Hornby dublo

[locomad2]

On 14/02/2022 at 15:10, Il Grifone said:

Dublo rolling stock can be pin pointed using the usual brass inserts, but require shorter axles than the standard 26mm. I have done a WELTROL, but left it at that (originality and all that*). The design of the droppers does not permit a standard axle length as he amount of crank varies. This does not matter with the standard axles of course (unless they are too tight or the back to back is too wide (it varies quite considerably) and cause binding).

 

* Or just too lazy....

 

I assume you mean those 2.5mm brushes either brass or graphite plastic peco? sold years ago, think fitted to wonderful wagon series and K's kits.

 

Myself never used them on standard HD chassis as I never found a way to drill the hole from inside, however found they worked well on old Triang non pin point axle stock. They are easy to push the old axle out leaving a big hole which just needs enlarging a bit, then pressed in with new pin point axles already in place with wheel.

 

Here's a old Britannia tender fitted years ago,

 

Never got round to repainting the axle boxes so shows well pushed in graphite plastic brushes,  peco type A wheels, about 1:75 slope test.

 

Peco type A and standard HD plastic wheels can be bent in to fit, however found over time this causes the axle never to be properly straight and causes wagon to wobble over time.

 

Standard HD wagons you can remove the axle holder and replace with standard 2 rail plastic wheels, with peco wheels the axle is longer and often find 2nd hand HD wagons fitted with them  years ago ( 3 rail to 2 rail conversions), and have the pin point bit of the axle cut off crudely with something like wire cutters.

 

I've often come across so called "mint" HD wagons at toy fairs, HRCA collector's meets etc with tin plate  wagons in mint condition in original blue boxes, cardboard inserts ( coupling protectors) etc only to find Peco type A wheels fitted, such is the joy of buyer beware

 

 

 

[Il Grifone]

The bearings I intended are the top hat type. (The Romford version has slightly different dimensions to other makes for some strange reason

I've always found Peco A/HD* wheels prone to wobble and gave up on them many years ago. There was a layout description in the model press (RM - 50s?) which stated that they had converted Dublo stock to 2 rail by cutting the axles (sacrilege) and springing in Peco wheelsets. I thought at the time this was a recipe for disaster. Peco nylon distorts very readily.

You should be able to refit Dublo wheels to stock, as Dublo tinplate will usually support being bent twice (Don't try this with Trix - their tinplate is less forgiving!). Tell tale scratches always remain however (or am I just ham handed?).

*Presumably R/T as well though I have little experience with the steamroller version. A/HD were allegedly suitable for BRMSB and HD standards. I'm not sure of the exact compromise (never having taken a vernier to the things) as BRMSB wheels are too narrow and have insufficient flange for Dublo track. By eye, they are thicker than BRMSB wheels and I think the flanges are a little deeper.

[Pak75]

Hi

What i was hoping would be simple task seems to be far more complex and more acronyms than a plate of alphabet spaghetti... 

Therefore i decided to buy some Hornby R8098 pin point axles and make my own investigations.

Firstly, Hornby R8098 metal pin point wheels are exactly same dims as HD plastic - axle length  a tad over 25mm.

Their profile is also identical.

As expected, the metal wheel axles directly substitute for plastic axles.

However, the hole in the HD hanger is not a 2mm circle but more elliptical in shape. This means conical ends of axle have considerable play in the hole and wagon 'floats' up and down more than with plastic wheels. Bending the hanger inwards as much as possible partially corrected this but still room for improvement.

The HD wagon axle space is 26mm across W-iron to W-Iron. Next step to try some top hat bushes inserted into hole in hanger which will hopefully leave enough room to accommodate axle length without jamming.

Meanwhile, HD metal wheels on the way from Ebay UK.

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Pak75
Typo

[DCB]

I used Lima  OO wheel sets which have HO axles in H/D  bogies to get electrical pick up. I used Romford top hat  pin point axle bushes with the outer pin point filed flat. Some I solder into H/D hangers others just push in. It means the bogie is live to one rail and needs plastic couplings or careful pairing but its a very nearly friction free pick up system.  I suppose you could use two insulated wheels per axle, and sell the axle with two non insulated wheels on eBay for 3 rail wagons.   

Hornby replacement wagon wheels are a direct replacement for Castle etc bogie wheel if you file off the pin points and grind away the chassis and bogie to clear, and to my eye look much more prototypical than most Jackson etc replacements.  No use for 15" radius curves but mine are fine onj 3rd Radius

I actually prefer H/D driving wheels to Romford.  Pre loco specific Romfords don't look much like any locomotive wheels I have ever seen.  There is no choice over 24mm  but Hornby Dublo don't have nuts to become loose. My Triang Halls have H/D Castle wheels (24mm) an M7 A4 wheels (short crank throw ( 22mm) and my Hornby Grange and 61XX have 4MT Tank wheels (22mm long crank throw )

Edited February 24, 2022 by DCB

[rockershovel]

Interesting thread

[cctransuk]

14 hours ago, Pak75 said:

Hi

What i was hoping would be simple task seems to be far more complex and more acronyms than a plate of alphabet spaghetti... 

Therefore i decided to buy some Hornby R8098 pin point axles and make my own investigations.

Firstly, Hornby R8098 metal pin point wheels are exactly same dims as HD plastic - axle length  a tad over 25mm.

Their profile is also identical.

As expected, the metal wheel axles directly substitute for plastic axles.

However, the hole in the HD hanger is not a 2mm circle but more elliptical in shape. This means conical ends of axle have considerable play in the hole and wagon 'floats' up and down more than with plastic wheels. Bending the hanger inwards as much as possible partially corrected this but still room for improvement.

The HD wagon axle space is 26mm across W-iron to W-Iron. Next step to try some top hat bushes inserted into hole in hanger which will hopefully leave enough room to accommodate axle length without jamming.

Meanwhile, HD metal wheels on the way from Ebay UK.

 

 

 

 

You may find that https://peco-uk.com/products/plastic-bearings are of use in this application.

 

They were introduced back in the 1960s to allow pinpoint axles to run in plain axle holes designed for Hornby Dublo, etc. wheelsets.

 

Being nylon, they can be cut to length, and produce superb running.

 

John Isherwood.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

You may find that https://peco-uk.com/products/plastic-bearings are of use in this application.

 

They were introduced back in the 1960s to allow pinpoint axles to run in plain axle holes designed for Hornby Dublo, etc. wheelsets.

 

Being nylon, they can be cut to length, and produce superb running.

 

John Isherwood.

Weren't they originally intended for converting 3-rail vehicles to 2-rail?

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Weren't they originally intended for converting 3-rail vehicles to 2-rail?

 

They were primarily developed by Peco in order to allow their then-new Hardlon pinpoint wheelsets to fit into their Wonderful Wagons, which had previously been designed for plain axles.

 

They were offered as separate items so that modellers could modify existing stock to 2-rail, pinpoint bearings, etc.

 

John Isherwood.

[Pak75]

9 hours ago, cctransuk said:

You may find that https://peco-uk.com/products/plastic-bearings are of use in this application.

 

HI 

Thanks for comments and especially for your help John - very much appreciated.

 

Being plastic allows them to be trimmed to size as required - fantastic.

Have ordered 3 packets from a store in Melbourne.

 

Cheers

[Wolseley]

I do have this tendency to start on a project before I've even got the previously started one even halfway, but I suspect I'm not alone in that.  Yesterday I got one of my part finished projects out and, with any luck, I might even get it finished this time:

 

[Wolseley]

Well, a bit more work done on it tonight and It is ready for its first coat of paint tomorrow.  As far as the body is concerned, I filled the gap on the footplate with Tamiya Putty where the bunker had been extended (the sides had already been patched with some styrene sheet), a funnel that looks more like a funnel has been fitted (an old Crown Line fitting intended for a B12 - not right for what I’m doing here, but the right length of funnel would look wrong due to the boiler being a bit too high) and a safety valve cover added (fashioned by hand from one cut off a scrap Tri-ang Albert Hall which was then sawn in half and about 2mm of styrene sheet glued in-between the two halves, the whole thing then being filed to shape before being glued on).

 

I did have a problem with the chassis when I tested it (it was a spare picked up cheaply on eBay a couple of years or so ago for spares).  I had tested it previously but only ran it in a forward direction and it ran well but with the occasional stutter (for lack of a better word) which I put down to it not having been run for a few decades.  This time, however, I also tested in in reverse but, instead of running, it moved about a quarter of an inch and started making nasty buzzing sounds as the mechanism locked up.  After that, it needed a bit of persuasion to run forwards as well.  A bit of dismantling and poking around and I realised what the problem was.  It seems it was cobbled together from bits and pieces for sale as a running chassis and two parts didn’t match.  The armature had an early model coarse thread and the gearwheel was a late model fine thread.  A rummage through my spares box produced a coarse thread gearwheel from an 0-6-2T and, once fitted, the chassis ran perfectly in both directions.  This did, of course, necessitate the removal of one wheel, which is something I don’t like doing with a Dublo chassis.

 

Anyway, here it is now:

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Wolseley

[Il Grifone]

Peco Wonderful Wagons always had pin-point bearings. They were not all that successful due to the nylon pinpoints (which bent quite readily) and a brass bearing cup which lack ed a proper seat for the being rounded. (I use them for Kitmaster coach bogie with plain Nucro axles. A bit of friction doesn't hurt with passenger trains, where the loose coupled effect of pin-point axles is not required.) For wagons, they can be replaced with the Hardlon bearings and metal axles and then run superbly.

 

The 0-6-4T looks like a project I had in mind for a Metropolitan Railway locomotive. It never got started....

Dublo wheels need to removed from their axles either with a proper puller or gentle tweaking with a screw driver . As the axle is splined, there is no difficulty with quartering (provided you don't mix them up and keep them with the appropriate axle.

Dublo wheels grace  several of my Tri-ang locomotives (the originals are awful), though some have been fitted with later Hornby wheels. The 2-6-4T, Castle and 8F are particularly fine. It's a pity the Castle ones are 2-3mm undersize. (Correct over flanges to fit inside the splashers?)

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Il Grifone

[Wolseley]

It's getting there.  It just needs one more coat of. the base body colour and then the smokebox, roof and other black bits, and the buffer beams and so on.  And I have to paint the wheels.....

[Wolseley]

On 27/02/2022 at 08:29, Il Grifone said:

Dublo wheels need to removed from their axles either with a proper puller or gentle tweaking with a screw driver . As the axle is splined, there is no difficulty with quartering (provided you don't mix them up and keep them with the appropriate axle.

 

 

I used the gentle tweaking with a screwdriver technique.  It worked - this time.....

[SuperD]

"I do have this tendency to start on a project before I've even got the previously started one even halfway, but I suspect I'm not alone in that."

I'm a fully paid up member of this club, LOL!  I have about 6 on the go at the moment and must make an effort.  If I need some parts I tend to start something else whilst waiting for delivery.

 

Cheers

[TerryD1471]

21 hours ago, SuperD said:

"I do have this tendency to start on a project before I've even got the previously started one even halfway, but I suspect I'm not alone in that."

I'm a fully paid up member of this club, LOL!  I have about 6 on the go at the moment and must make an effort.  If I need some parts I tend to start something else whilst waiting for delivery.

 

Cheers

I don't claim to have started that club, but I've certainly been a member for a very long time!

[Wolseley]

On 25/02/2022 at 21:05, Wolseley said:

I do have this tendency to start on a project before I've even got the previously started one even halfway, but I suspect I'm not alone in that.  Yesterday I got one of my part finished projects out and, with any luck, I might even get it finished this time:

 

 

Well, there's still a bit of work to do, but I think you can now see where this is headed.  A model that Meccano Ltd neglected to produce: a Hornby-Dublo Highland Railway 39 class banking tank.

 

 

[Il Grifone]

I've just found these interiors on eBay. They are sold for the D21 BR(W) composite, but obviously will fit the other livery variants (usual disclaimer).

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353911105345?hash=item5266bee741:g:wgoAAOSwB3xiChNZ

Edited March 6, 2022 by Il Grifone

[Pak75]

Big thanks to owner for work in migrating this blog to new host server. All my projects were stalled temporarily...

 

Peco Wonderful nylon bearings arrived and I was able to find what seems to be last packet of Hornby spoked wheels in Australia.
Once hangers were removed, clearance from one side chassis to the other was 26.5mm. Peco bearing are 2.5mm long and 2.5mm diameter so after much experimenting, I determined that I could not use hangers at all to fix Peco bearings to. I then cut 1.5mm off end of bearings and glued one on one side of the chassis before refitting hanger. After locating axle in glued side, fitting the axle and hanger to other side required balancing the cut-down bearing on end of axle and hanger before carefully easing into pre-glued position.  Worked well provided bearing was less than 1mm as too long otherwise, wheels either jammed or could not get other bearing into place at all.
Very fiddly and frustrating. My inability to cut plastic parts to same length and at right angles continues to amaze me and carpet monster got a couple of bearings.

First wagon took hours, others much quicker.

Had to take care to make sure axles were at same height and all four wheels touched track at same time. One had to be redone.
When I came to do other coal wagons, I noticed there was no retaining screw. The wagon body is fixed to chassis either by ends of plastic spigots being burred over or by the actual rivets for coupling.
Having experience of messing with rivets, I decided to leave well alone.
Did 6 wagons this way and started to replace other solid plastic wheels with metal wheels which also arrived from UK.
All now passing slope test.... yayyy!
Yes, it was unavoidable to leave scratches on body around hanger tabs.

You can just see cut down glued bearing at bottom RHS.

I only hope now that HD did not allow axles to float up and down in hangers for a reason....
 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Pak75
Addition

[Il Grifone]

The coupling rivets can be pressed out (I use my pillar drill) . They can then be rivetted back in (or glued 😽 ). The hanger slots were intended for compensation. Unfortunately the method doesn't work and on properly laid track is not necessary. (Dublo track on the carpet could be a different matter....)

 

(We don't seem to have a 'secret' emoji anymore, so I used the nearest. It's supposedly a kiss, but looks more like it's covering it's mouth in an aside.

[great central]

A question if I may please?

A work colleague has asked me about possible remagnetising of Hornby Dublo locos or the use of neodymium magnets, also the availability of spare brushes.

He tells me that his father has dug out his old trains, which I'm assuming are Dublo, and started running them again.

Some are running rather slower than normal which we agree is probably weak magnets after all this time, the locos are from the 1950s he thinks, unfortunately I don't have any more info than that at the moment.

What advice can I offer regarding the neodymium magnets, not having any experience of them myself, and does anyone now do remagnetising and spare brushes? 

We're in the Nottingham area.

 

[SR71]

I've got both the things you are after from here.

 

https://mainlytrains.github.io/spares/PriceList.htm

 

Really helpful guy and one you've got your head into his website it's relatively easy to find what you want. Some aren't keen on neo magnets as they say they are too powerful for the bearings. They will confirm if there are any other issues though and if you aren't planning on doing exhibition miles I'm sure they will be fine.

[cypherman]

On 06/03/2022 at 14:39, Wolseley said:

 

Well, there's still a bit of work to do, but I think you can now see where this is headed.  A model that Meccano Ltd neglected to produce: a Hornby-Dublo Highland Railway 39 class banking tank.

 

 

Hi Wolseley,

I know your pictures are not showing, so I took a look online to see this class 39. It looks an awful lot like the Drummond X class I built from a H/D 0-6-2. So perhaps you could do the same for the Class 39.

[Il Grifone]

The full size neodymium magmets are rather too strong (but whether they actually cause damage to the bearings I wouldn't like to say) and I have compromised with 6mm cube magnets padded out with steel washers or nuts in the past. Finding a faulty Triang magnet*, I couldn't use this solution as a bolt passes through the centre of the magnet, but recently I found some small ring magnets about 5mm thick which solve this problem.

 

* Tri-ang magnets seem to hold their magnetism better than Dublo which are rather variable. Some are fine after all this time and others useless. It could be a question of the composition of the magnetic material as occurs with the zinc alloy?

[Ruffnut Thorston]

There are definitely different types of magnets...

 

Alnico was, I believe, the type used in the X.04 type motors.

 

Someone out there will know about magnets! 🤔