Andymsa Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Looks like friewald software is stopping direct sales to the uk from 2019. I guess another knee jerk reaction to current political events. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted November 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2018 Not exactly. It's due to the way the EU now charges VAT. What will happen in 2019 will be the same arrangements as had to be applied to Switzerland in 2018, being another non-EU country. You'll still be able to purchase and upgrade Freiwald software products but the prices might be different.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted November 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2018 Here's a full explanation of the changes to the way Traincontroller will be marketed to UK users from January 2019. It would appear that it's for one year only, after which we will be treated for sales like any other non-EU country. So the message is, if you are thinking of purchasing a new licence, or upgrading to the latest version, do so before December 31st. http://freiwald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32313 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted November 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2018 That feels very poor given we’ve not actually left the EU. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 I think its rather like shooting oneself in the foot. How many won't bother upgrading, it's expensive enough already. And perspective first time users will look elsewhere, I train, roc rail ect. It would be interesting to know what percentage of sales there are to the uk but we won't find that out I'm guessing. But it will have to be some update to the program for me to consider the increased price. This change is from jan01 but we don't leave or fully leave until March and correct me if I'm wrong isn't it wanted to still have trade with Europe in some form. Or just get someone in Ireland to buy it for you lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted November 18, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2018 I've always found Mr Feiwald difficult to deal with. Our old layout - Widnes - was signalled from the outside, so the signalman could sit and chat to the public. As part of this I used to expound the virtues of TC and I'm sure several people went away and bought it because of this. I mentioned it to Mr F once and he became very aggressive and told me I needed a special license, obviously at huge cost, to demo the software, and my (our - the clubs) licenses would be revoked etc. etc. It was eventually resolved without cost but his attitude was very unpleasant - from then on I told people we use it because we have investment in it (time, effort and some licenses) but there are other products available which are a lot cheaper and will probably do what they want - so he lost a free salesman and I became a detractor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted November 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2018 That’s interesting. I’ve flirted with it variously, but always found their pricing a little tough to swallow, particularly with massive upgrade fees when they release a new version etc. It’s defended by those who’ve shelled out as being the best, but I’m definitely disinclined to support them based on that, and this pricing absurdity, which screams of money grabbing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 I'll be seriously looking at the competition before spending any more money with Mr Friewald. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted November 18, 2018 Author Share Posted November 18, 2018 I've always found Mr Feiwald difficult to deal with. Our old layout - Widnes - was signalled from the outside, so the signalman could sit and chat to the public. As part of this I used to expound the virtues of TC and I'm sure several people went away and bought it because of this. I mentioned it to Mr F once and he became very aggressive and told me I needed a special license, obviously at huge cost, to demo the software, and my (our - the clubs) licenses would be revoked etc. etc. It was eventually resolved without cost but his attitude was very unpleasant - from then on I told people we use it because we have investment in it (time, effort and some licenses) but there are other products available which are a lot cheaper and will probably do what they want - so he lost a free salesman and I became a detractor. I know what you mean regarding difficult to deal with as I have had issues in the past with him. It's been mentioned about the cost of the upgrades between versions personally I don't find it an issue as it does take time to develop the program. But that said as opposed to a few years ago there are now a few of these programmes about, I can't speak about the comparison between them. But for me it's what I'm used to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolongtoremember Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 I was going to go with Train Controller until I saw this, went for iTrain instead. Can't be dealing with people like that. I've always found Mr Feiwald difficult to deal with. Our old layout - Widnes - was signalled from the outside, so the signalman could sit and chat to the public. As part of this I used to expound the virtues of TC and I'm sure several people went away and bought it because of this. I mentioned it to Mr F once and he became very aggressive and told me I needed a special license, obviously at huge cost, to demo the software, and my (our - the clubs) licenses would be revoked etc. etc. It was eventually resolved without cost but his attitude was very unpleasant - from then on I told people we use it because we have investment in it (time, effort and some licenses) but there are other products available which are a lot cheaper and will probably do what they want - so he lost a free salesman and I became a detractor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 I've always found Mr Feiwald difficult to deal with. Our old layout - Widnes - was signalled from the outside, so the signalman could sit and chat to the public. As part of this I used to expound the virtues of TC and I'm sure several people went away and bought it because of this. I mentioned it to Mr F once and he became very aggressive and told me I needed a special license, obviously at huge cost, to demo the software, and my (our - the clubs) licenses would be revoked etc. etc. It was eventually resolved without cost but his attitude was very unpleasant - from then on I told people we use it because we have investment in it (time, effort and some licenses) but there are other products available which are a lot cheaper and will probably do what they want - so he lost a free salesman and I became a detractor. He got most angry at me when I asked on the forums for a copy of 5.0C5, which is the last version I have a licence for. Since I hadn't downloaded it and saved it, I needed a copy to go with my licence. He was most insistant that I should upgrade (?) to 7 (I think it was) at that point, rather than continue using what I am using... Suffice to say, with a customer service attitude like that, JMRI looks attractive... if it wasn't for the licence and experience, I'd have done the same thing. (he can fornicate with his hat, I have a legal version of 5.0C5, if anyone needs a copy of the software without the licence code, I'll be happy to supply...). For $500 worth of software licence, I would have expected to receive more positive support than what I did... 5.0 works just fine for what I am using it as...I've played with 7.0, and some of the features would be nice, as I am sure that 10 or whatever we are at would have some more easier ways to do some of what I am doing- however, I would have managed in any language I'm fairly sure... James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 24, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 24, 2018 (edited) He got most angry at me when I asked on the forums for a copy of 5.0C5, which is the last version I have a licence for. Since I hadn't downloaded it and saved it, I needed a copy to go with my licence. He was most insistant that I should upgrade (?) to 7 (I think it was) at that point, rather than continue using what I am using... Suffice to say, with a customer service attitude like that, JMRI looks attractive... if it wasn't for the licence and experience, I'd have done the same thing. (he can fornicate with his hat, I have a legal version of 5.0C5, if anyone needs a copy of the software without the licence code, I'll be happy to supply...). For $500 worth of software licence, I would have expected to receive more positive support than what I did... 5.0 works just fine for what I am using it as...I've played with 7.0, and some of the features would be nice, as I am sure that 10 or whatever we are at would have some more easier ways to do some of what I am doing- however, I would have managed in any language I'm fairly sure... James I believe you have a licence for version 5, in which case you should be able to upgrade to the latest version of that which is 5.8F1 and which can still be downloaded from here - http://www.freiwald.com/pages/download58.htm Edited December 24, 2018 by RFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 It looks like the price increase took place before the date that was stated, draw your own conclusions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted January 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2019 Why do you say that? Do you have something against Mr Freiwald? Given you started another identical thread to this one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2019 It looks like the price increase took place before the date that was stated, draw your own conclusions. Yes I read this post too (http://www.freiwald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32554), and thought that the user here was being extremely silly. It's all to do with our exit from the EU, and other non-EU countries have similar arrangements. The UK has been put on exactly the same footing as Switzerland and the price of the Gold version (€574) is the same for both countries. US users are charged $709 which converts to €620 at today's prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 Yes I read this post too (http://www.freiwald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32554), and thought that the user here was being extremely silly. It's all to do with our exit from the EU, and other non-EU countries have similar arrangements. The UK has been put on exactly the same footing as Switzerland and the price of the Gold version (€574) is the same for both countries. US users are charged $709 which converts to €620 at today's prices. Yes your correct in that brexit has caused this, what I thought it is rather odd that the company went against there own FAQ and the timescale given when I read the post. I believe this is what the poster was trying to point out. In the posts I noticed the agents name is given but I can't find any Information on them so does cause me a concern who you are dealing with. A point I like to make is the pricing is biased for German users €499 just compare if you live in holland €509 is not all pricing across the EU be the same. I can't reply to the other post as this has been closed by the moderator, as I thought the topic was different. but I was trying to see if I-Train would be a more attractive proposition now for new users looking for automation/control software Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) Yes your correct in that brexit has caused this, what I thought it is rather odd that the company went against there own FAQ and the timescale given when I read the post. I believe this is what the poster was trying to point out. In the posts I noticed the agents name is given but I can't find any Information on them so does cause me a concern who you are dealing with. A point I like to make is the pricing is biased for German users €499 just compare if you live in holland €509 is not all pricing across the EU be the same. I can't reply to the other post as this has been closed by the moderator, as I thought the topic was different. but I was trying to see if I-Train would be a more attractive proposition now for new users looking for automation/control software Previously Freiwald had to charge VAT at the German rate regardless of which EU country the buyer was from. But then there was an EU directive that meant he was required to charge VAT at the rate of the buyer's country, and with 27 other EU members that caused an admin overhead - hence the slightly extra cost for non-German EU buyers. There's already an active Traincontroller or Itrain thread here - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140425-traincontroller-good-or-not-so-good/ Edited January 1, 2019 by RFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 Previously Freiwald had to charge VAT at the German rate regardless of which EU country the buyer was from. But then there was an EU directive that meant he was required to charge VAT at the rate of the buyer's country, and with 27 other EU members that caused an admin overhead - hence the slightly extra cost for non-German EU buyers. There's already an active Traincontroller or Itrain thread here - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140425-traincontroller-good-or-not-so-good/ Thanks for the link I was unaware of this thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 . A point I like to make is the pricing is biased for German users €499 just compare if you live in holland €509 is not all pricing across the EU be the same. Fairly simple. €10 = 2% difference. Standard VAT rate in Germany is 19% Standard VAT rate in Holland is 21% No conspiracy, no fraud....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolongtoremember Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 What is to stop people buying the software and selecting Ireland as their location? still 509 euro in Ireland. P.s. I live in Ireland, but many British have a second home here also... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 What is to stop people buying the software and selecting Ireland as their location? still 509 euro in Ireland. P.s. I live in Ireland, but many British have a second home here also... Can be equally applied to any EU country lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Jonboy Posted January 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2019 What is to stop people buying the software and selecting Ireland as their location? still 509 euro in Ireland. P.s. I live in Ireland, but many British have a second home here also... I believe the seller has to use more than one piece of data to identify customers home country, some you may give them such as address, others may be related to computer IP address or issuing bank of payment card... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) I believe the seller has to use more than one piece of data to identify customers home country, some you may give them such as address, others may be related to computer IP address or issuing bank of payment card... My lips are sealed Edited January 5, 2019 by Andymsa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 6, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2019 When I see words like "probably" used in the FAQ it indicates that this guy is either making it up as he goes along or doesn't know what he is doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 6, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2019 I believe the seller has to use more than one piece of data to identify customers home country, some you may give them such as address, others may be related to computer IP address or issuing bank of payment card... TC software is licensed using a USB stick, so when you purchase for the first time you have to supply a delivery address which will define to which country the "goods" are to be shipped and hence the price/VAT to be paid. This is no different from buying any goods from abroad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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