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Greater Anglia's Stadler Flirt - Class 745 & 755

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I abandoned any attempt at using the 2nd day of my rail ticket today. Have had to change plans so an attempt can be made again tomorrow, but is it going to be any better??

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14 minutes ago, Johann Marsbar said:

I abandoned any attempt at using the 2nd day of my rail ticket today. Have had to change plans so an attempt can be made again tomorrow, but is it going to be any better??

 

Unlikely!

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5 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

I abandoned any attempt at using the 2nd day of my rail ticket today. Have had to change plans so an attempt can be made again tomorrow, but is it going to be any better??

 

Not until the reason for the grounding is lifted.

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9 hours ago, uax6 said:

I spoke to one of the relief siggys from that way yesterday and its an interesting issue. The crossings on the way to Cromer don't have treadles, nor do they operate on normal track circuits. They apparently operate on 'decreasing voltage' circuits, ie as the train gets closer to the crossing the voltage in the track circuit gets less, finally getting to a critical value when the crossing operates. Now this works very well with the existing units, but it would appear that these are a lot more light footed, and so don't actually get seen all the time by the circuits. 20mph ESRs and local control are the net result of this issue for the minute, which is both expensive and a pain in the Harris for the signalman.....

 

Andy g

 

It's slightly more than what you were told Andy - the tracks measure the speed of the train so the barriers are always down for more or less the same time, no matter how fast the train is travelling.

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7 minutes ago, russ p said:

Are they all grounded? 

 

Apparently - yes

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7 minutes ago, russ p said:

Why are they blaming it on signalling problems?  On the news the other night they were blaming old trains failing which also wasn't the case

 

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2019-12-06/major-signalling-problem-affect-trains-lines-across-east-anglia/

Possibly because they don't understand, or can't comprehend, the intricacies and interfaces involved between the fixed infrastructure and a moving train? 

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1 minute ago, iands said:

Possibly because they don't understand, or can't comprehend, the intricacies and interfaces involved between the fixed infrastructure and a moving train? 

 

Or more like they won't admit there is potentially a problem with their new trains 

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Oh dear, it seems that the new trains are not fit for purpose, 21st century technology does not work on a system from the 20th century.   

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As someone well outside the area, are the 755s currently banned from operating? 

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11 minutes ago, ColinK said:

As someone well outside the area, are the 755s currently banned from operating? 

 

Banned is a harsh word but they are not permitted to work on their own or in passenger use (ie they can be dragged), tomorrow is another day though so it may all change

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4 hours ago, russ p said:

 

Or more like they won't admit there is potentially a problem with their new trains 

 

Seems a bit of deja vu when the Pacers and Sprinters were fitted with Track Circuit Activators.

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5 hours ago, russ p said:

 

Or more like they won't admit there is potentially a problem with their new trains 

Russ youre spot on. They are pinning the blame solely on NR and their equipment when the truth is that the new units are completely at fault.thats why the 158s, 321s,360s and hauled sets are working fine but the stadlers are all grounded. They're so light that the wheels are suffering badly with contamination. We have had MOMs tonight checking each train as its arrived at norwich, yarmouth,ipswich, lowestoft and cromer to see whether the train is fit to do its return journey.

To top it off, I was "in earshot of a conference call" tonight and heard GA top management tell their subordinates that under no circumstance are they to tell the press or customers that the stadlers are at fault and to pin the blame on a signalling fault. Its bloody disgusting behaviour, NR are NOT at fault on this on and they're taking full advantage of the fact that the press are believing them.

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7 hours ago, russ p said:

One of the siggies at the psb tonight was on Norwich panel when the emergency alarm went off and listened in on the conversation between the trowse siggie and the driver of the train that went through the level crossing. Went on for nearly 20mins as neither the driver or siggie had come across the issue before. To make it worse, S&T were working in the relay room at the crossing when it happened and they said none of the relays engaged when the train approached, they looked out the door to see why the barriers werent activating and a car went over the crossing seconds before the train went through. Apparently the car was missed by 0.25 of a second.  All because the train didnt activate the crossing.

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9 hours ago, Trainshed Terry said:

Oh dear, it seems that the new trains are not fit for purpose, 21st century technology does not work on a system from the 20th century.   

 

It's not so much that as just another example of loss of corporate memory which seems to be happening a lot.  If you trace the history of diesel and electric traction from the modernisation plan onwards the same theme recurs.  Design faults and/or construction issues which either condemn entire classes or require expensive and time consuming remediation (eg Class 47 engines) or require fleets to be stopped on safety grounds (eg Class 303) followed by expensive and time consuming remediation.  I'm not aware that there have any changes in the laws of physics, sod or Murphy and so it can still happen. 

 

The bottom line is that new stuff always has bugs whoever makes it and whatever their reputation may be and in a sane world service introduction and stock cascade plans should recognise that and plan accordingly.  There seems to be a breed of managers now that think everything in the past was as a result of bad management and that it won't happen again.  They then have nowhere to go when it does.  They resort to trotting out the new vogue mantra "lessons will be learned" and then make the same mistake next time.  Makes me want to weep it really does.

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Trains which don't reliably activate track circuits are nothing new, so you'd expect there to be known solutions available.

 

The problem is that the old trains have already been sent on their merry way, leaving GA with nothing. Which is down to the structure of the industry more than anything else.

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1 minute ago, Zomboid said:

Trains which don't reliably activate track circuits are nothing new, so you'd expect there to be known solutions available.

 

The problem is that the old trains have already been sent on their merry way, leaving GA with nothing. Which is down to the structure of the industry more than anything else.

Absolutely correct!:help:

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8 hours ago, Siggie in the east said:

One of the siggies at the psb tonight was on Norwich panel when the emergency alarm went off and listened in on the conversation between the trowse siggie and the driver of the train that went through the level crossing. Went on for nearly 20mins as neither the driver or siggie had come across the issue before. To make it worse, S&T were working in the relay room at the crossing when it happened and they said none of the relays engaged when the train approached, they looked out the door to see why the barriers werent activating and a car went over the crossing seconds before the train went through. Apparently the car was missed by 0.25 of a second.  All because the train didnt activate the crossing.

 

This does not quite match the facts as presented by the RAIB:

 

At about 19:53 hrs on Sunday 24 November 2019, a 4-coach class 755 passenger train, operating the 19:45 Norwich to Sheringham service, was approaching Norwich Road automatic half barrier level crossing, to the north-east of Norwich. The crossing barriers were in the lowered position until the train, travelling at about 45 mph (72 km/h), was about 200 metres from the crossing. The barriers then lifted, the level crossing warning lights went out and cars began to cross the railway. The train driver applied the train’s emergency brake and sounded its warning horn, but the train was unable to stop before reaching the crossing. No road vehicles were struck but a car passed in front of the train around a quarter of a second before the train went over the crossing.

 

So the crossing did activate, but then the barriers lifted and the warning lights went out.  If there were S+T guys working in the relay room at the time, then it may well be a bit early to blame the trains...

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27 minutes ago, Titan said:

So the crossing did activate, but then the barriers lifted and the warning lights went out.  If there were S+T guys working in the relay room at the time, then it may well be a bit early to blame the trains...

 

If the train vanished from the crossing control track the system would assume the train had passed clear and raise the barriers. Bit early to start hinting at S&T failures ...

 

Only 136 cancellations earlier today.

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19 minutes ago, beast66606 said:

 

If the train vanished from the crossing control track the system would assume the train had passed clear and raise the barriers. Bit early to start hinting at S&T failures ...

 

Only 136 cancellations earlier today.

AIUI, unless the type of controls for the crossing in this particular incident are different, the track circuits for AHB type crossings had to occupy and clear in sequence, including the "exit" TC at the crossing, in order for the crossing to act normally. If a TC occupied/cleared out of sequence, then the crossing "failed" and the barriers stayed down. No doubt in the fullness of time the RAIB investigation and report will inform us all of what did happen, and more importantly, what should have happened. 

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