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Regency Rails - Georgian, Williamine & Early Victorian Railways

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8 hours ago, Charlie586 said:

That could be the reason. I suppose it could just be the loading gauges line up worse the other way as there wasn't a period of mixed gauge so they weren't restricted by platforms for both.  A quick search bought this up http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/holland02.htm, plus there seems to be other photos out there, but not of standard and broad together.

 

 

Might it not be to protect the clearances between adjacent running tracks, in a localised layout which is clearly an addition to the pre-existing SG track layout? Is it a true comparison to the GWR, which designed and operated a true dual-Gauge network? 

Edited by rockershovel
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On 23/10/2019 at 19:15, Annie said:

Yes, - it's a 'Patentee', - I got the name wrong when I posted above.  These are big images and a couple are a little well worn since they are scans of the original drawings.  'Amstel' was built for the Dutch Broad Gauge not the narrow  standard gauge.

Thanks Annie. These are much appreciated!

 

Dana

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On 06/10/2019 at 20:54, john new said:

Early Mainline Railways 2nd Conference - Proceedings book

 

EMLRC2 –the last chance to order and save is approaching! (The Conference was held in 2018) The book of the conference is now almost ready for print - this your last chance to subscribe at the substantially reduced rate of £36 (plus p&p). You will find the details at https://rchs.org.uk/early-railways-conference-combined/ on the RCHS website.

 

Obviously not a book about modelling early railways but covering a range of elements relating to the prototype during the period covered by this thread.

 

The next conference will be in Swansea during June 2021 with the call for expressions of interest in presenting papers due out this coming January.

 

 

The Early Railways, and Early Mainline Railways serials of conferences are now combined. Next is in Swansea in June 2021, as stated, then near Darlington (Date/venue TBC) in 2025 for the obvious reasons surrounding the S&D bi-centenary.

 

 

The deadline for ordering has been extended. As author's we now have our submission proofs for checking so the order option will be closing soon but if you haven't yet ordered a copy you still can.

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Possibly of interest to some members of this forum. Even if not directly relevant to you please share this Call for Papers with any contacts you have who may be interested.

The_7th_International_EARLY_RAILWAYS_CONFERENCE.jpg

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On 19/10/2019 at 23:16, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

It is not so long ago as people think.

 

Commercial sail lingered on in England in the form of sea going barges in the 1950's and on into the 1960's

 

 

On 19/10/2019 at 23:16, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

Yes it is one of those things that seem to be going full circle. Things like the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbosail ot the other alternative the Rotor Ship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotor_ship .

 

Interesting ideas and quite efficient in some circumstances. Although the emission reduction aspect is somewhat nullified by the need for some form of conventional motor to drive them. Presumably solar cells and batteries for work at night but I suspect a bit of an engineering nightmare to find room for all that and cargo.

 

Nearly 50 years ago when I was in my middle twenties I worked for a period in a shipping agency where I had to, amongst other things, turn out at all hours to meet incoming ships. I remember one arrival where the ship was guided into the dock by tugs then swung to line it up with the wharf, but done with a little more gusto than was necessary. The ship moved sideways rather rapidly straight at the wharf and smacked into it with considerable force and everything on the wharf including us and cars all got lifted into the air. Fortunately the wharf's pilings were springy but the effect was something to behold. So I hope these remote control crew less ships have better means of control. :blink: 

 

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I've been doing some research to build myself a layout set around the 1840s-50s and one of the things I've noticed on a lot of the early locomotives do not seem to have wheel weights on the driving wheels, does anyone know when they first start being adopted? And does anyone know a source of suitable wheels in 00 Gauge? Also are there any manufacturers of the Hackworth plug type wheels? Many Thanks

 

 

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Not strictly railway-related, but at least early steam traction. A good long while ago there was discussion of Dr William Church's experimental locomotive Surprise:

Whilst looking through the Derby Registers for something else, I came across this illustration of a steam road carriage of 1833 by, I assume, the same Dr Church. On the 14 April 1916, someone in the Derby CME's department though it worth recording photographically - perhaps for a lantern slide talk:

 

36713230_DY10451DoctorChurchsSteamCoach1833.jpg.0477eba33db5d029bf5c8f4bfeb9e355.jpg

 

NRM DY 10451, released under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike (CC BY-NC-SA 3.0) licence by the National Railway Museum.

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The SSPL blurb provides more information: 

 

"Engraving by Josiah Allen after John Cooke showing the steam carriage designed and built by Dr Church of Birmingham in 1833. The carriage operated on a daily basis between Birmingham and London, at an average speed of 14 miles per hour. It had an unusual design, with three solid wheels, and could carry 44 passengers, 22 inside the carriage and 22 outside. Steam-powered coaches operated between various English towns between 1820 and 1840. The increased popularity of the rapidly expanding railway network, as well as opposition from operators of horse-drawn coaches, who physically blocked roads and persuaded the government to impose crippling tolls, was largely responsible for driving the steam coaches out of business."

 

Here's a highly coloured version of the same print:

 

image.png.e76960d488ea82d3e107b97706c6c332.png

 

Public domain (Wikipedia).

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According to the "online A-Z of 3-wheelers" : "Dr Church’s 3-wheeled steam coach was completed in 1833 by Dr Church of Birmingham. (UK). The vehicle ran daily backwards and forwards from Birmingham to London  at an average speed of 14 mph.  The steam coach was able to carry 44 passengers housing 22 inside and 22 outside.  The wheels of the steam coach were solid and were all in a single line, unlike 3-wheeler configurations of modern 3-wheelers [not according to the illustration!]. Due to the width of the wheels and the weight of the vehicle, the coach  flattened the ground as it drove over it.  Dr Church’s steam coach proved to be most successful until a new law dictated that steam vehicles had to be limited to just 3 mph".

 

In fact the statement about the service running is untrue as the steam carriage never made more than a few trial runs and the company (The LBSC no less) was dissolved after three years. The idea that there were regular steam carriage services between several towns is unsupported by any documentary information, or illustrations.

 

The Liebig collectors card compounds the errors by claiming the vehicle ran from Gloucester to Cheltenham

church_william_1831_steam_omnibus_trade_card_front.png

Edited by webbcompound
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3 minutes ago, webbcompound said:

The Liebig collectors card compounds the errors by claiming the vehicle ran from Gloucester to Cheltenham

 

 

Dr Church seems to have moved his rail traction experiment - the Surprise - from the London & Birmingham to the Birmingham & Gloucester, so I wonder if trials of the steam carriage might also have been made in that direction?

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I wouldn't know which was worst, being "inside" and fearing that each jolt and lurch would be the last, or being on top and seeing your doom as you're pitched out of your seat!  14mph on solid wheels on that road?  Arghh!!!  ANd I hope that tiller steering mechanism has a bit of gearing in it...

 

3 minutes ago, webbcompound said:

The wheels of the steam coach were solid and were all in a single line, unlike 3-wheeler configurations of modern 3-wheelers [not according to the illustration!].

 

I wonder how it'd keep upright, even if the wheels were more like those of a road-roller.  Is it more probable that they were very broad and almost "in line abreast"?  Of course that particular configuration is of that most recently used by Bond and Reliant 3-wheelers.  The current Morgan 3-wheeler is the opposite way round, 2 in front and one behind, for a bit more stability when cornering!

 

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It would appear that there were a handfull of steam carriage services, Hancock's vehicles starting with "Enterprise" on short journeys in London for instance,  which ran for a short while before an amendment to the Turnpike Act  made them unprofitable. A later vehicle of his was called "Autopsy" which doesn't sound very auspicious.

1280px-Entreprise.JPG

Edited by webbcompound
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On 30/11/2019 at 15:16, harryjgregory said:

I've been doing some research to build myself a layout set around the 1840s-50s and one of the things I've noticed on a lot of the early locomotives do not seem to have wheel weights on the driving wheels, does anyone know when they first start being adopted? And does anyone know a source of suitable wheels in 00 Gauge? Also are there any manufacturers of the Hackworth plug type wheels? Many Thanks

 

 

I too am trying to model some of these earlier locomotives and find Hackworth wheels, or lack of them, a problem.

 

Has anyone tried the Newman Miniatures 3D printed ones? I guess the other options would be either etched brass overlays or 3D printed centres inserted into Gibson or Ultrascale tyres.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

 

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Some copies of Mechanics Magazine from the 1830s are available on-line, including some from 1833 via Grace's Guide (there are others elsewhere), so you can probably read a detailed contemporary account.

 

MM, incidentally, contains a huge amount of railway material, but it is a tough old read, because of the way that journals were laid out and typeset, and because authors then seemed to think that verbosity was a good substitute for informative detail.

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I would advise utmost scepticism regarding these reports of road steam carriages giving successful service. Firstly on the grounds that putting boiler, firebox and passenger compartment on the same frame proved next to impossible on the railways, even with the advantage of only needing the power to run on smooth rails and gentle gradients. And secondly that the only road steam vehicles we know that were successful were in effect mobile power units (traction engines) or highly specialised work tools (road rollers). There were a small number of successful steam powered passenger vehicles towards the end of the 19th century but, crucially, these appeared after Mr Dunlop had invented the pneumatic tyre. They, and the small number of steam lorries, also benefited from developments in steel making and working that were unavailable in the 1830s which made smaller boilers and geared transmissions possible.

 

We also have the evidence of the Rainhill trials available to us. Rocket and Sans Pareil were the successful designs (Sans Pareil failed on the day but went on to give as many years of profitable service as Rocket did), but Novelty failed to live up to the hype. And it's Novelty that deployed the technology that road vehicles attempted to use.

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Posted (edited)

In their 2020 range, Hornby have announced Rocket with three coaches....

 

 

 

Edited by Hroth
Euphony, and spelin...
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The photos on the Hatton’s web site show it to be a little gem.  I doubt it will have smoke tho’.

 

Tim

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Posted (edited)

there is a set of prints being sold individually of 1830's and 40s locos, some of which are stockton & darlington and 2 of them Newcastle & North Shields (N&NSR). the rest i cant figure anything out, by faint or eligible writing or nothing to go on at all

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/m.html?_odkw=drawing&_ssn=westvillageartdealer&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xtrain.TRS0&_nkw=train&_sacat=0

Edited by sir douglas
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5 hours ago, Hroth said:

In their 2020 range, Hornby have announced Rocket with three coaches....

 

 

 

Now we just need a Planet, and some second class coaches, oh, and a Northumbrian ...

Seriously, great to see it back.

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1 hour ago, Ian Simpson said:

Now we just need a Planet, and some second class coaches, oh, and a Northumbrian ...

Seriously, great to see it back.

Go the whole hog and do a Patentee and a Lion too.....  :crazy:

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A sharpie 2-2-2 would have really covered a lot of bases.

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On 06/01/2020 at 09:15, Hroth said:

In their 2020 range, Hornby have announced Rocket with three coaches....

 

 

 

 

Simon Kohler must have uncovered the old moulding tools

 

 

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Wagons too...

 

485392084_Ackermann1831passenger.jpg.bed4d79b7d7cca1a3884acc263d2d279.jpg1106842910_Ackermann1831goods.jpg.20e6010a2d1cda0ff1ad4ab678e8ff4b.jpg

 

So we have Business Class and Executive class in the top train, Premium Economy and Economy in the second one. Plus ca change ......

Edited by whart57
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3 minutes ago, whart57 said:

 

Simon Kohler must have uncovered the old moulding tools

 

 

 

New tooling, apparently.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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