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Hi all,hope someone can help, really just want a quick answer.

Will acrylic varnish , humbrol Matt,satin or gloss or Vallejo Matt be ok to airbrush over enamel. Weathered several locos with my airbrush using enamels,they have been sat for 5 days now so are definitely dry. Today I tried airbrushing some humbrol Matt enamel varnish on one of them and it all turned white so would really prefer to use acrylics if poss.

Any help greatly appreciated.

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Sounds like the thinners and the varnish have reacted. I’ve had this when washing enamels thinned with white spirits over an enamel finish. I think the white is the matting agent in the varnish.

bob

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Guest

I used humbrol enamel thinners.

I'm giving up with enamels I think as far as airbrushing goes anyway. To much hassle when it comes to the varnish. I have used acrylics on all my rolling stock with no problems as such but thought I'd do the locos in enamels. Mistake.

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Posted (edited)

The problem is using humbrol varnish , it's pretty useless , use something like railmatch or prescion varnish , never had any problems only with humbrol , best consigned  to the bin 

Ps Vallejo should be fine 

Edited by bazjones1711
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Guest

Yes been searching on the net about the subject and it seems that humbrol ain't what they used to be,but I have had no issues with there paint to be fair. So will it be ok to put Vallejo varnish over enamels that have well and truly dried?

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I would say yes , I've used Vallejo Matt varnish over enamel  With no problems , I always lightly mist the varnish on ,, if I doubt test out on some scrap plasticard first rather than trying on a loco , there was a similar post on facebook  about using humbrol varnish turning white !

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Guest

Thanks for replys.

I have 40 plus locos, fortunately I have only weathered 7 so far,all awaiting varnish,will try the Vallejo Matt varnish on the underframes, bogie's first and see what happens before I turn the airbrush on the entire body's, should keep me busy over the Easter break.

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The problem with most Matt varnishes is whats used as the matting medium, they use pumice and if they use too much the result is an all over milky appearance.

 

One of the best Matt varnishes is the one sold under the Xtracolor brand, with Testors Dull coat also vetting a worthy mention.

 

I have been using the Xtracolor Enamel version for years and never had any issues, they also do an Acrylic version But I have never used that.

 

Paul

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Guest

I have airbrushed 2 locos today with Vallejo Matt varnish, ok so far. I just wasn't sure whether acrylic varnish would work over enamels. I will look up some xtracolour varnish and give that a try then,but I think all future loco weathering will be done in acrylics not enamels. That humbrol stuff is total crap,won't be using that again. Yet the videos on it on YouTube make it look like the perfect stuff.liars.

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I solely use enamels for painting  have NEVER had issues like frosting.  

I use Tamiya, Testors, and Rustoleum (IIRC) brand matt and gloss aerosols to great results.  

Definitely do light coats though.  I once laid a very heavy coat of matt onto some coupling rods and had to repaint them due to a light frosting.  

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As others have said, avoid humbrol enamel varnish!. humbrol enamel paints are pretty good but every time I have tried to use their Matt varnish it has dried with a white bloom, the rattle cans also suffer from yellowing see the photo below of 2 resprayed 47s where the varnish has  yellowed turning the rail grey to rail beige!:

 

03134DFF-DB5E-4933-B9C9-1104EFF03353.jpeg.7337282e7a051411ae939467d6a60623.jpeg

 

If if you still have your model and haven’t stripped it yet try applying a coat of enamel gloss varnish over the Matt, this should remove the white bloom - I have saved a number of models over the years using this method.

 

For varnishing I only use ready thinned phoenix enamel Matt varnish now - haven’t had any problems so far.

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On 17/04/2019 at 18:21, matto3868 said:

I used humbrol enamel thinners.

I'm giving up with enamels I think as far as airbrushing goes anyway. To much hassle when it comes to the varnish. I have used acrylics on all my rolling stock with no problems as such but thought I'd do the locos in enamels. Mistake.

I always use white spirit when spraying enamels and for varnish i use the spirit based Ronseal  clear varnish which comes in matt, satin and gloss.

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Posted (edited)

Avoid Humbrol varnishes Matt,Satin and gloss, like the plague. They should carry a health warning like "these varnishes may ruin your precious model". Terrible product and their paints are no better - now.

Edited by Roger Sunderland

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I always use Revell enamel for general colours and either Railmatch or Precision for railway colours and yes Humbrol are terrible.

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Guest

I dont have a problem with the humbrol paints,acrylics or enamels.

I have varnished the locos thats were weathered in enamels and left to dry for 4 days or so with vallejo matt and satin varnishes, turned out a treat,airbrused on lovely.

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33 minutes ago, matto3868 said:

I dont have a problem with the humbrol paints,acrylics or enamels.

I have varnished the locos thats were weathered in enamels and left to dry for 4 days or so with vallejo matt and satin varnishes, turned out a treat,airbrused on lovely.

 

I've used Humbrol Enamel Varnishes and colours for years, very seldom had any issues.  Their Matt Varnish needs to be well mixed, preferably with a battery powered mixer, and then preferably thinned with quality White spirits, not thinners.

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On 17/04/2019 at 17:20, matto3868 said:

Today I tried airbrushing some humbrol Matt enamel varnish on one of them and it all turned white so would really prefer to use acrylics if poss

 

It's not an enamel vs acrylic thing, as others have said, it's probably just the Humbrol varnish. A friend had the same bloom issue with it on a recent kit he built, one side sprayed fine, the other came up a blotchy white mess.

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Despite my comments above 're Humbrol enamel varnish - opened a tin of Satin varnish that was purchased recently, after mixing it with a  paint mixer it was nothing like the older tin, it looked more like gooey light Grey paint....so returned it for a refund along with the other tin.

The original tin was branded Humbrol Super Enamel, and looked

 like varnish and worked well unlike the presently available version .......

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I've used Humrol SatinCote varnish successfully on a number of projects, all of which have been painted with enamels.  To say that all Humbrol varnishes are rubbish is incorrect.

 

DT

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I use Humbrol aerosol acrylic Matt varnish extensively. However it is always best to test on an area that doesn't matter. And it is essential to ensure that any paint, especially enamel, is thoroughly dry - they used to recommend at least a week and preferably to use enamel varnish on enamel paint. Also shake the can for ages to make sure it is properly mixed.

 

I've read that the white blushing effect is often caused by spaying on a humid/damp day where airborne water particles get caught in the spray and end up in the varnish on the model.

 

G

 

 

 

 

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Hi All.

 

This is regular problem with Humbrol paints.

 

I did a test a few years ago for matt varnishes trying enamel, acrylic and some artists types and found that the Humbrol enamel was the best for drying to a dead matt finish if you got a good tin.

 

Now the problem is that the production appears to be inconsistent and sometimes it does not dry fully matt or it has creamy steaks in it. I have therefore produced some test cards with patches of dark coloured matt paints on, dark brown or matt black are best and I always mix and test the varnish on them before risking it on a model. This way you should be able to determine if there is going to be a problem. You must mix the varnish thoroughly and if it consistently fails to dry properly I take it back to the retailer and ask them exchange it for another tin from a different batch. Note that all Humbrol tins now have a label on the bottom which shows a batch number, so make a note of any dodgy paints and avoid buying any from the same batch.

N.B. I did also complain to Hornby about one tin and they told me to send it back to them with a description of what was wrong with it. They sent a replacement through the post, which I did not think that they were allowed to do, but did not comment on the problem.

 

I have not tried airbrushing varnish, but do not think that there should be any problems once the base colour is fully dried whether it is enamel or acrylic.

 

Here is an example of what can go wrong if you do not test the varnish properly before applying to a model.

These are two Bachmann models that I weathered. The one on the right was done with untested vanish and got a patchy bloom on it. Fortunately, I was able to touch it up and make it look like a well weathered wagon, but it could have been much worse especially on a prized locomotive or similar.

 

I hope that this helps.

 

RB

273245534_BachmannSECRWagons.JPG.a7bf547e61650df10f0e857f908581bd.JPG

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1 hour ago, grahame said:

I've read that the white blushing effect is often caused by spaying on a humid/damp day where airborne water particles get caught in the spray and end up in the varnish on the model.

 

That has been my experience also. I save my varnishing for warm, dry days where possible (which means about 3 days a year in this country :jester: ).

 

Having said that, some varnishes seem more prone to it than others and I have definitely heard grumbles about Humbrol before. Testors Dullcote always gives me a perfect flat finish so is my finish of choice.

 

For things that need to withstand lots of handling, Halfords car lacquer has also been pretty reliable for me and comes in both satin and matt finishes.

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I'd be wary of any spirit or lacquer based varnishes – they can yellow. Acrylic based varnishes are generally non-yellowing due to the resins they are based on. When painting figures I found that brush painting Vallejo (VJ) Matt varnish straight onto a painted model darkened the colours and the finish didn't dry dead matt. However, using VJ gloss varnish sealed and preserved the colour. I have heard that airbrushing VJ matt varnish gives a very good result but I've yet to try it myself.

 

For figures I've been using doctored Daler Rowney soluble matt acrylic varnish. I remove some of the clear liquid and test the bottle adding it back in slowly. You have to get it so it dries dead matt without leaving white streaks, which is a fine balancing act. Generally I suspect I remove about 1/3 of the clear carrier liquid but you have to wait for the bottle to settle out before you can pour off the clear.

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