Hornby dublo

[Il Grifone]

The later pins are much larger than the earlier ones*. This change took place with the release of the 4MT tank in 1954. At first they were force fitted, but, later on, the pin was riveted over on the inside of the wheel. These are a real pain to remove. It is necessary to push the pin right it tight and file off the raised portion  on the inside of the wheel which has to removed.

 

The chassis above has the mid period pins. They are quite tight, but should move. In fact these are loose. The rod should just have sufficient space to rotate without binding. It might be best to pull them out, straighten the rods clean everything up and reassemble. Obviously a new later type RH valve gear is required. As the pins are splined and cut their way into the wheel, brute force is required to fit them. I use my drill press, supporting the wheel from behind.

 

* The valvegear was always secured with these. As they are not subject to wear, there was no need for the larger ones.

 

At least one of the wheels, is off true. Tweaking with a screw driver will sort this. Finally check the back to back which should be 14.2mm (actually imperial (360 thou.?), but it's not that critical.

 

SEE LATER POST FOR FULL VERSION

Edited September 5, 2021 by Il Grifone

[Pak75]

1 hour ago, Il Grifone said:

 

 

The chassis above has the mid period pins. They are quite tight, but should move. In fact these are loose. 

 

At least one of the wheels, is off true. Tweaking with a screw driver will sort this. Finally check the back to back which should be 14.2mm (actually imperial (360 thou.?), but it's not that critical.

Thanks Dave. 

By mid period I presume you mean later grooved pins?

Also are you saying valve gear pin is the same pin as early coupling rod pin?

 Happy to use more force, just didn’t want to break anything.

I noticed rear drive axle is quite loose with considerable play in it. I watched Ron Dodds video about inserting axle bush with usual admiration and mounting trepidation...

I hope laconic Dublo Surgeon in UK can help although valve gear is apparently in short supply.

i think this loco had a hard life before I bought it

 

 

[Il Grifone]

3 hours ago, Pak75 said:

Thanks Dave. 

By mid period I presume you mean later grooved pins?

Also are you saying valve gear pin is the same pin as early coupling rod pin?

 Happy to use more force, just didn’t want to break anything.

I noticed rear drive axle is quite loose with considerable play in it. I watched Ron Dodds video about inserting axle bush with usual admiration and mounting trepidation...

I hope laconic Dublo Surgeon in UK can help although valve gear is apparently in short supply.

i think this loco had a hard life before I bought it

 

 

 

My post is stuck in edit mode and refuses to save. ????????????

 

Yes mid-period is grooved large diameter pins, but not riveted over on the inside. The valve gear is held in place by the the early thin pins, but the crank pin is the later large diameter. Steady force is unlikely to break anything; a hammer is another argument.

 

A loose rear axle could probably be fixed with Araldite. Fitting a bush is really a lathe job, as the hole has to be drilled true to avoid wobble.

Wrenn insulated axle bushes are still available on eBay from Wrenngalore (usual disclaimer), but the price has increased somewhat since I bought some a few years ago.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400055873006?hash=item5d25302dee:g:tQIAAOSwjytaYLgM

 

A search for A4 valvegear produced one, but the price is not Grifone friendly!

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=dublo+A4+valvegear&_sacat=1&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15

 

 

 

[Wolseley]

15 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

A search for A4 valvegear produced one, but the price is not Grifone friendly!

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=dublo+A4+valvegear&_sacat=1&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15

 

 

 

 

 

It would be cheaper to buy a rolling chassis, not to mention being less work: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/133858487127?hash=item1f2a966b57:g:SlUAAOSwHy5hJT9f

[Il Grifone]

It does add £23.24 (estimated) in charges however!   and the coupling rods are rather worn.

 

This is the edited version of my earlier post:-

 

The later pins are much larger than the earlier ones*. This change took place with the release of the 4MT tank in 1954. At first they were force fitted, but, later on, the pin was riveted over on the inside of the wheel. These are a real pain to remove. It is necessary to push the pin right it tight and file off the raised portion  on the inside of the wheel which has to removed.

The chassis above has the mid period pins. They are quite tight, but should move. In fact these are too far out. The rod should just have sufficient space to rotate without binding. It might be best to pull them out, straighten the rods, clean everything up and reassemble. Obviously a replacement later type RH valve gear is required (ensure to get the later type with the splined pin**). As the pins are splined and cut their way into the wheel, brute force is required to fit them. I use my drill press, supporting the wheel from behind.

* The valvegear was always secured with these. As they are not subject to wear, there was no need for the larger ones.

** I have fitted the smaller pin with padding  (I used a piece of PVC wire insulation), but this was for a conversion to 2 Rail. A repair is best done with the correct part.

At least one of the wheels, is off true. Tweaking with a screw driver will sort this. Finally check the back to back which should be 14.2mm (actually imperial (360 thou.?), but it's not that critical.

As the armature is out, the motor will require remagnetising or neodymium replacements. I use two series pairs of 6mm cube magnets (much cheaper than the full size replacements) padded out with a couple of washers. These are about the same strength as the original AlNiCo ones, so there is no danger of the wear problem allegedly suffered as a result of using of the larger single magnet.

 

I don't know what went wrong it declined to save it!

Edited September 5, 2021 by Il Grifone
Dogs' walkies....

[Wolseley]

2 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

It does add £23.24 (estimated) in charges however!

 

Perhaps because I linked to the Australian eBay site rather than the UK one.  When I view both in the Australian version of eBay, the cost of posting the rolling chassis (to Australaia) is £18.08, whereas the cost of posting a bit of valve gear is £13.75.

 

Mind you, that's nothing like $134.62 to post a Wrenn transfer for a Windsor Castle tender from the UK to Australia that I saw one eBay vendor quoting.......

[Il Grifone]

4 hours ago, Wolseley said:

 

Perhaps because I linked to the Australian eBay site rather than the UK one.  When I view both in the Australian version of eBay, the cost of posting the rolling chassis (to Australaia) is £18.08, whereas the cost of posting a bit of valve gear is £13.75.

 

Mind you, that's nothing like $134.62 to post a Wrenn transfer for a Windsor Castle tender from the UK to Australia that I saw one eBay vendor quoting.......

 

Yes the postage is £18.08, but it talks of customs/import duty on top, estimated at around £5.

 

For interest I looked up charges for Italy  - £13.26 + £7.95. Ridiculous, I can get myself from Britain to Italy for less than that by Ryanair!

[Pak75]

David/Jim

Thanks very much your responses, esp David for persevering despite IT issues. I now understand pins better, thanks. So each loco has 4 separate pins, the valve gear already has a pin soldered to it for centre wheel?

 

I had spotted valve gear on Ebay but also baulked at price; I did not spot chassis so thanks for that Jim.

Prices are extortionate but that is supply and demand -there is virtually no supply in Australia so i will i have to accept going rate, inc gilt-edged postage if i want item. I am guessing Covid has interrupted sourcing locos from car boot sales, jumble sales, etc in UK. 

 I don't like to get chassis just for spares, but may be only solution. 

 

PS Colchester bred lad...

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Pak75
Typo

[Wolseley]

1 hour ago, Pak75 said:

Colchester bred lad...

 

 

Another Ex-Pat then.  I'm from Brechin, in Scotland, but have been in Australia most of my life.....

 

Jim

[RJS1977]

8 hours ago, Pak75 said:

 

Prices are extortionate but that is supply and demand -there is virtually no supply in Australia so i will i have to accept going rate, inc gilt-edged postage if i want item. I am guessing Covid has interrupted sourcing locos from car boot sales, jumble sales, etc in UK. 

 

 

Actually boot sales, being outside, reopened pretty early on.

 

One enterprising group of modellers even managed to organise a 'car boot model railway exhibition' with the layouts either on tables or the rear parcels shelves and powered by batteries!

[Il Grifone]

If I'd let IT problems put me off, I'd have given up a long time ago.... 

 

The A4s have 4 pins to secure the 2 sets of valvegear to the chassis block. Other models have different arrangements e.g. the Duchesses have a pin either side and the cylinders are secured by nuts and bolts.

Then there is the crank pin to hold the return crank, which should be set forward with the crank at bottom centre of course (unlike Tri-ang, HD always got this right!*)

 

* It seems that the Chinese don't understand M. Walschaerts' invention either looking at modern models. I don't see the point of producing highly detailed models and getting something so basic wrong. (Sorry it's one of my pet hates....)

 

OFF TOPIC

It looks like I'm going to have to become an ex-pat immigrant. We have been blocked here in Italy by Covid and we have collected a few pets in the interim.... Unlike my wife, who lost her right to UK citizenship under Thatcher*, I can still claim Italian citizenship (and part with something like 1000€ for the privilege!). We didn't see the point back then as we were both EU citizens. Our daughter is in the fortunate state of having dual citizenship.

As regards modelling supplies, Sardinia is rather badly served. I believe there is a model shop in Cagliari, but that is rather a long way away. Example, Vallejo paint 3€ + carriage 3€!

 

* My thoughts on this would take us deeply into the taboo subject of politics, so I will refrain.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Il Grifone

[Pak75]

22 hours ago, Pak75 said:

. I now understand pins better, thanks. So each loco has 4 separate pins, the valve gear already has a pin soldered to it for centre wheel?

 

Sorry didn’t express myself very well...

Is this summary correct?

On the A4 the valve gear is secured by two thin pins to chassis either side (4 in total) and shaft of valve gear connects by large later pin to centre driving wheel/coupling rod. Other driving wheels have same larger pin (4 in total) securing coupling rod.

Trying to get order from Uk correct in my head

Edited September 6, 2021 by Pak75
Typo

[Il Grifone]

The important bit is the valve gear. The pins are just that. A bit beefier than the normal size, but something suitable should be available in Australia. At worst, one can use a tiny screw. One of my two rail conversions had a Wrenn track screw as a crank pin for ages. (This screw would itself be collectible now. They disappeared from the market with the demise of Wrenn fibre-based track.)

Edited September 7, 2021 by Il Grifone

[Wolseley]

On 06/09/2021 at 20:27, Il Grifone said:

 

OFF TOPIC

It looks like I'm going to have to become an ex-pat immigrant. We have been blocked here in Italy by Covid and we have collected a few pets in the interim.... Unlike my wife, who lost her right to UK citizenship under Thatcher*, I can still claim Italian citizenship (and part with something like 1000€ for the privilege!). We didn't see the point back then as we were both EU citizens. Our daughter is in the fortunate state of having dual citizenship.

 

 

You had me wondering about our daughters' position regarding citizenship after I read that but, as my wife became a naturalised Australian citizen before 1992, when Italian citizenship laws were changed to allow dual citizenship, it looks like they miss out.  They can hold both Australian and UK passports though (and our elder daughter used her UK passport a number of years ago when she was living and working in first Switzerland and then Spain) as I am still a UK citizen.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Wolseley

[Il Grifone]

2 hours ago, Wolseley said:

 

You had me wondering about our daughters' position regarding citizenship after I read that but, as my wife became a naturalised Australian citizen before 1992, when Italian citizenship laws were changed to allow dual citizenship, it looks like they miss out.  They can hold both Australian and UK passports though (and our elder daughter used her UK passport a number of years ago when she was living and working in first Switzerland and then Spain) as I am still a UK citizen.

 

 

 

I wasn't aware or any reason for loss of Italian citizenship, even pre-1992.

I did however find this online:

https://www.avvocatofrancescolombardini.it/cittadinanza-italiana/

 

I was rather pleased to find that one only has to pay 250€ for citizenship through marriage. I thought it was considerably more.

 

The whole thing is complicated however and I have to admit to getting lost, as soon as I start reading anything in 'legalese' even in English....

[Wolseley]

3 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

The whole thing is complicated however and I have to admit to getting lost, as soon as I start reading anything in 'legalese' even in English....

 

I read the Italian version although I think the main reason I could follow what it was saying was that I had read basically the same information in English a few hours earlier.  I'm not sure that I totally understood either though.

 

As for me, I'm perfectly happy being a UK citizen with permanent residency rights in Australia........

[Wolseley]

I finally got around to fitting a rear bogie to my Dublo 0-6-4T and it has been running quite happily around the layout (or at least has been running quite happily since I fixed the back-to-back of the leading driving wheels, which was almost 1mm more than it should have been).

What? A Dublo 0-6-4T, I hear you say? there wasn't such a beast, was there? Well, there is now. I took a Dublo 0-6-2T and replaced the trailing wheels with a bogie from a Dublo 2-6-4T. I couldn't use the bogie as it was, as the arm connecting it to the chassis wasn't long enough. The mounting point on the chassis is very close to the gear wheel on the rear axle too, so anything I could easily make would have fouled it. In the end, I took a spare Dublo A4 trailing truck (I have several in my spares box), which is mounted to its chassis in almost an identical way to the 0-6-2T, cut off the sides and the hook at the rear, and screwed the bogie (minus arm) to it. I still have to touch up the paintwork where I modified it, but here it is:

 

[Nearholmer]

Interesting idea.

 

How about combining bits of N2 and R1, to make one of these https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SECR_J_class

 

The Met Railway M2 is another possibility; would look very flash in original livery.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Wolseley]

Food for thought.  Even an 0-6-2T in Metropolitan livery could be tempting.  this one is going to be a bit different from those though.....

 

[Il Grifone]

The M2 was a project but will probably never get done now. (Brexit and all that....)

[railroadbill]

 

 

 

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/people/widow-amazed-to-discover-husbands-secret-vintage-model-railway-collection-which-could-be-worth-up-to-ps30000-3391094?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

 

But does anyone really need 8 Mallards? I've only got one of them...  shame he never had a layout, that would have been very spectacular.

[Colin_McLeod]

4 hours ago, railroadbill said:

But does anyone really need 8 Mallards?

 

Agreed. Other names are available.

[railroadbill]

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Agreed. Other names are available.

H'mm, now that's quite a different matter, allowing a justifiable increase in one's collection. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by railroadbill

[Il Grifone]

"I knew a bit but I didn't know how much he had collected. His sister was shocked by the volume as well. I think he did it when I wasn't in," said Mrs Batty.

"He had lots of boxes that were in plastic boxes, so you couldn't see what was in them and they lined the walls. It was one of those rooms where everything got dumped."

 

That's how you do it! What SWMBO doesn't see....

 

She said: "He had an amazing train set when he was a kid - his dad worked at British Aerospace as an engineer. He set it up so it had electric lights and it was really beautiful. Then his mum got cross as he left it out for too long and she sold it while he wasn't there - I don't think he ever forgave her."

 

I can understand that. Such child abuse causes lifelong traumas!

 

I thought their estimate for 'Ludlow Castle' was rather on the low side. In fact she made £440 (presumably + buyer's premium etc.)

 

https://www.davidduggleby.com/auctions/23092021948/TheAdrianBattyCollectionofModelRailway.aspx#MOVEHERE

 

There's still this track cleaning wagon, if anyone is interested:

 

https://www.davidduggleby.com/auctions/23092021948/1/4070/HornbyDublo4654RailCleaningWagoninTonyCooper1984box

Edited October 1, 2021 by Il Grifone

[railroadbill]

You're right about sneaking the stuff in, David!

 

Having now looked at the auction site, it's interesting what prices were actually made. I thought the boxed sets were quite cheap. £200 for station seemed high.  Lots of boxed stuff which probably helped to sell it (including a lot comprising just empty boxes). Accessories like switches and signals did well, as did 30 catalogues for £190!

Don't remember the Co-Bo 2 rail freight set, though.

Edited October 1, 2021 by railroadbill