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Rails of Sheffield/Dapol/NRM Announce OO gauge Stroudley A1/A1X


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On 09/07/2020 at 19:03, Otis JB said:

Well I suppose it does compared to the likes of Bachmann and Heljan's prices but maybe not when compared with the competition. Additionally, if you take Hornby's new Rocket, while not perfect it effectively costs the same as these terriers if you estimate each coaches' worth at £20 (a considerably low estimate) which is quite astonishing considering its' size, detail and fidelity. Just because Bachmann values their new 0-6-0 at £130+ doesn't mean it's worth it.


Value is only created when something has Utility and Warranty.

.. ie it looks like what you expect and works like you expect.

 

How well it provides both determines value.

A Lima 117 looks less like a 117 than Bachmanns.

A Lima 117 certainly doesnt work as well as Bachmanns.

So the lima one, to me has less value than the Bachmann one.

 

Thats really the only fair comparison you can make, as thats the only two 117’s on the market.

 

if you want to compare Realtracks 2 car 156 (£230) to Bachmanns 3 car 117 (£314). Then your comparing Apples and Pairs, but the price of fruit is still comparable.

 

If you want to compare Rocket to 117, then I dont see the point, theyve never met in Reality, your not comparing multiple units, nor even relevant technology, merely comparing a plastic model to another... why not compare a Class 117 to a £20 CD player.. both plastic, from china with a 12v motor ? Or How about a class 117 to a £300 Mercedes wing mirror... again plastic with a 12v motor..
 

simplistically speaking... Theres no electrics in Rockets coaches, no lighting, no complex couplings... Rocket is in essence a n gauge model on oo gauge wheels with a bunch of wagons behind it..It doesnt even have that many separate detailed parts. Nice, Delicate, Highly accurate, but a DMU it is not.
 

I value both at their pricing, I suspect though Hornby is laughing more than Bachmann at what price for what, especially on volumes sold.

 

Value is only what you see, if you don't see the value, then its just not the right model for you, but it doesn't make it not worth it to others.

 

 

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

How well it provides both determines value.

A Lima 117 looks less like a 117 than Bachmanns.

A Lima 117 certainly doesnt work as well as Bachmanns.

So the lima one, to me has less value than the Bachmann one.

 

Thats really the only fair comparison you can make, as thats the only two 117’s on the market.

 

 

 

As you say that "value" has a personal choice element also. My middle son* would rather have two Lima 117s and be able to enjoy running them together or past each other, than have one Bachmann one. His "value" comprises different elements and he is probably not so worried that "A Lima 117 looks less like a 117 than Bachmanns", but has a play factor instead. Me, I will go down the Bachmann route when I need a 117 as my values tie in with yours.

 

Each to their own, and quite right. 

 

*he is 13 but I think this also is true for some older modellers.

 

Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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But going back to Terriers it is much more personal.

 

You could get 3 Hornby for 2 Rails terriers. or 1 Hornby plus a coach and a couple of wagons for 1 Rails. 

 

But it then depends on the ERA and how accuracy comes into it and is firebox flicker more important than not etc. 

 

It all ends up very personal choice, I guess the Terrier is popular enough for both to exist and sell.

 

..... and so it goes on.

 

p.s. I guess with modern manufacture you will always get good uns and bad uns whatever you go for.

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On 15/07/2020 at 18:21, Roy Langridge said:

 

As you say that "value" has a personal choice element also. My middle son* would rather have two Lima 117s and be able to enjoy running them together or past each other, than have one Bachmann one. His "value" comprises different elements and he is probably not so worried that "A Lima 117 looks less like a 117 than Bachmanns", but has a play factor instead. Me, I will go down the Bachmann route when I need a 117 as my values tie in with yours.

 

Each to their own, and quite right. 

 

*he is 13 but I think this also is true for some older modellers.

 

Roy

 

True words (highlighted) Roy,

 

I'm an example of your last point. I have the OLD Hornby WC&PR Terrier (latest prod'n batch though) and was gifted a new Rails one 10 months ago for a major birthday; so a special present. What a treat I thought, until the delays began, problems, COVID, delays, problems (*2 it seems now). Still no sign and as I'd rather a present than a promise I swapped gifts for a delightful and faultless Peckett. I've since found out (but not yet confirmed by Rails) that limitations with the DCC socket would prevent my adding a stay alive to this loco. Something that I need for my present setting until I someday relay all my track.

 

Am I happy with my decisions? Very. Regarding the old Terrier, I've attended to my loco's average running by adding some better wipers and a stay alive. Then some notable coarse modelling features have been refined.

 

Knowing my luck and based on the reports for the Rails model, I'd have got a poor runner or faulty one. Deliveries and returns each are taking 2-3 months to/ from Oz and TBH I can do without all that hassle.  I might consider one if they ever get discounted, WC&PR being a somewhat niche market so it will be interesting to see how well they go with all the issues and delays.

 

I feel it was a huge pity that Rails caught a "100 year storm" during what promised to be a most exciting project and generally have handled matters very well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by BWsTrains
addition for clarity
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Well, I have a sound-fitted Terrier and I'm not very happy. I had to carry out a decoder reset several times to get it to respond, then the delay before it starts moving is far too long; I've adjusted the CVs to cut it in half and it’s now reasonable.—.though still too long.

 

The rear coupling mount is canted to one side so I'll need to adjust that too. Had this been pre-COVID it would have been returned.

 

The one good thing is that, once it started responding, the actual sound itself is pretty good.

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10 hours ago, Fireline said:

Well, number 5 has arrived, and I am pleased to report that it's good. Well done Rails, for your refusal to give up, and finding a good example! 

I just hope that one of the other four haven’t been sent to me! :unsure:

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On 21/07/2020 at 18:08, truffy said:

I just hope that one of the other four haven’t been sent to me! :unsure:

And now we all wait to see what the reworked batch, supposedly due at the end of this month, is like.

 

Will it be the model it should have been in the first instance ?

 

Or once a dog, always a dog ?

 

From a purely personal viewpoint, I sincerely hope it's the former.

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1 hour ago, WisTramwayMan said:

Will it be the model it should have been in the first instance ?

 

Or once a dog, always a dog ?

 

From a purely personal viewpoint, I sincerely hope it's the former.

 

What an appropriate metaphor in a discussion about Terriers. 

Best wishes 

Eric  

Edited by burgundy
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I have purchased a Rails/Dapol Terrier with sound. My locomotive did not want to start by itself it needed a bit of assistance. I cleaned the wheels and it still would not start nor slow run everytime it stopped it would not restart. I am well used to Zimo sound decoders and this is not one of their characteristics. As my other small locomotives all work on the same lengths of track I returned it to Rails on the 14th they told me there was not a replacement available I asked for a refund to which they agreed and to order a non-sound version. They then seven days later told me it was waiting to be tested! I clearly told Rails I did not want it back. Despite emails saying they will refund so far nothing has happened and my trust in them is almost exhausted. This not refunding promptly is a stupid approach as I have over the past 4 year purchased over £4,000 worth of models from them and I will probably cancel everything else I have on order. The Terrier looks great but I don't want a static display item costing £239 plus postage. So be warned after sales is everything.

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Was the sound still running when it wouldn't start ?

Mine did that a few times from new but after a few runs backwards and forwards down my 2m test track it seemed to be ok.

I assumed it just needed running in but i don't have anything to do that on at the moment. 

 

I might test it a bit more, don't want to find out once the warranty has expired that it has an issue.

 

Jim

 

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2 hours ago, Chuff34006 said:

I have purchased a Rails/Dapol Terrier with sound. My locomotive did not want to start by itself it needed a bit of assistance. I cleaned the wheels and it still would not start nor slow run everytime it stopped it would not restart. I am well used to Zimo sound decoders and this is not one of their characteristics. As my other small locomotives all work on the same lengths of track I returned it to Rails on the 14th they told me there was not a replacement available I asked for a refund to which they agreed and to order a non-sound version. They then seven days later told me it was waiting to be tested! I clearly told Rails I did not want it back. Despite emails saying they will refund so far nothing has happened and my trust in them is almost exhausted. This not refunding promptly is a stupid approach as I have over the past 4 year purchased over £4,000 worth of models from them and I will probably cancel everything else I have on order. The Terrier looks great but I don't want a static display item costing £239 plus postage. So be warned after sales is everything.

 

Hi,

 

Sorry to hear you've had an issue. I have sent you a PM and will happily look into this for you.

 

Thanks
Oliver

 

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6 hours ago, Oliver Rails said:

 

Hi,

 

Sorry to hear you've had an issue. I have sent you a PM and will happily look into this for you.

 

Thanks
Oliver

 

 

Hello Oliver,

 

Have you had any update as towards the last batch of Terriers at all? :)

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Received my non-sound fitted 4S-010-006 yesterday to replace the problamatic sound fitted one which I returned to Rails. All the return refund probelm are now sorted.  I fitted the Zimo MX659N18 decoder I purchased of YouChoose, putting the body back on was a bit more of a challenge it look a lot of wiggling then it suddenly fitted. Unlike the previous one this one ran fine straight out of the box. I use Tillig track and it went through the double slips and point without any hesitation. Starts and stops with no problem. The motor sounded a bit noisy at first, a bit of tweaking of the motor control CVs in the Zimo decoder and it became quieter. Set up the chuff rate for the YouChoose sound I was using and away it went. You don't get a large volume from this setup due to the small size of the cube speaker. The sound is good and I have yet to setup/tweak the random sounds. Now it not only looks good but runs very well! Only query why no coal in the coal bunker! I will have to put some real coal in as per my other locomotives. I have two more on order and wonder how they will perform when they arrive (in time for Christmas?)

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On 30/07/2020 at 13:06, Chuff34006 said:

Only query why no coal in the coal bunker! I will have to put some real coal in as per my other locomotives.

Personally, I prefer no coal, or at least a load that’s easily removed or covered with something more authentic looking. But that’s just me. 

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19 hours ago, truffy said:

Personally, I prefer no coal, or at least a load that’s easily removed or covered with something more authentic looking. But that’s just me. 

No, it’s not just you (count your “agrees” :)). Despite some serious efforts on the part of manufacturers to improve the appearance of the moulded plastic coal, it still doesn’t look convincing to me. It’s certainly very unusual to make no attempt to model coal (Heljan’s 009 locos are another example) and I dare say that a few people will leave the model as it is; either through ignorance or because they like it modelled as if construction were just completed. I have partly filled the bunker on mine with real coal.

 

Likewise, I have coaled my Hornby Southern liveried Terrier, which has coal rails. However, turning to W10 Cowes, I noticed a tiny gap between the coal and the bunker. In went a blade and, after some forceful levering, the coal came off with a loud crack. I was left with this.

 

1637970331_W10CowesCoal.jpg.13a99be8beeefd32c94187913ba3b01b.jpg

 

No wonder it’s so heavy for its size! I haven’t decided yet what to do about it. Either I’ll glue the plastic coal back on or try to add enough small coal to conceal the shelf without piling the coal too high. One point against the Hornby Terriers without coal rails.

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On 08/07/2020 at 16:57, Oliver Rails said:

Hi,

 

Sorry for the delay in a response. Yes I can confirm that the DCC fitted and DCC sound fitted models are the initially released models are beginning to be despatched. These are fitted here in the UK by Dapol and therefore are arriving with us in small batches. Initially it is the black version which have arrived. We are processing orders in date order.

 

The remaining models are still on track for delivery late July.

@Oliver Rails any update on when they are going to be delivered to you?

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On 27/07/2020 at 21:17, Garethp8873 said:

 

Hello Oliver,

 

Have you had any update as towards the last batch of Terriers at all? :)

 

Following on from the previous update regarding the slight defect. Over the last few weeks following feedback which was given on a small proportion of the early A1 deliveries, we have made some improvements to our outstanding Terrier models.

 

We expect to see the eagerly awaited outstanding versions early next month.

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I am not having much luck with my Rails/Dapol 4S-010-006 A1X Terrier. It was running well until yesterday when it stopped moving and smoke came out of it. No it does not have a smoke generator it was electrical smoke. I quickly shut off the power and removed it from the track. It still runs in Analogue mode witha strong smell of burnt wiring. I tested the decoder in my ESU decoder tester and it produced all the sounds and runs the motor in bothe directions. I will be returning this Terrier to Rails my faith in its quality is somewhat low at present.

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Wondering if someone can offer some advice, as rails has yet to respond. 

 

I'm planning on repainting my terrier when it arrives. This will require some alterations to be made to the body.  I've sprung for the sound fitted version, and my main concern revolves around what happens if something goes wrong.

 

If I repaint the loco but don't touch any of the electronics, and something fails, am I still covered under warranty? If it's something 'common' am I covered?

 

Thanks in advance!

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30 minutes ago, Jack P said:

I repaint the loco but don't touch any of the electronics, and something fails, am I still covered under warranty? If it's something 'common' am I covered?

Cosmetic changes also usually apply I’m afraid as the loco has been altered and can’t be exchanged without additional work to swap chassis. That’s why it’s usual to include something about repair or exchange and you are advised to check a loco before altering anything. 
Rails are the only ones who can answer that if they will provide exceptions to a standard warranty which may incur additional charges because of swapping bodies. 

 

Edited by PaulRhB
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On 13/07/2020 at 21:10, wainwright1 said:

Hi All.

 

I have acquired five of the Hornby terriers and am very pleased with them. There are a couple of Rails ones which I would like to get, but I have been put off by the reports of the assembly problems, in particular the twisted footplates. Without wading through all the previous posts on this blog, can anyone advise if these problems are particularly prevalent on certain locos or if they afflict all the types ?

I think that the problems with the running on the Hornby model are due to the rather flimsy pickups they are using which are not very positive in maintaining contact as the wheels move from side to side. This problem  is not exclusive to Hornby, as I have found that those on Hattons P class and Andrew Barclay and some other recent locos are very similar. Have other members found the same problems ? I have made careful adjustments with a fine pair of tweezers, but avoided applying too much pressure as they will snap off.

All the best

Ray

 

Hornby are not always perfect either. Here is my IOW style number 13 which arrived yesterday. Note the deformed running plate towards the front of the chassis. I managed to fix it though.

 

 

 

Terrier.jpg

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The looks odd.

Is the footplate deformed or is there something wrong with the chassis.

The axles look like they are not level with each other, is the quartering on the first axle out, emphasised by the coupling rod ? I don't  know how much lateral free play there is.

Possibly the body is not fixed onto the chassis properly or the chassis is twisted. Difficult to tell.

Does it run o.k. ?

 

Nobody responded to my enquiry as to whether the problems with the Rails Terriers were mostly with one batch (livery) or if they were across the board. It would be useful to know.

 

All the best

Ray

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