New Hornby 14xx

[The Johnster]

It would be questionable if it was even worth paying someone to take the bodies off for re-use.  

 

I will have no objection to the price increase if it has paid for a better running more reliable chassis; £60 is pretty good these days for any loco except the most toy-like basic 0-4-0, and cheaper than an auto trailer for it from a certain other manufacturer.  While the model is to some extent a redacted 40 year old Airfix item, there are still production and distribution costs (personally, I have no objection to Chinese people wanting a decent lifestyle), a good bit of work will have needed to be done on the chassis and mech if it is to be a good runner, and with the reputation it has picked up this really has to be done!  BR lined green costs more to apply than an unlined variant, of course.

[Hroth]

Hopefully some of the price increase* will have gone into sorting out the manufacturing problems that bedevilled the last batch.  If it had been a pickup/wheel problem, I might have kept mine and not returned it, but as it just sat doing nothing, I felt that I might as well return it.

 

The "street" price is still pretty reasonable so I'll buy at least one on preorder, and if it works and there's still stock after I've tried it out I'll get another.

 

*  I just checked, R3692 is £12 more than R3589 was, from my preferred supplier.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Hroth

[railroadbill]

By coincidence I was doing some work on the 2 previous version 14xxs I bought second hand. I unscrewed the shiny metal chimneys and sprayed them with Halfords grey primer then matt black, it being a warm dry day in the garden. The black has about the same degree of sheen  to match the smokeboxes, and the locos look that bit better for it.

The new ones do have a black chimney anyway, one improvement, but the older ones run fine without needing work on them. Hopefully with the next release  Hornby will have fixed the problems with the modified chassis as it is a good looking classic model railway loco. 

 

They do look good running round the layout with an auto trailer...

[Caddy]

I have always liked the Hornby 14xx. When in the UK in 1999 I purchased what must have been one of the earliest Chinese made model with blackened wheels and wow, what a difference over the old Airfix and Dapol versions. The old "Thurleigh Models and Crafts" in Wincanton had a test track in the back of the shop so I was able to see the loco run before buying. After a few years I replaced the driving band wheels with another set of plain wheels. Still now, after nearly 20 years continuous service, the loco runs beautifully. In the other 14xx thread I posted a video of it complete with magnificent Bachman auto trailer.

 

One thing that did always bug me however was the chimney. As well as being metallic and shiny, it really looked too thin. When the Hattons model appeared I thought right the time has come to fix this. I simply cut some "invisible" sticky tape to the required width and wrapped it around the Hornby chimney until it seemed right! One coat of paint later and voila! Judge for yourself from the photo. 

 

When the new BR lined green version appears, I will probably grab one for the spares if nothing else. 

 

[BWsTrains]

Hopefully some of the price increase* will have gone into sorting out the manufacturing problems that bedevilled the last batch.  If it had been a pickup/wheel problem, I might have kept mine and not returned it, but as it just sat doing nothing, I felt that I might as well return it.

 

The "street" price is still pretty reasonable so I'll buy at least one on preorder, and if it works and there's still stock after I've tried it out I'll get another.

 

*  I just checked, R3692 is £12 more than R3589 was, from my preferred supplier.

Just be sure this is not a triumph of hope over experience.

 

Months ago I followed guidance to "fix up' the poor pickup issues of the new release and was fairly happy with the outcome but with more running the poor weight distribution proved more of an annoyance than I could bear. Even with no load it would find track spots where both front pairs slipped. (every other loco I have is fine)

I conceded defeat, bought an earlier release and as other wiser folk here have noted, the changes in the new chassis are a definite negative as the older model runs far better.

 

I can see that Hornby might well fix the axle alignment (thicker tyres?) and the wiper alignment fairly easily but the poor geometry I think not. There are many fine 2nd hand earlier models out there and I wish I'd listened to the wise council here earlier,

Edited July 3, 2018 by BWsTrains

[The Johnster]

I have always liked the Hornby 14xx. When in the UK in 1999 I purchased what must have been one of the earliest Chinese made model with blackened wheels and wow, what a difference over the old Airfix and Dapol versions. The old "Thurleigh Models and Crafts" in Wincanton had a test track in the back of the shop so I was able to see the loco run before buying. After a few years I replaced the driving band wheels with another set of plain wheels. Still now, after nearly 20 years continuous service, the loco runs beautifully. In the other 14xx thread I posted a video of it complete with magnificent Bachman auto trailer.

 

One thing that did always bug me however was the chimney. As well as being metallic and shiny, it really looked too thin. When the Hattons model appeared I thought right the time has come to fix this. I simply cut some "invisible" sticky tape to the required width and wrapped it around the Hornby chimney until it seemed right! One coat of paint later and voila! Judge for yourself from the photo. 

 

When the new BR lined green version appears, I will probably grab one for the spares if nothing else. 

 

IMG_7101.JPG

 

1421 was for many years the Cowbridge Branch regular loco, shedded at Llantrisant, but all the photos I've seen of it show it in either 1948 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' sans serif black or early BR unicycling lion black.  It did not have a top feed in these photos, though may well have acquired one by the time it was in lined green livery.

[Hroth]

Hornby have announced their new issue of the 14xx (R3692) as "Just Arrived", a month early compared with the predicted date.  Anyone brave enough to splash the cash to see if it works better than the disasterous previous version?

 

As an aside, there's a couple of surprise arrivals of other locos, a month or more earlier than expected.  Whazzup!?

[Ian Hargrave]

Hornby have announced their new issue of the 14xx (R3692) as "Just Arrived", a month early compared with the predicted date.  Anyone brave enough to splash the cash to see if it works better than the disasterous previous version?

 

As an aside, there's a couple of surprise arrivals of other locos, a month or more earlier than expected.  Whazzup!?

A number of events seem have taken Hornby by surprise within the last few days...

[melmerby]

A number of events seem have taken Hornby by surprise within the last few days...

What. Like Sunday following Saturday?

Day following night?

People wanting working models?

 

 

Keith

[The Johnster]

That's a significant price hike, though the model is still not bad value if it runs well.  It has lost the temptation value for me though, and I doubt I will be buying one attractive though it is.  I would have to have pushed Rule 1 a bit far by my standards for it anyway. But I've already bought the plates for 1421, which requires the top feed removing for my period...

 

Ok, not this month and probably not next, but I'll bite if anyone discounts and the model turns out to be a good runner.  I'll be keeping an eye here, shamelessly expecting others to do the finding out for me!

[Hroth]

That's a significant price hike, though the model is still not bad value if it runs well.  It has lost the temptation value for me though, and I doubt I will be buying one attractive though it is.  I would have to have pushed Rule 1 a bit far by my standards for it anyway. But I've already bought the plates for 1421, which requires the top feed removing for my period...

 

Ok, not this month and probably not next, but I'll bite if anyone discounts and the model turns out to be a good runner.  I'll be keeping an eye here, shamelessly expecting others to do the finding out for me!

Rails have a bit of a discount on them and Hattons have a bit less..  It all depends on whether they've learned the lesson of the previous attempt.  If I'd not put in for one of the last R3550 pre-orders from Derails, I might have tried one.

[BWsTrains]

That's a significant price hike, though the model is still not bad value if it runs well.  It has lost the temptation value for me though, and I doubt I will be buying one attractive though it is.  I would have to have pushed Rule 1 a bit far by my standards for it anyway. But I've already bought the plates for 1421, which requires the top feed removing for my period...

 

Ok, not this month and probably not next, but I'll bite if anyone discounts and the model turns out to be a good runner.  I'll be keeping an eye here, shamelessly expecting others to do the finding out for me!

Johnster,

 

despite all the relatively minor niggles such as middle wheels not on track, pickups set too low etc that Hornby should have fixed for the 2018 release, the biggest issue that I've seen, now I've the luxury of comparing the 2017 with the 2008 release (R2778) , is the big difference in position of the centre of gravity.

In the 2008 version where COG is well forward, this greatly improves traction of the driving wheels relative to the new model where the GOG is further back. It is most noticeable if you press down on the cab of the 2008 release, this causes the front wheels to lift at least 1mm in the air as the rear axle spring is compressed. Release and it drops back with a clunk on its front wheels.  

 

IMO that was a major but dumb design change and will not be undone in this new release. It allowed them to leave out the rear axle spring which is tricky to assemble. Rather like other recent models, costing down has been achieved at the expense of operability (or perhaps they just didn't bother to check thoroughly or care?)

 

Colin

Edited July 25, 2018 by BWsTrains

[The Johnster]

Johnster,

 

despite all the relatively minor niggles such as middle wheels not on track, pickups set too low etc that Hornby should have fixed for the 2018 release, the biggest issue that I've seen, now I've the luxury of comparing the 2017 with the 2008 release (R2778) , is the big difference in position of the centre of gravity.

In the 2008 version where COG is well forward, this greatly improves traction of the driving wheels relative to the new model where the GOG is further back. It is most noticeable if you press down on the cab of the 2008 release, this causes the front wheels to lift at least 1mm in the air as the rear axle spring is compressed. Release and it drops back with a clunk on its front wheels.  

 

IMO that was a major but dumb design change and will not be undone in this new release. It allowed them to leave out the rear axle spring which is tricky to assemble. Rather like other recent models, costing down has been achieved at the expense of operability (or perhaps they just didn't bother to check thoroughly or care?)

 

Colin

 

Now, that is seriously good information and very useful; thank you Colin.  I may well steer clear of the current Hornby 14xx as a result of it; there are plenty of other things I can spend 60 squids on, and it's half way towards the eventual Bachmann 94xx I really need.  I could change my opinion if there are copious reports of what an amazingly good runner this loco is, but I frankly doubt these will be forthcoming.  Shame, as the finish is lovely and it should be a very popular model, but 0-4-2s are notoriously difficult to balance correctly; I have some sympathy for H in this case but not so much as to part with my cash just yet!

[bigherb]

 I could change my opinion if there are copious reports of what an amazingly good runner this loco is, but I frankly doubt these will be forthcoming.

Can't say mine was a problem, the pickups where a tad long but actually don't cause a problem on my Peco code 100 track. Haulage wise it will pull more than I will use it for and it is very smooth and controllable.

[Ian Hargrave]

Now, that is seriously good information and very useful; thank you Colin.  I may well steer clear of the current Hornby 14xx as a result of it; there are plenty of other things I can spend 60 squids on, and it's half way towards the eventual Bachmann 94xx I really need.  I could change my opinion if there are copious reports of what an amazingly good runner this loco is, but I frankly doubt these will be forthcoming.  Shame, as the finish is lovely and it should be a very popular model, but 0-4-2s are notoriously difficult to balance correctly; I have some sympathy for H in this case but not so much as to part with my cash just yet!

FYI..Derails have it in stock at £46.20 plus postage of £3.10 if you are still interested.

[David Stannard]

Hornby have announced their new issue of the 14xx (R3692) as "Just Arrived", a month early compared with the predicted date.  Anyone brave enough to splash the cash to see if it works better than the disasterous previous version?

 

As an aside, there's a couple of surprise arrivals of other locos, a month or more earlier than expected.  Whazzup!?

I replaced my old Hornby one with a DJ Models 58xx, sure it may have cost more money but it has a far higher level of detail and runs as smooth as silk, the original Airfix model for it's day was great model but these days is well and truly past it's use by date regardless of what "tweaking" Hornby may have attempted on it.

[chuffinghell]

I had the GWR railroad version and to be fair it wasn't a bad loco, quite rugged

 

Not as highly detailed as the Hattons/DJM version but then I found the lack of fine detail an advantage with my clumsy handling

 

My only issue was it's inability to travel slowly over setrack* points without hesitating

 

*probably a bad decision to use setrack points in the fiddle yard but we live and learn

 

Chris

Edited July 26, 2018 by chuffinghell

[The Johnster]

Pick up issues on dead frogs, inexcusable on a properly balanced 6 wheeled loco, are exactly the sort of thing I want to avoid!

Edited July 26, 2018 by The Johnster

[lofty1966]

I replaced my old Hornby one with a DJ Models 58xx, sure it may have cost more money but it has a far higher level of detail and runs as smooth as silk, the original Airfix model for it's day was great model but these days is well and truly past it's use by date regardless of what "tweaking" Hornby may have attempted on it.

Not sure cost cutting can be described as “tweaking”

[adb968008]

Not sure cost cutting can be described as “tweaking”

It usually is in the financials of a board room report..

 

Just wait until we see the next release Brighton Belles “tweaks” ..

[Coryton]

Pick up issues on dead frogs, inexcusable on a properly balanced 6 wheeled loco, are exactly the sort of thing I want to avoid!

 

I have huge problems with the Railroad 0-6-0s which stick everywhere.

 

Now I'm sure that's down to poor tracklaying because most people seem to have no problem with them.

 

But my track is good enough for just about anything else I care to run, including Railroad 0-4-0s despite having two fewer wheels to pick up from.

[adb968008]

I have huge problems with the Railroad 0-6-0s which stick everywhere.

 

Now I'm sure that's down to poor tracklaying because most people seem to have no problem with them.

 

But my track is good enough for just about anything else I care to run, including Railroad 0-4-0s despite having two fewer wheels to pick up from.

Hornby railroad 0-6-0s have pickups on 4 wheels only, the pickups themselves aren’t exactly the best.

The traction trye in the centre wheel can sometimes rise up onto and beach the chassis on a point, just above that of the sprung wheel meaning an annoying loss of pickup / stall, specially if the track / wheels aren’t spotlessly clean / tight.

You could remove the centre wheels and fit standard wheels onto the geared axles, but then you’ve got problems with radius on tight curves, unless you file off the flanges.

Edited July 27, 2018 by adb968008

[Coryton]

Hornby railroad 0-6-0s have pickups on 4 wheels only, the pickups themselves aren’t exactly the best.

The traction trye in the centre wheel can sometimes rise up onto and beach the chassis on a point, just above that of the sprung wheel meaning an annoying loss of pickup / stall, specially if the track / wheels aren’t spotlessly clean / tight.

You could remove the centre wheels and fit standard wheels onto the geared axles, but then you’ve got problems with radius on tight curves, unless you file off the flanges.

 

Maybe I haven't been paying attention because I didn't think that mine had traction tyres.

[The Johnster]

I have one of these chassis on a 2721, and have removed Satan's spit from the centre wheels to the considerable benefit of the smoothness of the slow running.  It picks up on only 4 wheels as has been said, and while one could fabricate pickup on the centre wheels it would be dubious with the groove.  I may replace the wheelset at sometime in the future as my minimum curve radius in one 4/3 curved turnout in the fiddle, everything else is Peco Streamline small and medium radius, which I reckon the loco would cope with.

 

Pick up on my layout is adequate despite only 4 wheels picking up, but I find I have to be particularly scrupulous with cleaning on this chassis.  Even then she is sometimes reluctant to move off and needs a prod; I would not make a point of obtaining more of this type of chassis.  My Bachmann's are much more reliable performers.

[tomparryharry]

I have one of these chassis on a 2721, and have removed Satan's spit from the centre wheels to the considerable benefit of the smoothness of the slow running.  It picks up on only 4 wheels as has been said, and while one could fabricate pickup on the centre wheels it would be dubious with the groove.  I may replace the wheelset at sometime in the future as my minimum curve radius in one 4/3 curved turnout in the fiddle, everything else is Peco Streamline small and medium radius, which I reckon the loco would cope with.

 

Pick up on my layout is adequate despite only 4 wheels picking up, but I find I have to be particularly scrupulous with cleaning on this chassis.  Even then she is sometimes reluctant to move off and needs a prod; I would not make a point of obtaining more of this type of chassis.  My Bachmann's are much more reliable performers.

With the auto locos, I've considered putting a set of pickups on the trailer, just get that bit better. That said, I need to work up the basic Airfix trailer, so 2 birds with one stone.

 

Ian.