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Gordon A

Fowler 150 hp diesel shunter

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I am carrying out some research into the 150hp 0-4-0 Fowler diesel shunter.

 

post-7071-0-49141000-1538653777_thumb.jpg

 

The information I have is that 120 of these engines were built in the second world war for the government to move munitions.

After the war many were transferred to B.R. with some going to industrial use.

 

post-7071-0-43437400-1538653917_thumb.jpg

 

1) I am looking to identify as many build numbers and build years as possible ie: 22878/1939 the prototype engine in my picture.

Besides the afore mentioned loco I am aware of locos 22882/1939, 22888/1940, 22891/1940, 22896/1940, 22912/1940, and 22915/1940.

 

2) How many of these locomotives still survive today?

    I am aware of the engine at Erwood and one at the Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway.

 

Many thanks

 

Gordon A

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The one at Pontypool and Blaenavon is an 0-6-0, as far as I know unique. I've measured one at Dalmellington and a TH rebuild on the same frame at Peak Rail. I think there's one at Embsay but I've not seen it yet and possibly one on the Derwent Valley. 

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After the war many were transferred to B.R. .....

 

 

Not as far as I am aware.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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The one at Pontypool and Blaenavon is an 0-6-0, as far as I know unique. I've measured one at Dalmellington and a TH rebuild on the same frame at Peak Rail. I think there's one at Embsay but I've not seen it yet and possibly one on the Derwent Valley. 

 

Yes, just seen that while trawling for information.

 

Gordon A

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Not sure how easy it is to find (nothing coming back from a quick search), but a copy of "John Fowler & Co., Locomotive Works List" by Frank Jux and published by the Industrial Locomotive Society (1985) should have the information you require.  These locomotives were built for the Air Ministry, Admiralty, War Department and Royal Ordnance Factory.  Most of the Air Ministry's locomotives were rebuilt by Fowler in the 1950s, but only three each of the WD and ROF locomotives were so treated.  The Works list gives details of the depots and dates of rebuilding.

 

The prototype 150HP engine type 4C was actually JF 22237/1937.  According to my reckoning (i.e. counting the entries), there were 110 built for the various offices of war by 1945 (a couple of exceptions), the traditional consecutive works numbering ending with 23012/1945 (Air Ministry 271).  Five (b/ns 22878, 22888, 22889, 22971 and 22982) still  exist.  However a further 46 150HP/4C locomotives were built for UK industry and export (India, metre gauge) between 1945 and 1949, with works numbers reflecting the subsequent JF classification scheme (i.e. 42000xx).  Four of these also survive.

 

The survivor at Pontypool & Blaenarvon is JF 22497//1938 - basically the same engine and rating, but as noted a six-wheeler, built for an industrial concern.

Edited by EddieB
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After the war many were transferred to B.R. with some going to industrial use.

 

Not as far as I am aware.

 

The LMR civil engineer had about 6 or 7, and the SR had 2.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/15738242917

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/BRITISH-DIESEL-AND-ELECTRIC/PRE-TOPS-DIESEL-LOCOMOTIVES/i-K2P68Jp

 

I think these were all new builds though.

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The LMR locomotives were numbered ED1 - ED7.

 

ED1 was former LMS no. 2, JF 21048/1935, an 88HP design with "RH" engine.  The remainder were of the 150HP/4C type covered in this thread. 

 

ED7 was JF 22891/1940, built for ROF Bridgend and acquired by BR in 1955.  ED2-ED6 went straight to British Railways and were part of the batch of 46 (see my previous post), JF 4200041-45 (1949).

 

The Southern ones were: SR 400S/BR(S) DS400, built as JF 22934/1941 for ROF Aycliffe and acquired 1945; and SR 600S/BR(S) DS600, built as JF 22997/1943 for ROF Thorp Arch (Yorkshire) and acquired 1947.

Edited by EddieB
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The LMR locomotives were numbered ED1 - ED7.

 

ED1 was former LMS no. 2, JF 21048/1935, an 88HP design with "RH" engine.  The remainder were of the 150HP/4C type covered in this thread. 

 

ED7 was JF 22891/1940, built for ROF Bridgend and acquired by BR in 1955.  ED2-ED6 went straight to British Railways and were part of the batch of 46 (see my previous post), JF 4200041-45 (1949).

 

The Southern ones were: SR 400S/BR(S) DS400, built as JF 22934/1941 for ROF Aycliffe and acquired 1945; and SR 600S/BR(S) DS600, built as JF 22997/1943 for ROF Thorp Arch (Yorkshire) and acquired 1947.

 

So - only three of the wartime build were acquired by BR.

 

This accords with my impression that the statement that "After the war many were transferred to B.R. ...." was rather over-stating the case.

 

Thanks for chapter and verse on this.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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Thank you every one for the various bits of information.

 

22896/1940 went to Swindon for repair, then to Woolwich Arsenal before going into private industry, as did a number of the ex wartime builds.

 

I acquired quite a bit of information from  "opobs" - Bridgend ROF locomotives. (https://opobs.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/bridgend-rof-locomotives-1/)

(R.o.F = Royal Ordnance Factory)

 

I am going to visit the Fowler archive on Tuesday to see what plans they hold.

 

I am still interested in any further information on these locos.

 

Gordon A

Edited by Gordon A

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Not sure how easy it is to find (nothing coming back from a quick search), but a copy of "John Fowler & Co., Locomotive Works List" by Frank Jux and published by the Industrial Locomotive Society (1985) should have the information you require.  These locomotives were built for the Air Ministry, Admiralty, War Department and Royal Ordnance Factory.  Most of the Air Ministry's locomotives were rebuilt by Fowler in the 1950s, but only three each of the WD and ROF locomotives were so treated.  The Works list gives details of the depots and dates of rebuilding.

 

The prototype 150HP engine type 4C was actually JF 22237/1937.  According to my reckoning (i.e. counting the entries), there were 110 built for the various offices of war by 1945 (a couple of exceptions), the traditional consecutive works numbering ending with 23012/1945 (Air Ministry 271).  Five (b/ns 22878, 22888, 22889, 22971 and 22982) still  exist.  However a further 46 150HP/4C locomotives were built for UK industry and export (India, metre gauge) between 1945 and 1949, with works numbers reflecting the subsequent JF classification scheme (i.e. 42000xx).  Four of these also survive.

 

The survivor at Pontypool & Blaenarvon is JF 22497//1938 - basically the same engine and rating, but as noted a six-wheeler, built for an industrial concern.

 

Hello EddieB

 

Can you tell me where 22971 and 22982 are located please?

 

Gordon A

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Hello EddieB

 

Can you tell me where 22971 and 22982 are located please?

 

Gordon A

22971 is/was at Eden Valley Railway Trust, Warcop (Cumbria), 22982 based at Crewe Heritage Centre (although was rebuilt by Thomas Hill in 1963).

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22971 is/was at Eden Valley Railway Trust, Warcop (Cumbria), 22982 based at Crewe Heritage Centre (although was rebuilt by Thomas Hill in 1963).

 

Thank you for the info.

 

Gordon A

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The one at Pontypool and Blaenavon is an 0-6-0, as far as I know unique.

 That one has moved to Foxfield now and it well on it's way to be restored. Cosmetically it looks fantastic in lined blue livery, and yes it is unique.

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More information see link in my footer to the Leeds Engine site.

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I'm working on drawing the wartime version of this now, thanks to a GA from the museum in Reading, hoping to have at least a test etch in time for Scalefour North. This will also do for the two SR locos 400s/600s and BR ED7 but it's now apparent that ED2 - 6 are of rather different dimensions - shorter length over buffers of 21'4" and shorter 5'3" wheelbase (wartime ones were 23'5"/6'3"). That at least explains the measurements I made of one of the TH rebuilds which must have been one of this type.

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post-601-0-01745600-1548333723_thumb.jpg

 

Hope you don't mind me hijacking this thread, thought this photo might be of interest.

It shows 22918 in a scrapyard at Alfreton in June 1984, apparently it worked at ROF Chorley from new in 1940.

 

Douglas

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Thanks for the picture drjcontroller.

 

Any pictures or actual information would be welcome.

 

I passed the plans I purchased to Mike Edge, so if enough people are interested and can gently persuade Mike, a kit may appear.

 

Gordon A

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I've finished the basic drawing for the wartime built (mostly ROF) locos, not all the information was on the GA as there was no plan view and not many marked dimensions. Not only that but the buffer height was either incorrectly drawn or dimensioned - I've put them at normal standard height as I can't see anything else in all my photos of these.

593608256_ScreenShot2019-02-05at14_02_12.png.fb2377ede5f63a13fcbda39598e0ed09.png

There are a great many variations in detail with these locos but this should cover SR 600s (which I have to build for a customer) and ED7 of the LMR departmental locos.

ED2-6 are very different with a shorter wheelbase and overall length.

The wheels drawn above are from the GA but I can't find any photos of locos with these (presumably cast iron) wheels, most seem to have a 10 spoke steel wheel centre.

The main areas of conjecture are the exact width of the casings and footplate angle and the position of the exhaust if the large gas conditioner isn't fitted. There's little or no information on the interior of the cab and the controls.

I may well do the radiator as a one piece moulding, this would also allow for etching the later squared off radiator housing as an alternative.

At the moment I'm aiming at getting a test etch for this version done before Scalefour North in April.

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Looks good Mike.

Put me down for one please.

See you at S4N.

 

Gordon A

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On 04/10/2018 at 12:58, Gordon A said:

2) How many of these locomotives still survive today?

    I am aware of the engine at Erwood and one at the Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway.

 

Many thanks

 

Gordon A

There's one at the Derwent Valley, near York (4200022/48) and I think the ex-BOCM Selby one (4200003/46) is at the Embsay Railway, near Skipton.

 

There's a re-engined one, with the Fowler-rebuilt engine casing, at the Scottish Industrial Railway Centre, at Dunaskin (4200028/48).

1954947664_Waterside064.jpg.14629d8f926a6fefdc13845f9a4a5fee.jpg

 

31519631_990578471090420_3269275972674781184_n.jpg.58efcefd1b5c4a0b050ad5096e9da8db.jpg

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There's a nice sequence showing 22996 (different radiator arrangement to that shown in Mike's drawing) tootling around Northam, Southampton here:

 

Fowler 22996

 

JF 22996

 

Pollock and Brown, Northam, Southampton

 

My personal favourite is this one: 

 

Pollock & Brown  Fowler 0-4-0DM 22996/1943 running through the car park of Southern Television  en route from Northam Yard to  Pollock & Browns yard.

 

 

Adam

Edited by Adam
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On 07/02/2019 at 16:53, Michael Edge said:

I can put the alternative radiator arrangement in the etch if I get some dimensions.

 

Great! Assuming I was anywhere near one of the preserved examples, I would - can anyone help?

 

Adam

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