since it is reasonably ventilated and not in use.  I was pleasantly surprised to find virtually no "drain" smell when I disconnected the pipes.  Curry and chilli are off the family menu for a short while though just in case. :stinker:

 

 

I was in two minds about whether to post this exciting information but decided it is all part of the work required and ought not to be ignored.

Edited by teaky

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Couldn't you fit Air Admittance Valves in the roof space (assuming they are in there and not the train room space) and get rid of all the extra pipes and weak points in the roof?

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Couldn't you fit Air Admittance Valves in the roof space (assuming they are in there and not the train room space) and get rid of all the extra pipes and weak points in the roof?

That's a good question Paul.  Due to the fact that I've been plotting this for some time it is something I considered.  A spot of online research made me doubt the long term reliability of air admittance valves (AAVs).  In this case the height of the steel beams means there won't be a great deal of space between the top of the steels and the deeper rafters which in turn means that accessing the space near the eaves will be awkward and fitting a replacement AAV difficult.

 

I've written off the back eaves as storage space.  The front though is accessible because we have a gable roof over the main bedroom which will provide sufficient headroom for access.  Had the access been there I might well have opted for AAVs or at least one for the bathroom.

 

The design of the existing roof tiles with built-in vents doesn't create a significant weak point in the roof.  They're pretty solid items.

post-9672-0-15341300-1507738493.jpg

Some of our neighbours have a different style of vent that slots in between two tiles but these are a direct replacement for a whole tile and the tiles themselves are 30mm thick concrete.  That being said, I suppose anything that goes through the felt layer could be deemed to be a weak spot but there's no evidence of leaks to date.

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You only need to vent one of the soil pipes direct to air on the one furthest from a manhole and could use an AAV on the other. 

 

An alternative is to vent them through ridge vents and use a mix of flexible and rectangular ducting up the rafters. they aren't carrying anything but fumes, so there are plenty of products available. If you do use a mix then I'd tape the joints for good measure. The ridge vents have the advantage that there's always a small void of space below the ridge to make a joint between vent & pipe.

 

My job in the next day or so is to form the 'flaunch' within a live manhole with a vets at the head of the soil pipe........lovely.....

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Hmmm.

 

The AAV is still a non starter for me since I have convinced myself they can fail and access is problematic.  The en-suite pipe is the one furthest away (as well as being the easiest to re-direct), so the bathroom pipe is where this would apply.  I'll have to give the alternative ducting some thought.  It may still lose out simply because I've already done most of the piping and there's only one length of pipe to cut.

 

Thanks for the info.

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You only need to vent one of the soil pipes direct to air on the one furthest from a manhole and could use an AAV on the other. 

 

An alternative is to vent them through ridge vents and use a mix of flexible and rectangular ducting up the rafters. they aren't carrying anything but fumes, so there are plenty of products available. If you do use a mix then I'd tape the joints for good measure. The ridge vents have the advantage that there's always a small void of space below the ridge to make a joint between vent & pipe.

 

My job in the next day or so is to form the 'flaunch' within a live manhole with a vets at the head of the soil pipe........lovely.....

I've remembered that I decided I couldn't do this because I could not get the separation I needed between vent and window to comply with regs.

 

 

btw - re: "My job in the next day or so is to form the 'flaunch' within a live manhole with a vets at the head of the soil pipe........lovely.....".  I think I'd be donning full protective gear for that one!  Don't you have an apprentice who needs to learn how to do flaunching?  :jester:

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The things you learn on RMweb!  Soil vent pipes - who would have thought?!

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Morning Teakers,

 

Much to interest Sheep here as I am contmplating a move upstairs myself to accomodate the Sheep Chronicles.

 

Splendid stuff.

 

 

Rob.

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Is that so that the sheep can have the ground floor?

 

That's the way it used to be done isn't it?  Animals on the ground floor providing free heating for the upper living quarters.

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btw - re: "My job in the next day or so is to form the 'flaunch' within a live manhole with a vets at the head of the soil pipe........lovely.....".  I think I'd be donning full protective gear for that one!  Don't you have an apprentice who needs to learn how to do flaunching?  :jester:

 

 

It would still be me doing the work as his arm would be the one blocking the live pipe.

 

The bit I hate is hanging upside down to do the work then watching your phone fall out of your top pocket and into a 'soft' landing.

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It would still be me doing the work as his arm would be the one blocking the live pipe.

 

The bit I hate is hanging upside down to do the work then watching your phone fall out of your top pocket and into a 'soft' landing.

Probably just as scary for anyone observing (judging by your avatar).  :jester:

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Windows have arrived.  A day early.  It can't last.

 

I've had a peek at one and they look quite smart.

 

If only they fitted through the hatch I could get them into the loft.  They'll have to wait until the scaffolding is in place and the builder opens up the roof from the outside to begin work.

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Best of luck, Rob. Hope you will feel able to post some photos of the work in progress once the builder starts work.

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Yes, I intend to illustrate what happens at each step.

 

Hopefully, the photos will be more exciting than what I've been able to post so far.

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Well, we appear to be on a roll today!  The scaffolders have just turned up unexpectedly, half a day early and are busy putting up scaffolding at the back of the house.

 

I don't imagine it will make any difference to when the builder can start but at least there should be time to make any changes if things are not the way the builder wants.

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Scaffolding.

 

It was too good to be true!

 

The house is now a security risk wrapped in scaffolding on three sides.  When the fourth side will be done is anyone's guess.  They may be back tomorrow or it may be Monday!  Clearly scaffolding is the trade of choice for people featuring a communication level of zero on their skills list.  The 08:15 start time turned into 11:50 and, like yesterday, they just turned up and started.  No "sorry we're late" or anything.  Then at around 16:00 it all went quiet again.  Laughably bad communication.

 

Still, I'm no expert, but the scaffolding looks good.  Nicely cross braced, plenty of protective plates & timber where it meets paving or touches a roof tile.  The important thing is that none of the remaining scaffolding will impact the builders' ability to start next week.

 

I'll add a few photos when the light is better.  (Even if you do all know what scaffolding looks like!)

Edited by teaky
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In my experience ,pole shufflers are a law unto themselves, I did a pointing job once on a house which was a mid terrace on a slope, I asked for the top lift to be approximately 6 foot down from the highest point on the gutter line.

 

When I got to the job, there was no ladder and the lift was 2 meters down from the lowest point of the gutter , and I had to use step ladders to reach the highest parts, taking above the handrails!

 

When I challenged the boss ,he told me that's how they always set the scaffolding up, and as I'd played upfront there was nothing I could do except deal with it!

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Scaffolders......When Darwin wrote the 'Evolution of the Species' he was able to make the link between the ape and man because he'd had some scaffolding put up then some plumbing work done. Next time they come just look at their knuckles and look for the drag marks.

 

To be honest I wouldn't expect any sort of customer interaction with them, although it is a skilled job it is a hard Labour one and only a certain type of person can stick at it for years, and they generally don't have time for chit chat. Finishing at 4pm on a Friday for them is unheard of, as the pubs are open from midday now this is where most can be found.

 

So in the name of 'oneupmanship' I'll take your scaffold and raise you with 9.....yes 9 ceiling joists....admittedly 6.3M long...delivered today with a total cost of £527.99p.........it took an hour to bring me around full....£58 each...I need another lie down.

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Only 9?  Pah!

 

I'll top that next Tuesday with 21 of 200 x 75mm floor joists and 30 of 150 x 75mm rafters.  :beee:

 

In this case it is costed into the job though.  Perhaps I'd better have the smelling salts ready for the builder?

 

When I was figuring out which parts of this conversion I would do myself I estimated the floor joists would weigh around 40kg each.  For a moment I thought OK but then realised I'd have to carry all of them up two storeys and quickly put them on the list for the team of builders.

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Hi, teaky, just found the thread you’ve got going. Most interested following the discussion we had going earlier on in the year on this other thread(http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/119375-i-have-got-a-loft/) it looks like you’ve got all the bases covered, so best wishes for a successful outcome.

Hi Northroader.  Yes, I remember that thread.  There have been a number of 'loft' threads over the years and it appears to be something which polarises quickly.

 

I wonder what happened in the end?  Did a layout get built in the boarded out loft?

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The things you learn on RMweb!  Soil vent pipes - who would have thought?!

 

gwrrob's A Nod to Brent thread had some very erudite discussions on stench pipes a while ago.

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Teaky,, just wait till the plasterers arrive... and sparkies NEVER tidy up as they go along.....

 

Our loft conversion was finished 4 years ago and still looks good.

 

Problem is I have been reminded that I need to build the layout now..but a full repaint is required first...

 

Baz

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