Repairs to Hornby Bulleid Pacific; wheels not rotating more than half turn.

[Legend]

For a long time, about three years ago it was just impossible to get MN spares . It may have improved since

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 24/06/2019 at 20:58, TheSignalEngineer said:

My failed T9 is at Hornby and is waiting for them to find a part. I only sent it to them because they offered to do it FOC as a known mazak victim. Usually I source bits and do it myself. 

T9 arrived back this morning after Mazak rot repairs. The motor housing and retaining plate which had both shattered have been replaced. Runs better than it has ever done, even across the connections where it was prone to derail. 

I was going to change this bit of the layout but probably best to leave as it was the place where the warped 9F used to derail and it seems to find out any nasties in things I am building. 

[RedgateModels]

On 25/06/2019 at 08:55, RedgateModels said:

 

That will be determined when I get the loco and the spares that come with it. Parts are available should they be needed 🙂

 

Loco is fixed and the return crank is at the right rearward lean for this loco too 🙂

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by RedgateModels

[Fireline]

On 26/07/2019 at 16:28, RedgateModels said:

 

Loco is fixed and the return crank is at the right rearward lean for this loco too

 

 

Was it the gear on the axle?

[RedgateModels]

57 minutes ago, Fireline said:

 

Was it the gear on the axle?

 

Yes, small split in the gear so it was free to move on the splines and go out of line with the middle gears. Fitted a complete new wheelset, which was good as the screw holding the speedo drive on sheared when I tried to tighten it. Struggled to find a spare screw though, had to rob one from a 9F rod set......

[RedgateModels]

Bit off topic, but here's a Bachmann Lord Nelson split chassis fitted with a Zimo MX600 that I've done for his Duckship. 

 

 

I like a tidy job, runs well after a good running in on the rollers. 

Edited July 29, 2022 by RedgateModels

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, RedgateModels said:

Bit off topic, but here's a Bachmann Lord Nelson split chassis fitted with a Zimo MX600 that I've done for his Duckship. 

 

 

I like a tidy job, runs well after a good running in on the rollers. 

My beak is smiling cheerfully...………………..can't wait to stick that up The Junction.

P

[Mallard60022]

On 30/07/2019 at 12:45, RedgateModels said:

Bit off topic, but here's a Bachmann Lord Nelson split chassis fitted with a Zimo MX600 that I've done for his Duckship. 

 

 

I like a tidy job, runs well after a good running in on the rollers. 

This and the naughty Pacific were both super jobs done by Ian. The Nelson is a very old Baccy version, but runs a treat.

So, another faff and a bit of a warning. 'Won' a MN and an Arthur from Vectis Auctions and they are both, seemingly, unrun(?) MOB items. Well I am guilty of being a dick and going for these as they ended up, after commission and postage at £100 each!  

As I have revived after yet another period of being 'unwell' and knackered, I decided to look at them and run them in. Long story short, the MN 35011 has a problem; not split gear but the wheels will only rotate half a turn and will nit loosen up. This time I have dismantled it and had the motor out and the grease is not solid. The valve gear appears fine and undamaged/bent/ broken. However, it really seems like a gear problem. Am I pi##ed off? Just a bit.

Arthur….runs as smooth as an Excalibur out of the hilt. Lovely engine; Sir Kay, late emblem and DCC ready.

I suspect Ian will be asked if he wants to have another ####### Bulleid Pacific on his work-bench, however before I ask him, has anyone had the same problem; not split gears as far as I can see without removing the wheel set, just something 'jamming'.

The 'warning' is of course buyer beware,  However Vectis seem not to test their locomotives (I can understand that I suppose?) and that is a shame as they often have some very good examples, but this is the second one now I have had that does not run out of the box. It would appear dealers are also their main customers for RTR stuff and so the items may well just go on to be sold elsewhere and possibly remain untested. 

Thanks.

Phil

[RedgateModels]

Something to check first, both West Countrys from Al had locked up bearings on one or all axles. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by RedgateModels

[RedgateModels]

On 29/07/2019 at 11:29, RedgateModels said:

 

 which was good as the screw holding the speedo drive on sheared when I tried to tighten it. Struggled to find a spare screw though, had to rob one from a 9F rod set......

 

Update on this one - the only source apart from a 9F rod set is that the screw comes with a new speedo drive X9692, so lose that screw (or shear it off) and it will cost you a fiver .....

[RAF96]

Hornby does have a very capable repairs department but I suggest the problem of them rejecting any particular task is lack of spares. No point taking a job on if you can’t get the parts.

[atom3624]

Valvegear is difficult to locate.

I've seen spare chassis on Ebay.

Intermediate / drive gears are also more available than before.

 

With the motor removed, thus 'free running', do the wheels rotate fully?

 

Valvegear is quite sensitive and can bend if picked up incorrectly / clumsily - easily done by anyone.

Are you certain the valvegear isn't interfering during rotation?

 

Al.

[MikeParkin65]

Is the piston rod located properly in the slidebars and able to moved freely into the cylinder?

[Mallard60022]

16 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Is the piston rod located properly in the slidebars and able to moved freely into the cylinder?

Yup as far as I can see, but I'll double check thanks.

[Barry Ten]

On 03/02/2020 at 11:17, RAF96 said:

Hornby does have a very capable repairs department but I suggest the problem of them rejecting any particular task is lack of spares. No point taking a job on if you can’t get the parts.

 

I think they need to have a rethink about how they tackle repairs. Ian is very kindly looking at two of my WCs (see above - the ones with the locked bearings) but Hornby wouldn't take them in, saying they were older models. This is a load of cobblers though as even if my specific WCs are 10 years old, the model itself has been in the range very recently - indeed when I looked on Hornby's own website, a WC came up in their catalogue. I could understand if I asked them to repair a Lord Westwood or something from 1973, but not a relatively new, Chinese-era model.

[John Tomlinson]

Unhelpfully, Hornby do make small modifications to locos so that replacement parts may not fit. I had a case with a West Country some months ago, one from around 2005 I suspect. I ordered a new chassis baseplate - the plastic piece - and it didn't fit because of a mod. done to the cab end of the chassis.

 

It doesn't help either that the parts numbering is so chaotic, so some items clearly suit more than one loco, but you wouldn't know because the same thing has a different number. Too much to hope that they might do a revamp to have a logical system by loco type, with common parts carrying a similar or related number. We really need the equivalent of Edward Thompson's magnificent 1943 re-numbering scheme!

 

John.

[autocoach]

I wonder what it would take for someone to design/market a reliable replacement mechanism/chassis for the WC/BOB. There must be at least 100,000 models out there in various stages of disrepair (I own two at the moment.)  A few years back Brassmasters came to the rescue for those of us with the problematic Hornby GWR 2-8-2 tanks.  Perhaps a High Level effort.

 

I haven't checked diagrams but I assume the modern Air Smoothed Merchant Navy chassis would not be usable.  Hornby made significant improvements to the valve gear for these Bulleid precursors to the WC.   

[Barry Ten]

17 hours ago, autocoach said:

I wonder what it would take for someone to design/market a reliable replacement mechanism/chassis for the WC/BOB. There must be at least 100,000 models out there in various stages of disrepair (I own two at the moment.)  A few years back Brassmasters came to the rescue for those of us with the problematic Hornby GWR 2-8-2 tanks.  Perhaps a High Level effort.

 

I haven't checked diagrams but I assume the modern Air Smoothed Merchant Navy chassis would not be usable.  Hornby made significant improvements to the valve gear for these Bulleid precursors to the WC.   

 

If I'd only had one failure out of three I might have considered a Comet chassis replacement but the costs of such an approach, when one factors in wheels, motor and gearbox, would be pushing towards the cost of a new loco, never mind the two or three weeks it would typically take me to build a full chassis with outside valve gear. In this case, given that there are a cluster of failures around the WCs, I'd have thought the onus was on Hornby to provide either a repair option or a chassis exchange. I would have accepted paying for some part of either. They did replace the Class 31 chassis en masse  but seem much less willing to look at steam loco failures, such as the commonly reported fault with the T9s.

[GWR-fan]

If I have an issue with the Hornby spare parts it is that even though there is a commonality of parts used like motors and gears,  it seems that for every model released the commonly used parts are given a part number specific to that model.  Thus if one is looking for a particular gearset then searching that specific number may find the part unavailable and yet the part is available under a different part number.

 

One of my particular interests in the hobby is to buy non running models and hopefully breathe life back into them.  If possible I try to source a replacement motor in China as in many cases purchasing an original Hornby motor would double the price paid for a defective model making it uneconomic to repair.  Similarly, if the valve gear is broken then I usually avoid purchasing the loco as the cost of replacement valve gear makes the job uneconomic.

 

What I find odd is that spare parts for the Railroad range models are usually more expensive than similar premium range models.  As regards the issue with the wheels rotating a half turn and locking up then I wonder if,  as is quite common on Hornby models,  the small retaining screw for the driving wheel retaining the return crank to the wheel has loosened allowing the valve gear to be out of alignment.   Depending on the model the return crank is set either leading,  trailing or vertical with the mount screw at the six o'clock position.  If not accurately set then the wheels will lock up.

 

 

[Barry Ten]

Just a note to say that Ian (Redgate) has done a splendid job resurrecting my two duff WCs. They are now great runners again, with the added bonus of really impressive sound.

[RedgateModels]

Just now, Barry Ten said:

 with the added bonus of really impressive sound.

 

Which is more down to the efforts of @pauliebanger than myself

 

Glad to have got them working again.

[John Tomlinson]

Could you or Ian perhaps spill the beans on what was wrong and how it was fixed, please.

 

Many thanks,

 

John.

[Mallard60022]

I'm still working on another loco that I mentioned elsewhere Feb 1st post, (not the WC that Ian repaired beautifully). This time  I shall use the 'tips' above before almost certainly passing this thing (Packet) on to Ian. I have got another notorious one now 34053. Works but is not running smoothly as it should; was like it on receiving it a few years back. I reckon that is possibly a quartering problem but who knows. I tried re lubricating and running in the other day; waste of time sadly.

Tomorrow I may take a deep breath and try them both again. Sadly I have quite a large collection of Hornby SR Pacifics and every time I get one out of the store boxes to 'test' I have to do so with crossed fingers Why? Because most came from collections I bought from decent shops or was offered by someone moving on a deceased friend's item(s). Good prices but risky maybe?

P

Edited February 20, 2020 by Mallard60022

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎09‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 05:58, GWR-fan said:

If I have an issue with the Hornby spare parts it is that even though there is a commonality of parts used like motors and gears,  it seems that for every model released the commonly used parts are given a part number specific to that model.  Thus if one is looking for a particular gearset then searching that specific number may find the part unavailable and yet the part is available under a different part number...

Strange to relate, on the evidence I have seen, the terms Bachmann and Heljan might be substituted in the above statement. (Those are the only three RTR OO manufacturers from whom I have purchased sufficient product to make this observation, it may well have further applicability.)

 

It is only that small selection of spare parts made available retail. because they are specifically intended for customer fitting that share part numbers: such as rolling stock bogies, rolling stock wheels and couplers.

 

When a locomotive model is tooled, every part is assigned a unique number for that model build, and even though parts that are common - especially those in drive trains - are incorporated, with barely an exception (couplers) there's no systematic cross-reference.

 

Take your models apart in the fine old tradition, and you discover which motors, gears, wheelsets and other incidental bits and pieces might be interchanged across which groups of models; but it is very much down to the individual to determine 'what may be spared from what'.

 

Now it might be hoped that the internet and a forum such as this could simply facilitate such an exchange of information. But that hope founders on the vague information that swiftly invaded 'leopardml2341's' noble effort to define just which clearly identified models suffered from Mazak rot. That required editorial intervention to ensure that the good information didn't become inaccessible by being swamped.

 

That is enough to convince me that it would need a similarly scrupulous coordinating hand to ensure that only proven spares information appeared: and given the current breadth of choice of product, that's likely to be a significantly expensive and time consuming task. Because the only validation is a full test that the specified parts from classes X, Y, Z are indeed interchangeable, and not just in fit but also in function. I can tell you now, some things that look the same on the outside, are not functionally equivalent...

Edited February 20, 2020 by 34theletterbetweenB&D
clarification

[Mallard60022]

I have decided that I was too ambitious when I decided on a collection of loco's to serve my pathetically slowly developing layout. Not a clever idea really but who can resist bargains eh? I could easily have made do with half a dozen Packets and a dozen or so Spams of both modified and 'original' form examples. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and in my case is probably better described as having my head up my own asr$e when planning things. Hey ho, first world problems.

P