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Advice for someone thinking of starting modelling American


Jerry1975
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I'll put this here, rather than on my layout thread as I think it's a useful US newbie question.

 

Shortlines - do they tend to predominantly use second hand motive power from one manufacturer?

 

i.e  Does one shortline have mostly Alcos, whereas another will have mostly EMD for example?

 

And the second question is:

If the use EMDs, do they lean towards a particular variant? GP9, GP15 etc?

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

The infamous Montreal, Maine and Atlantic used a mix of EMD and GE equipment, but it was on the large side (not really a shortline, but not a Class 1 railroad).

 

Until the gas fracking really took off, my favourite shortline (Wellsboro and Corning) used a single EMD switcher (an SW1500, I think) for it's twice weekly train (2-3 cars). It replaced that with 4 SD40s (ex- Quebec, North Shore, and Labrador) for hauling trainloads of fracking sand.  The locos used will be whatever is appropriate to the traffic and cheap. As a rule of thumb, think non-turbo for EMD (e.g. GP38s rather than GP40s) and think two-axle rather than three-axle unless the traffic requires it.

 

Adrian

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Code 100 track is fine to be honest. For the detail oriented modeler finer scale track looks better, but Code 100 is popular because it's extremely forgiving of uneven track bed and raggedy old locos. You'll frequently find even high detail layouts will use Code 100 track in hidden and hard to reach areas like tunnels and elevated  track, just for the improved running conditions and lower chance of derailing.

 

Code 83 is your happy medium, and is the popular "fine scale" for American prototypes, since in many cases even the older Rivarossi locos with pizza cutter wheels will still run on it.

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Code 100 track is fine to be honest. For the detail oriented modeler finer scale track looks better, but Code 100 is popular because it's extremely forgiving of uneven track bed and raggedy old locos. You'll frequently find even high detail layouts will use Code 100 track in hidden and hard to reach areas like tunnels and elevated  track, just for the improved running conditions and lower chance of derailing.

 

Code 83 is your happy medium, and is the popular "fine scale" for American prototypes, since in many cases even the older Rivarossi locos with pizza cutter wheels will still run on it.

All that you say is true, but with the exception of very old Rivarossi, any equipment that has earned an NMRA warrant has RP 25 wheels and will run on code 70 with no problem. The size of the rail really has no influence on derailments, people use code 100 in staging yards and such because they can get it cheap.

 

Cheers,

 

David

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The track we've had trouble with is Tri-Ang Series 3 and Super 4 -- too much flangeway.

 

Peco looks more American than British to me. I'm having a hard time telling the new code 83 from the old code 70 (or is it 75?)  Unless you buy something really ancient, it all operates on Peco fine scale, possibly better than code 100.

 

But it does bump along the ties on davknigh's P4 layout.  :jester:

 

 

Most shortlines only own locomotives and possibly a few cars for track maintenance. 

There was a craze for shortlines to own boxcars for rent a few decades ago. Due to a shortage, something called incentive per diem (IPD) was instituted and some shortlines tried to cash in.  It's said that some of them had more boxcars than track. (see Pickens, St Lawrence railroads)

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North American spurs can just end in the dirt somewhere, sometimes a couple of old sleepers are used as a wheel stop and there are something called wheel stops which are a device bolted to the track (   https://www.shapeways.com/product/XWZARFY94/wheel-stops-ho-20-pack-c83 ).              .
Track bumpers (buffer stops) as far as I can tell are mainly used where coming off the track could be embarrassing such as on to a highway or down an embankment. 
 

Patrick

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I'll put this here, rather than on my layout thread as I think it's a useful US newbie question.

 

Shortlines - do they tend to predominantly use second hand motive power from one manufacturer?

 

i.e  Does one shortline have mostly Alcos, whereas another will have mostly EMD for example?

 

And the second question is:

If the use EMDs, do they lean towards a particular variant? GP9, GP15 etc?

 

Cheers,

Mick

Most short lines and regionals are one builder railroads and most of the time that builder is EMD. EMD's have always been more sought after in the used market. A non EMD short line generally also sticks to one builder which they have the experiences to maintain.

 

Two exceptions come to mind are: 1) railroads that were non-EMD railroads (often ALCO strongholds) and no longer can meet their needs with just the other builder and they give in and get some EMDs. And end up, for at least a few years, running the two side by side. 2) Recently GE dash 8s have come on to the used market and have proven more popular than previous GEs with short lines. For example Pan Am just got a bunch of old CSX dash 8s after being an almost exclusive EMD railroad for a number of years.

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Not sure how to phrase this without causing offence, but some of the excellent and accurate gen about shortlines might not be of help to the OP for his project, as it refers mainly to modern, or at least recent, operating practice with large equipment. SD40s are nice and legit for shortlines but maybe not for a layout 3 or even 4ft long, which is what I took Jerry's thoughts to be. An Alco S1 or SW9 with 40ft cars might be more suitable.

 

It's Jerry's call obviously, I'm just offering advice.

 

Incidentally, I've not had any problem sourcing Micro Engineering track. An order to Walthers via Model Junction of Slough sorts it fine. Any other UK Walthers dealer can do the same.

 

steve

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Not sure how to phrase this without causing offence, but some of the excellent and accurate gen about shortlines might not be of help to the OP for his project, as it refers mainly to modern, or at least recent, operating practice with large equipment. SD40s are nice and legit for shortlines but maybe not for a layout 3 or even 4ft long, which is what I took Jerry's thoughts to be. An Alco S1 or SW9 with 40ft cars might be more suitable.

 

It's Jerry's call obviously, I'm just offering advice.

 

Incidentally, I've not had any problem sourcing Micro Engineering track. An order to Walthers via Model Junction of Slough sorts it fine. Any other UK Walthers dealer can do the same.

 

steve

 

I did find that on my small 52in. long HO switching layout, I could get away with the likes of a GP40 or GP38, and 50ft freight cars, as long as I took a minimalist approach and didn't switch more than two cars at a time. It just extends the scope a bit if you don't want to stick to earlier period short equipment.

 

Having said which I had to add 4 inches to the original 48 to cater for them.

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Thanks again everyone for your replies.

 

I will be building a small layout about 50's - 60's like Steve says using 40ft cars mainly and a small to medium size shunting locomotive/switcher but any information is useful as I find it all very interesting and I also like reading about the history and operations of different railroads / periods.

 

Rodshaw, do you have any photos of your layout ( forgive me if I missed it on here ).

 

What are EMD's please?

 

Currently thinking of a warehouse with 2-3 spots for box cars and a siding for an other industry possibly a third, see how it goes once I start building it.

 

Thanks again Everyone.

 

Jerry.

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EMD are a loco manufacturer. They brought us the E, F, SW, GP and SD series. They also are responsible for the class 59.

 

Canadian built EMDs are called GMDs (I think) but they're fundamentally the same locomotives (Alco had a similar relationship with MLW).

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Jerry,

 

There is really useful facility that can be used on US freight layouts called a team track.

 

It is a track either next to or within a flat area, usually concrete, where just about anything can be loaded or unloaded. Google 'team track' for images to get some ideas.

 

steve

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Thanks again everyone for your replies.

 

I will be building a small layout about 50's - 60's like Steve says using 40ft cars mainly and a small to medium size shunting locomotive/switcher but any information is useful as I find it all very interesting and I also like reading about the history and operations of different railroads / periods.

 

 

 

Jerry,

 

if you`ve got a bit of time kill,you might like a look through these;

 

https://railroadprototypemodeler.wordpress.com/blog/

 

A very nice small semi rural 50`s/60`s, ho scale layout with lots of good advice and building/weathering tips,with a small amount of O scale thrown in for good measure!.

 

http://www.patchrailroad.net/The_Patch/Patch_Home.html

 

Completley different style and setting to the above,and very much urban,but again a small layout.

The emphasis for this one is more on switching,50`s/60`s again with small switch engines and freight cars.

Nice and simple and very attainable......

 

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/

 

Lots of good info,prototype and modeling,mainly the era`s upto and including the 50`s but will do for 60`s era freight cars as well.

 

Brian.

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Jerry - I note you want to build 50s/60's with 40' cars as a theme for your proposed layout - We have a member on here called Broadoak (peter) he also post on the Model Trains Interactive forum and has a lot of fotos that may inspire thoughts of exactly what you want - try " More Rambling around Arkansas " http://forum.mtimag.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=906&start=0 but take your time - there are 24 pages - if you need to join the forum just sign up and I'll join you ASAP - I'm the moderator but it will happen next time I log in

Best

Jack

 

EDIT - BTW can I just add that it is nice to see someone who isn't afraid to ask for help and advice on what is a truly different sub-section of Railway modelling ( note I said Railway and not Railroad) - there are many who dash straight in and then become disappointed and leave again - we are here to help!

Edited by shortliner
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Canadian built EMDs are called GMDs (I think) but they're fundamentally the same locomotives (Alco had a similar relationship with MLW).

Indeed, I like to think of GMD (General Motors Diesel Division) and MLW (Montreal Loco Works) as offering opportunities for the kitbasher

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I will be building a small layout about 50's - 60's like Steve says using 40ft cars mainly and a small to medium size shunting locomotive/switcher but any information is useful as I find it all very interesting and I also like reading about the history and operations of different railroads / periods.

 

 

 There is a big difference between shortlines before the 1980's and shortlines after the 1980's.

 

Short lines before the 1980's tended to be small independent railroads that never merged into a bigger railroad.  They might have bought new power or second hand power, typically from the railroad to which they connected.

 

After the 1980's the short lines tended to be pieces of class 1's that they didn't want and were spun off to private owners.  

 

Since the pre-1980's short line was an actual railroad unto itself since the dawn of time, it will tend to have more infrastructure (roundhouse, shops, etc.) while the post 1980's short line is just a random chunk of a branch line, there might not be any shops existing on that line.  So a older short line would have a wood, brick or stone engine house, while a newer short line, if it even has an engine house, it would be of newer construction such as corrugated metal.

 

A 1950's shortline might have steam power.    If you are going to have a "used" diesel you have to consider what power would be sold off used in that era.  In the 1950's anything from an F7, GP7 or RS3 or above would be brand new.  A railroad isn't going to buy a brand new GP7 in 1950 and sell it used to a short line in 1955.  Used diesels in the 1950's would be early 600-900-1000 hp switch engines (ex-military?) and FM, early Baldwins or Alcos.

Edited by dave1905
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Thanks again Everyone.

 

Team tracks sound interesting so will look into these, as I know very little about American railroads this is all new to me so bear with me if I don't understand some of the terminology etc.

 

Very useful information there, my first layout will really be a tester layout to get the hang of things American, I will model it as realistic as possible but I'm not over worried if I get one or two things wrong.

 

As for short lines, I find these very interesting and I'm hoping to model one, I might have to model it in the 70's or 80's but using 50's-60's rolling stock, would that be more realistic?

 

Thanks everyone again for taking the time to help a new American modeller.

 

Jerry.

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While a 50s shortline wouldn't have been able to buy a used GP7 or similar back then, the more prosperous ones did buy new. I'm thinking of Aberdeen & Rockfish (a GP7), Sierra (a trio of Balwins) and McCloud River (Baldwins again). Just add a smart new livery straight out of the builder's plan book.

 

http://rr-fallenflags.org/ar/ar.html

 

http://rr-fallenflags.org/misc-m/mr34rsa.jpg

 

http://rr-fallenflags.org/misc-s/srrc42y24.jpg

 

Nick

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A team track is so called because it enabled a team of horses plus farm/flatbed/whatever trailer to draw up next to a freight car for direct loading between the two: just as in a British goods yard in what the GWR called a “mileage siding”. There might sometimes be a small platform with a ramp, to enable things like farm vehicles to be transferred.

 

American rolling stock could be quite long-lived, but there was a general trend towards higher capacity (larger) cars over time. 40’ box cars carried on in use, but in diminishing numbers. Small short lines, for example the North Stratford Railroad Corporation, bought or rented cars that were serviceable but no longer required by the major railroads: there was quite a business in this. Indeed, the Maine Central - not a short line by any means - sold some of its cars to an equipment leasing company, had them refurbished and then rented them back (as the cost then comes out of the running account, and not capital expenditure).

 

The NSRC only used its own cars, or occasionally CN and MEC, so might be a bit boring. They also only operated twice a week. Once to switch out the loaded cars and replace them with empties in the factory bays, and the following day to take the loaded cars (Ethan Allen furniture) down to the interchange, returning with empties, which were stored ready for the next week.

 

An 80s short line, spun off from a major road, might exist to carry a single traffic, in a single type of car, but it might exist simply because if owned by a class 1 road, it would have to be maintained and operated to class 1 standards, including shipping rates and crew levels, whereas as a short line, it would be exempted, and might have an operating staff of just 2 or 3: someone to deal with orders, someone to drive, someone to throw switches and open couplers, someone to effect repairs, and someone to maintain the motive power. I realise that is 5 roles, but they could double up, so the “President” might also look after the track and the paperwork, and he and the mechanic might take it in turns to drive and act as “brakie”. Unless the line’s motive power weighed less than 45 (short) tons, a class 1 would have to have a “fireman” on the loco, too.

 

An older short line might be pretty similar, too, in this respect, but might also handle a wider variety of traffic, Serving two or three local industries and in the 50s, quite possibly smaller loads of general (“less than carload” - lcl) freight, and they might not have their own cars, just have loads arriving in any suitable freight car, from whatever was to hand, and use these to ship goods out, bearing in mind that loads for the north east should, if possible, be loaded onto a car from a road from that area.

 

Your best bet is to have a look around, and see if there is anything which really grabs your interest. In the interim, you could go for some generic items, such as a 44 tonner (small diesel) and a few cars of different types from different roads, such as a general service gondola, open hopper, covered hopper, box cars of various designs and heights, a tank car and maybe a reefer (refrigerator car). Use the big roads/companies, and you will probably re-use things once you get more focused. Sante Fe, Union Pacific, Southern Pacific, Rock Island, Milwaukee, Northern Pacific, Chicago Great Western, New York Central, Pennsylvania, Southern, and many others might crop up, with Pacific Fruit Express for a reefer and any major oil company for tank cars. Two turnouts and 4 yards of track, and you could easily set up an inglenook shunting layout, with a card for each car to act as a tiddlywink computer.

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