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13 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Also in the same package were a test print of a sprue of five bogies with adjustable adaptor brackets for NEM pockets as shewn in the previous posting. This particular sprue is as a compliment to the Cartic-4 kit. The grooves required a very slight amount of filing so the the brackets would locate easily.

 

Morning Gibbo

 

I gave a clearance of 0.03mm between the brackets and the grooves. I pulled this number out of thin air, and evidently it wasn't quite enough.

 

Let me know if you think it's worth experimenting with the clearance. If it was really only a very slight amount of filing then perhaps we should leave it as is, rather than risk turning the snug fit into a loose fit.

 

Cheers

Tom

 

 

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36 minutes ago, TangoOscarMike said:

 

Morning Gibbo

 

I gave a clearance of 0.03mm between the brackets and the grooves. I pulled this number out of thin air, and evidently it wasn't quite enough.

 

Let me know if you think it's worth experimenting with the clearance. If it was really only a very slight amount of filing then perhaps we should leave it as is, rather than risk turning the snug fit into a loose fit.

 

Cheers

Tom

 

 

Hi Tom,

 

Most of the filing was to remove a minute burr along the top edge of the grooves and also the small pips left by the sprue runners, so not much trouble really.

 

Gibbo.

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1 hour ago, Mike Storey said:

 

A question, that may be more for TOM - are the bogies designed to take Top Hats (or other bearing) with pin point axles? What wheelsets have you used? (I assume this will be in the instructions, but thought I would ask!)

 

Hello Mike

 

I reckon this is a question for both of us.

 

The bearing is simply a conical hole to accept the point of the axle. I think that the plastic is hard and smooth enough for this, although my tests aren't very scientific. I put the wheels in, observe that there is minimal play, then spin the wheel with my finger - it spins for a good long while. Gibbo may well have made some more meaningful tests.

 

I've been testing with a set of wheels that Gibbo sent me, but I don't know who made them (they have hard pointy metal axles). I've also been testing with some 12mm Hornby wagon wheels (wrong diameter, but that makes no difference to the tests).

 

There is no reason (apart from the time, effort and cost!) not to make an alternative set of bogies with cylindrical holes to take a metal bearing.

 

Gibbo, do you have more to say on this? Can you tell us what wheels you're using? I've been meaning to ask in any case.

 

 

Regards

Tom

 

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1 hour ago, TangoOscarMike said:

Hello Mike

 

I reckon this is a question for both of us.

 

The bearing is simply a conical hole to accept the point of the axle. I think that the plastic is hard and smooth enough for this, although my tests aren't very scientific. I put the wheels in, observe that there is minimal play, then spin the wheel with my finger - it spins for a good long while. Gibbo may well have made some more meaningful tests.

 

I've been testing with a set of wheels that Gibbo sent me, but I don't know who made them (they have hard pointy metal axles). I've also been testing with some 12mm Hornby wagon wheels (wrong diameter, but that makes no difference to the tests).

 

There is no reason (apart from the time, effort and cost!) not to make an alternative set of bogies with cylindrical holes to take a metal bearing.

 

Gibbo, do you have more to say on this? Can you tell us what wheels you're using? I've been meaning to ask in any case.

 

 

Regards

Tom

 

 

3 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

Thanks for the further update Gibbo. It really looks promising.

 

A question, that may be more for TOM - are the bogies designed to take Top Hats (or other bearing) with pin point axles? What wheelsets have you used? (I assume this will be in the instructions, but thought I would ask!)

 

Regards, Mike

Hi Chaps,

 

I have used both the black nylon wheels that Hornby fit to their Freightliner flats and some 10mm diameter Alan Gibson wheel sets. Both types work perfectly fine as far as I able to ascertain, the only comment I would make is that the conical pockets are likely best for the Hornby black nylon wheel sets, although should anyone wish to use the metal axles of the Alan Gibson wheel sets then brass bearings would be no doubt better for prolonged or heavy use.

 

I feel that it is rather up to Tom to decide if he wishes to adapt his CAD program to produce a bogie that accepts brass bearings which have nothing more than a 2mm X 2mm diameter hole instead of the conical pocket currently used. The two types of bogie could easily produced also, I would have to research the sizes and clearances to allow for such an adaption and see if the distance between the bogie side frames is suitable as it is or whether it requires adaption also. I'm sure that it would be an easy thing to sort out , as Tom says, just the time and effort involved, but it is Tom's time and effort so it is entirely up to him.

 

Gibbo.

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The separate-bearing option is now on my to-do list, and one fine day I'll do it! Not soon, though....

 

Gibbo, as you've doubtless noticed, I'm very circumspect about offering any of these 3D prints for sale until they've been thoroughly tested. With the 5-bogie-2-pocket sprue I think we might be nearing this point, but I'll hold off until you report successful use of the NEM pocket.

 

Cheers

Tom

 

 

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57 minutes ago, TangoOscarMike said:

The separate-bearing option is now on my to-do list, and one fine day I'll do it! Not soon, though....

 

Gibbo, as you've doubtless noticed, I'm very circumspect about offering any of these 3D prints for sale until they've been thoroughly tested. With the 5-bogie-2-pocket sprue I think we might be nearing this point, but I'll hold off until you report successful use of the NEM pocket.

 

Cheers

Tom

 

 

Hi Tom,

 

The concept for the coupling adaptors seems great although I haven't glued the extension bracket arms into place. The only thing I have to say about them is that they seem a little fine in section and seeing how easily the sprue runners snapped off I feel that the extension bracket arms may benefit from being beefed up slightly. It would be inconvenient should they become broken due to a derailment. I would say anything between half and a full millimetre would be more than sufficient in both width and depth respectively. Having looked at the clearances available I would say half a millimetre depth would just clear the axle and perhaps quarter of a millimetre to the outsides to just clear the wheels and three quarters of a millimetre to clear the bogie pivot. 

 

I haven't any couplings to fit to the bogies for I don't actually use such couplings although I don't see that as a problem as far as assessment goes. I know you have said that you know that the dimensions are correct, as are the running heights for the pockets so that detail should be fine.

 

As for brass bearings I shall work out some dimensions for you in the next couple of days so that you may adapt your CAD files. With regard to the running of the bogie, should they be fitted with brass bearings that are correctly dimensioned and set then they ought to behave as any other bogie or wagon fitted with brass bearings. Knowing that the actual structure of the bogie print itself is certainly as strong a s the Hornby bogie of the same type there is no problem with regard that criteria.

 

Gibbo.

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  • 8 months later...

I've just come across this thread whilst searching for information on Cartics hoping to make my own. However, why reinvent the wheel when you are making a good job of it!

 

How is the project going? Do you have a ball park figure for the cost of a kit?

 

Look forward to seeing how you're progressing.

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9 hours ago, Wagpnmaster said:

I've just come across this thread whilst searching for information on Cartics hoping to make my own. However, why reinvent the wheel when you are making a good job of it!

 

How is the project going? Do you have a ball park figure for the cost of a kit?

 

Look forward to seeing how you're progressing.

Hi There,

 

I have been a bit busy this year with all sorts of things and not just the railway modelling, as a result the Cartic-4 project has been rather neglected for most of the last year. I did look at it a couple of months ago with regard having some etchings made for the hand rails, ladders and gratings that the cars run on but got no further on.

 

I can't remember exactly how much the laser cut parts cost but they were a slight over £100.00 as I remember, subsequent orders were to be cheaper as there was a nesting charge for all new plans that are cut. There are a couple of minor adjustments to the cutting plans which I have not yet had made which will make the build slightly easier. The Cartic-4 shewn is built form the original plan so nothing serious to sort out. The laser cut parts were supplied by the York Modelmaking Community linked below who may well supply a set for you should you enquire.

 

https://www.yorkmodelrail.com/community/

 

The bogies were supplied by TangoOscarMike, who may be found in the above thread, as he designed and had some printed which he then sent to me. I'm sure he would advise upon the Shapeways site that they are on and also price.

 

The concept of the kit is that the laser cut parts for the main bodies, the etchings for the fine details and the printed bogies would be available by order from the relevant suppliers and then wheels, couplings and buffers could be sourced separately.

 

Gibbo.

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Gibbo, I've been meaning to email you, but, you know how it is....

 

SInce we last spoke on the topic I've assembled my first etched bass kit (the Brassmasters Cleminson underframe) so I'm more familiar with the medium now. If you were to send me drawings I could probably render them into a suitable electronic form.

 

As for the bogies: our last interaction was that you tested a set with NEM coupling pockets on stalks, and suggested that the stalks could be beefed up a little. Since then I've done nothing (but I've always been planning to make a new version tomorrow). So maybe I'll do it soon (especially if someone in this forum asks me to!).

 

You and I were pretty happy with the running of the wheel in the plastic socket (the plastic is pretty hard) but I've been toying with the idea of making a set with cylindrical holes for metal bearings.

 

Cheers

Tom

 

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4 hours ago, TangoOscarMike said:

Gibbo, I've been meaning to email you, but, you know how it is....

 

SInce we last spoke on the topic I've assembled my first etched bass kit (the Brassmasters Cleminson underframe) so I'm more familiar with the medium now. If you were to send me drawings I could probably render them into a suitable electronic form.

 

As for the bogies: our last interaction was that you tested a set with NEM coupling pockets on stalks, and suggested that the stalks could be beefed up a little. Since then I've done nothing (but I've always been planning to make a new version tomorrow). So maybe I'll do it soon (especially if someone in this forum asks me to!).

 

You and I were pretty happy with the running of the wheel in the plastic socket (the plastic is pretty hard) but I've been toying with the idea of making a set with cylindrical holes for metal bearings.

 

Cheers

Tom

 

Hi Tom,

 

I really do need to pull my finger out in the Cartic-4 department. I have to say I think the bogies are just fine and as you say the NEM adaptors will be better should you beef them up. I can't send you any information because I've not done the drawings for the various parts that require to be made form etched brass. I also need to contact York Modlemaking Community to have the minor alterations to the laser cut parts. Perhaps the reemergence of posting on this thread might spur me to action.

 

I might even do the drawing for the walk way for the Fly Ash Presflo while I'm at it !!!

 

Gibbo.

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That's great, I'm pleased to read that the project is still live and thanks for your prompt responses.

 

I thought the price would be in that order, it is basically four wagons after all. Funnily enough, I was going to draw up the centre vehicles and use York Model Making myself!

 

I'll make a few enquiries and see what happens.

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  • 1 month later...
On 10/02/2019 at 20:17, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

I have painted the Cartic-4 set and it has come out quite well although there was slight bleeding under the masking of the lower deck. The reason for this is that it is quite tricky to get even my little finger in to press it down, i even used the end of a paint brush to try to make sure that the masking tape was firmly settled. There is a little touching up here and there and also repairs to the areas of failed masking but nothing much considering.

 

The colours used are BR Blue for the sides and Diesel Roof Grey for the inner faces of the sides and the deck surfaces. Diesel Roof Grey looks good for the deck colour but from what I can see in photographs the inner faces of the sides ought to be BR Rail Grey. I might repaint the inner faces of the sides but I think it might look too bright and will then require toning down by weathering, in which case it may be easier to leave it.

 

I think that I should perhaps have fitted the buffers before painting though!

DSCF0658.JPG.def60d06624768dac909245a47342e50.JPG

General view.

DSCF0659.JPG.018ce7b754a6a59b50a61368b6b98c1d.JPG

Side view showing the articulation brackets that requires painting black.

 

Gibbo.

 

Gibbo,

 

Sorry to hijack your OO thread for the Cartics but I'm in the process of building the N Gauge Society Cartic-4 kit and have got to the point of painting before attaching the frames to the chassis and I just want to confirm the paint colours.

 

I'm modelling the same period as you, sort of 75 - 85, and so the Cartics will be in blue, but after persuing Mr. Bartletts photos I've found it very difiicult to identify the clour as BR Blue, https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcartic4, it just looks a bit lighter???

 

Regards

 

Neal.

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The prototype Cartic-4 was built in 1964 so actually before Rail Blue was officially adopted in 1965. There's notes on the livery here; the prototype was in Ford blue. The lettering on the side of the prototype was in 'Transport' typeface which BR's Rail freight division was using prior to the Corporate 'Rail Alphabet'.

Edited by BernardTPM
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2 hours ago, Calnefoxile said:

 

Gibbo,

 

Sorry to hijack your OO thread for the Cartics but I'm in the process of building the N Gauge Society Cartic-4 kit and have got to the point of painting before attaching the frames to the chassis and I just want to confirm the paint colours.

 

I'm modelling the same period as you, sort of 75 - 85, and so the Cartics will be in blue, but after persuing Mr. Bartletts photos I've found it very difiicult to identify the clour as BR Blue, https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brcartic4, it just looks a bit lighter???

 

Regards

 

Neal.

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Hi Neal,

 

Great work with all that soldering in what looks to be a particularly fiddly kit, do post more as you go along.

 

As I am aware the BR owned Cartic-4 sets were BR blue however there were some owned by the MAT company that were a lighter shade of blue of which I don't know the shade. The insides of the Cartic-4 sets were painted Rail Grey although I toned mine down somewhat and painted them diesel roof grey as they seemed too bright.

From what I have seen in most photographs the wagons were so dirty that brown seemed to be the predominant colour !

 

The Ford ones as mentioned by @BernardTPM were in Ford's own blue which is RAL 5010.

 

Gibbo.

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5 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Oh for that kit to be blown up to 4mm for those of us with crap eyesight!

 

Mike.

Hi Mike,

 

When I pull my finger out my kit might be worth a go, I haven't got around to having any etchings done for the car decks yet though.

 

Gibbo.

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Hi Guys

 

I have two full kits of the OO Gauge version from inter city models which I need to make up so watching this thread with interest, although the kit doesn't come with the mesh sides which I may need to get made up at some point

IMG_5791.JPG

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Edited by Deltic Man
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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎11‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 22:01, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Mike,

 

When I pull my finger out my kit might be worth a go, I haven't got around to having any etchings done for the car decks yet though.

 

Gibbo.

Hi Gibbo, TOM and co,

 

When all the bits for this set of 4 are in place I'll be in the market for someone to make me up a set!

(No use trying something this complex myself, I could never do it justice!

 

(I know l've already prodded you elsewhere about this, Gibbo, but at that point I didn't know this thread existed!!)

 

Cheers

Paul 

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27 minutes ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Hi Gibbo, TOM and co,

 

When all the bits for this set of 4 are in place I'll be in the market for someone to make me up a set!

(No use trying something this complex myself, I could never do it justice!

 

(I know l've already prodded you elsewhere about this, Gibbo, but at that point I didn't know this thread existed!!)

 

Cheers

Paul 

Hi Paul,

 

I've sent you a PM explaining the state of play and that I intend that soon the project will move on somewhat.

 

Gibbo.

Edited by Gibbo675
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