TrainController good or not so good

[model-trains]

Hi Guys

 

I am about to start my third layout after the new year, moved home and have a bit more space. In the past I have used Hornby Elink amd RailMaster, although I now have the Hornby Elite.

 

I welcome comments about TrainController from you guys, good or not so good. Except for the price, I am aware of the current price and the 15% increase that is being added from 1 January for an agent to carry out all transactions from the UK. In fact I think although they say from the 1 Janauary I think I read it is from this month.

 

Putting the price to one side, I am interested in comments from current users of the software. I have the 30 day trial, I am 8 days into the trial and have been quite impressed. My proposed new layout was created in no time at all, the draw tool incredibly fast, all blocks and turn outs are set and given addresses and I have had a couple of locos running round merrily on the layout plan. I appreciate I am just scratching the surface but do like the (Windows style) look and feel of what I have seen so far. Except maybe, the signals on the end of blocks only showing one aspect, not 2, 3 or 4 and I have not seen any feather indicators.

 

Another thought I have before I decide is, what sensor system and control do you find best and most affordable with TrainController.

 

I would be looking at the Gold package, pricey without the 15% additional change but is it as good as it first seems, will I come across frustating issues as I learn more?

 

All comments welcome

 

Thank you 

Edited December 16, 2018 by model-trains

[ianmacc]

Wrong category?

[model-trains]

Wrong category?

 

Which category please?

 

Can it be moved?

 

Thanks I have been notified it has been moved 

Edited December 16, 2018 by model-trains

[ianmacc]

Made the same mistake recently it’s easily done.

[Suzie]

You are going to have to do a lot of work in Traincontroller to implement UK signals, and this does require the gold version too.

 

If what you want is to have the trains running under automatic control, then you have probably done best by buying Traincontroller and the effort of creating the signalling might be worthwhile, but if you want to do signalling easily you will be better off using JMRI, and then putting the work in to get the automatic train running.

 

As a compromise it might be worth looking at Rocrail which does both reasonably well once you get the hang of it.

 

When using this type of Software there is little restriction as to which feedback sensors you use - just decide on a feedback bus, get an interface for it, and buy the sensors that work with that bus. Hornby do not have their own feedback bus.

[model-trains]

You are going to have to do a lot of work in Traincontroller to implement UK signals, and this does require the gold version too.

 

If what you want is to have the trains running under automatic control, then you have probably done best by buying Traincontroller and the effort of creating the signalling might be worthwhile, but if you want to do signalling easily you will be better off using JMRI, and then putting the work in to get the automatic train running.

 

As a compromise it might be worth looking at Rocrail which does both reasonably well once you get the hang of it.

 

When using this type of Software there is little restriction as to which feedback sensors you use - just decide on a feedback bus, get an interface for it, and buy the sensors that work with that bus. Hornby do not have their own feedback bus.

 

Hi Suzie

 

Many thanks for taking time to add a reply to my question.

 

TrainController, I like the look and feel of the software, signalling in the software, made me wonder a little as I only saw one aspect, so with 4 aspect signals you wouldn't now which was Y or YY unless you watched that signal closely. I have not got deeply into signalling, my time so far has been setting up every block and turnout to allow trains to run spontaneously, I appreciate I am only scratching the surface at day 8 of use, but 30 days can go so quickly. Gold package would be what I am looking at but it has an hefty price tag so I need to know of the disadvantages with the software, that have to be some. So far the only things that concern me regarding TrainController is i) it is German, ii)  it is pricey, iii) signalling, iv) the way EU has responded and the way our government is handling Brexit. 

 

The software is good at showing the automation possible on screen, but I feel this may not be the case on the layout, without sensor control. In particular I noticed when having two engines on one track, and speeding up the back one to catch up to the first one, it did protect the block of the first one, but the speed dial of the second one remained on maximum even when the speed was lowered to stop the engine entering the block in front. This may be because I was using software only and didn't have the Hornby Elite connected, I do not know at this stage, the new layout will not start until early next year.

 

RocRail, a good reply I think 'works reasonably when you get the hang of it'. I did look at this before TrainController, but didn't spend long enough with it, may be I should have another look .

 

Hornby, what can I say, their loco detection was announced six years ago as coming, then a few years later after generating interest as coming soon, then all went quiet. I understand they are to make an announcement around 7 January, with an update coming for RailMaster, not just bug fixes, and also about LD so it will be interesting to see what they say, when it is coming, have they changed their initial method of detection and of course what price will it be.

 

I do want train automation, I do want a sensor system as I feel it is the only way to achieve accurate stopping of locos. My issue at present is knowing the advantages and disadvantages of each to get the best, most affordable system for each.

 

Thanks again for taking time to reply.

[ColinK]

One of my friends uses Traincontroller. i don’t know much about it, but he has it working and is very impressive, especially when trains are running automatically and he lets me drive one manually at the same time; you have to obey the signals.

[njee20]

I think it was Beast66606 of this parish who mentioned that they used TC and were big promoters of it, demoing at shows etc. When Mr TrainController got wind of this, rather than being pleased, he castigated them for not having a demo licence. For me I don't want to support a company who are that greedy - the pre-emptive price rise is grossly unnecessary too, and IMO their upgrade fees for new versions are disproportionate. 

I looked at it, but decided I really wanted signal automation for which JMRI was more suited, finding out how they operate has reinforced that for me. YMMV.

 

I-train is another option to look at.

Edited December 17, 2018 by njee20

[model-trains]

One of my friends uses Traincontroller. i don’t know much about it, but he has it working and is very impressive, especially when trains are running automatically and he lets me drive one manually at the same time; you have to obey the signals.

 

 

Hi ColinK

 

The signals in the software are attached to the end of the blocks so this would make sense, from what I have seen so far it only shows one aspect, the actual aspect on at the time, for 2 and 3 aspect signals R,Y or G but for 4 aspect the Y and YY were only showing Y so you would know which Y stage it was showing. I am at early stage of trial version so am not aware yet of what can be done more than this and have not looked at programming signals back down the line.

 

The software, so far, is impressive, but as I cannot start my new layout until the new year I have no way of testing on track, not yet anyway. That said I don't want to pay the high price for this software unless it will do what I want, so the 30 trial will run out before my layout starts. That is why I started this thread to get some feedback, good and bad, hopefully it could help others also.

 

Thanks for your message ColinK

[model-trains]

I think it was Beast66606 of this parish who mentioned that they used TC and were big promoters of it, demoing at shows etc. When Mr TrainController got wind of this, rather than being pleased, he castigated them for not having a demo licence. For me I don't want to support a company who are that greedy - the pre-emptive price rise is grossly unnecessary too, and IMO their upgrade fees for new versions are disproportionate. 

I looked at it, but decided I really wanted signal automation for which JMRI was more suited, finding out how they operate has reinforced that for me. YMMV.

 

I-train is another option to look at.

 

 

Hi njee20

 

For them to be big promoters of the software they must be pleased with it.

 

I do agree with the point you state regarding needing a demo licence, it does not make financial marketing sense, blind greed I think. 

 

The price is expensive, hence the reason I would love to hear peoples thoughts and findings, good and bad, there is also a 15% rise for the UK customers due to Brexit and handing over sales to an agent for one year, I notice the upgrade price was around 100 Euro's but just starting to look and try the software I do not know how many additions there are in the upgrade to know if the price is justified, some may say it is, some may not. Germany has more to lose than most with Brexit, France is second I feel, but through out the negotiations the EU have made the UK and the media think we have more to lose, again opinion with vary on this, and this is not what the thread is about.

 

I feel although the software looks good on the computer screen, is it as good on the layout? What issues have members found with the software and accessories to work with it, for turn outs, signals, for sensor system as well as the software itself. 

 

Thank you for taking time to add your comments njee20, all comments are appreciated.

Edited December 17, 2018 by model-trains

[njee20]

Obviously it's relative, for me I have to consider if I'd want to spend that much on something if the sales support is that poor, even if the product in it's purchased guise is good. This was Beast's post, save my misquoting him!

[model-trains]

Obviously it's relative, for me I have to consider if I'd want to spend that much on something if the sales support is that poor, even if the product in it's purchased guise is good. This was Beast's post, save my misquoting him!

 

 

Interesting read, I am sure all Germans are not ignorant, but those I have come across over the years have been. 

 

Not a good business attitude, seems like the software is really good, but it has gone to his head.

 

But I still need to consider the problems, there have to be some I am sure.

 

Thanks njee20

[model-trains]

I think it was Beast66606 of this parish who mentioned that they used TC and were big promoters of it, demoing at shows etc. When Mr TrainController got wind of this, rather than being pleased, he castigated them for not having a demo licence. For me I don't want to support a company who are that greedy - the pre-emptive price rise is grossly unnecessary too, and IMO their upgrade fees for new versions are disproportionate. 

I looked at it, but decided I really wanted signal automation for which JMRI was more suited, finding out how they operate has reinforced that for me. YMMV.

 

I-train is another option to look at.

 

Hi njee20

 

I have downloaded iTrain4Plus and started the trial period to suss it out a bit more but...

 

Looking to set it up I opened the Interface list, I do not see any Hornby Controllers in the list.

 

Do you, or anyone on the forum, know if Hornby Controllers will work with this software?

[Suzie]

It is worth trying any ExpressNet or Xbus options such as Lenz as they will possibly work with the Hornby systems

[john dew]

Hi

 

I am a Train Controller enthusiast. I have used it for 10 years to control my Granby Layout. It added a new dimension to my modelling and has been one of the best modelling investments I have made.(usual disclaimer)

 

I dont use it to operate signals on the layout but I know many people do, its  a very versatile piece of software and there is invariably more than one way of solving a problem.

 

Funnily enough I first learned about TC through a tutorial that Beast6606 ran on signalling back in 2006. I dont know the background to his disagreement with Herr Freiwald but from my experience Juergen seems a rather inflexible character.......its his way or the high road. On the other hand, speaking for myself, I have found his customer service excellent.

 

From time to time I have made some rather amateurish videos in an attempt to convince my luddite friends of the benefits of computor control. Here is my most recent one which may give you an some idea of the scope of TC

 

 

​https://youtube.com/watch?v=UPLVZqrTGm8

 

 

For track detection I use Lenz LB101s occupancy detectors connected to Lenz LR101 decoders which connect through the Xpressnet to the Lenz Command Centre and thence the TC system on the computor. Its a very reliable and robust detection system.....no failures during 10 years operation .....the occasional fault has veen of my own making

 

 

Hope this helps......happy to answer any follow up questions

 

Regards from Vancouver

 

John

[model-trains]

It is worth trying any ExpressNet or Xbus options such as Lenz as they will possibly work with the Hornby systems

 

Thanks Suzie I will check these also. 

[model-trains]

Hi

 

I am a Train Controller enthusiast. I have used it for 10 years to control my Granby Layout. It added a new dimension to my modelling and has been one of the best modelling investments I have made.(usual disclaimer)

 

I dont use it to operate signals on the layout but I know many people do, its  a very versatile piece of software and there is invariably more than one way of solving a problem.

 

Funnily enough I first learned about TC through a tutorial that Beast6606 ran on signalling back in 2006. I dont know the background to his disagreement with Herr Freiwald but from my experience Juergen seems a rather inflexible character.......its his way or the high road. On the other hand, speaking for myself, I have found his customer service excellent.

 

From time to time I have made some rather amateurish videos in an attempt to convince my luddite friends of the benefits of computor control. Here is my most recent one which may give you an some idea of the scope of TC

 

 

​https://youtube.com/watch?v=UPLVZqrTGm8

 

 

For track detection I use Lenz LB101s occupancy detectors connected to Lenz LR101 decoders which connect through the Xpressnet to the Lenz Command Centre and thence the TC system on the computor. Its a very reliable and robust detection system.....no failures during 10 years operation .....the occasional fault has veen of my own making

 

 

Hope this helps......happy to answer any follow up questions

 

Regards from Vancouver

 

John

 

 

Thanks for your comments and the video John, nice layout, well established I can see, good modelling and backdrops.

 

As I watched the video, which was great, then started to think I would like to have seen the TC layout also, then up it popped,

 

I must admit I like TrainController, expensive but very good from what I have seen so far. I am only on day 10 of the trial period.

 

What I don't like are the signal aspects on the block ends, they only show one aspect, not good with a YY with a 4 aspect signal.

 

I have read adding UK signals is not straight forward, I would need to find out more about this as signals are an important part for my layout.

 

Thanks again for your comments and video. I will have to try remember how to add images on here, I have prepared my proposed layout in TC9 Gold.

[john dew]

I just grabbed the video off the shelf so to speak in the hope that it would give you an idea of the scope of TC......glad it was of some help.

 

The single aspect signals within the block ends are part of TCs internal control system. The properties of each block can be amended so they are not visible .........in fact I think some were on the video......but you cant stop them working.

 

You can add 4 aspect signals , and even more complex images, to the switchboard and then link them to physical signals on the layout which will control train movement

 

The available signals ( as opposed to bespoke designed) can be found in the accessories tab.

 

If you havent already done so you should download the manual.....its free

 

Cheers

 

John.

[beast66606]

For them to be big promoters of the software they must be pleased with it once

 

 

I've added a bit - I'm the beast66606 in question.

 

We used (I'm no longer a member of WFRM so can't comment on current practice) RR&Co to create signalling control panels which mimicked a prototype NX panel, it did this very well, so well that several PSB managers commented how realistic it was (within the bounds of what could be done) - there was a WR guy who found a fault, I corrected the issue within a few minutes... such is the power of RR and the ease (for me anyway) of doing things. We didn't use RR blocks, we had the equivalent of prototype track circuits and these replaced signals, locked routes, controlled subsidiary moves etc - but this was all done by me programming it, not RR&Co.

 

We did try automation, getting a pacer to run from the fiddle yard and onto the front, stop at the station and then continue to the fiddle yard again - very succesful but not for us with an exhibtion layout.

 

It's good product but the pricing is ridiculous and Mr Friewald appeared (going back a few years now)  to go out of his way to annoy people - his current wheeze of putting the prices up long before anything has actually happened being a typical example. He's accused me of all sorts and we stopped upgrading several versions back due to his attitude, and then started to tell people to look at alternatives.

 

If I was starting again today I'd go down the route suggested by Suzie, when I (I was the programmer for the panels on Charlotte Road and Widnes) wrote the first panel, the alternatives were crap not very good, they've all upped their game since and are well worth evaluating.

[john dew]

Somewhat off topic......good to hear from you Beast .....gives me an opportunity to thank you for starting me off with RR&Co.....without your tutorial I doubt if it would have happened......It was version 5 in 2006 and now I am on V9... how time flies

 

Have a great Christmas

 

John

[beast66606]

Somewhat off topic......good to hear from you Beast .....gives me an opportunity to thank you for starting me off with RR&Co.....without your tutorial I doubt if it would have happened......It was version 5 in 2006 and now I am on V9... how time flies

 

Have a great Christmas

 

John

 

Hi John,

 

Glad you're still enjoying it !

 

Have a Great Christmas too !

 

cheers,

[Edwin_m]

I used TrainController Gold to produce a reasonable simulation of an IECC panel with display of actual aspects including double yellow.  However I suspect I was not using it in the manner intended and there are several ways it makes prototypical operation more difficult (notably the way it tracks trains around the layout if Railcom is not fitted).  I've never really got into automation though it's on the (very long) list. 

[model-trains]

Does anyone know if Train-Tech signals work with TrainController? 

 

I think they will work with iTrain.

 

At present TC seems to offer more, I like the image of the engine in the blocks, easy to know where everything is. As for TC signal in the end of the block as one aspect, it is probably not an issue other than for 4 aspect signals. So TC seems at this stage to have a lot going for it, except customer service although there is a forum, not sure how good that is, and then there are great guys on forums, like this one, who are very knowledgeable. That just leaves the price and the 15% hike they have/are adding for the next twelve months due to Brexit. 

 

iTrain I need to look into more, I have only just downloaded the trial version and yesterday added the layout (nothing more yet) so I need to look into this more. I also need to consider Suzie's kind suggestions. Thank you all for your comments, please feel free to continue, it is becoming an interesting thread, and may help others in the future. I will try remember how to add images of my proposed layout shortly.

 

Thanks again to all who have replied so far, and all future messages 

Edited December 19, 2018 by model-trains

[model-trains]

The first image shows my proposed new layout, the up-lines and the down-lines, and in pink the bi-directional lines used at cross overs, station and sidings entries and exits, ignore the sensor positions.

 

 

The second image is after 10 days of TrainController, trial edition, Gold. 

 

 

This last image is after 1 day with iTrain, trial edition, proposed layout only, today I will start to look at turn-outs etc, to get a better feel for the software.

 

 

Comments always welcome, good and bad.

 

 

[tophski]

I have used both iTrain and Traincontroller, although not used traincontroler within the last 3 years. I found both work differently, but iTrain (once you figure out the order in which to do things) has worked really well for me. Route setting on Traincontroller was nicer, with the ability to change it to different colours, and the keyboard shortcuts being more obvious, but once I found my way around iTrain and settled for the gold track routes I was ok. I use this at a model railway club, with a keyboard to set routes. I am in no way an expert at it, but the forum was super helpful. 

I plan on moving to the new digikeijs controller  at the club soon so will see what happens then!