Network South East

[raetiamann]

Hi, I'm after some information regarding the timing of the end of Network South East & the introduction of freight services from EWS & Freighliner and wondering if there was any overlap between them. I also seem to recall some private passenger services began before NSE concluded activities, though that may be my memory playing tricks!  Any clarification much appreciated.

[Ian Morgan]

It took some time for the NSE livery to disappear after privatisation, especially the relatively new Class 165 DMUs that had a long warranty on the paint job that would have been voided if repainted. This pre-dated the use of vinyl overlays, I believe.

 

 

[raetiamann]

Thanks Ian. I know SWT made a variation to the NSE, with their orange stripe. Did any other TOCs do anything similar?

[SWT442]

Off the top of my head there's a few things I can think of.

 

Certain units clung onto NSE for quite a while. Most of the Class 365's on the ECML managed to retain the livery until at least 2007, when First Capital Connect took over. Not bad going when you consider that WAGN (West Anglia Great Northern) were the privatised company that took over from the BR/NSE operation in 1997!

 

This video on YouTube shows a pair of Slamdoor EMU's leaving Woking in 2005, at the 6 minute 20 second mark the rear unit is still in NSE but with SWT branding. Can't quite catch the unit number though.

 

Then there was 47711, which went into EWS ownership still wearing NSE colours and named "County of Hertfordshire". It kept the livery and name until 1998, when it was repainted into Virgin Trains livery but still retaining the original name. Not sure whether the ownership was transfered, or it was a long term hire-in by Virgin.

 

It's something that interests me, seeing how long certain liveries managed to last!

Andy.

Edited July 26, 2019 by SWT442

[raetiamann]

Cheers SWT442, quite some photos there.  Just now I'm split between my layout going recent SWT + maybe XC and/or GW or late in the NSE period, though it seems there is some overlap.  Certainly it will be a mix of DMUs & EMUs.

 

I've also got a small depot/fuelling point, hence the question about freight companies.

[great central]

Bit of slightly relevant information. 47715 is being used at Worksop now to keep stored mk4 coaches 'warm'. It's in NSE livery but I think is probably a post preservation repaint.

[SWT442]

33 minutes ago, raetiamann said:

Cheers SWT442, quite some photos there.  Just now I'm split between my layout going recent SWT + maybe XC and/or GW or late in the NSE period, though it seems there is some overlap.  Certainly it will be a mix of DMUs & EMUs.

 

I've also got a small depot/fuelling point, hence the question about freight companies.

 

A pleasure.

 

I model pretty much both those periods (1998-2002 & 2015 onwards), and find Flickr a great resource for finding photos of workings in those eras, and more so locomotives that were around. YouTube is also a good place to find footage of certain workings or locations and what ran through them.

 

The time around the turn of the 21st is quite an interesting period to model IMO, with the start of the 'GM Invasion' with Class 66 & 67 coming on tap but also many older locos running around and what liveries managed to evade the paintshop! It seemed anything went at that time, who would've thought you'd see a Railfreight Red Stripe Class 56 on a Virgin CrossCountry working?!

 

 

Andy.

[njee20]

Judging by the folk hanging out of the windows many were surprised by it!

[adb968008]

Theres an NSE livery container at Norwood Junction.

 

And if you want to see silver grey lining in hell, you don't have to go further than the Moorgate branch, most of the subsurface sections still have NSE branding, station signs, even wall mounted route maps.

 

But it is dark and dingy down there... and in this weather it's as hot and smelly as hell.

 

Ive got pictures of slamdoor stock in NSE livery (with SWT branding on top) in the early 2000’s.  For hauled stock, the last bastion of NSE mk2’s was probably in Scotland around the same time.

 

As for the last NSE livery loco in service... 87012, its still in service in NSE livery, but in Bulgaria... though it was painted NSE long after NSE ceased to exist.

Edited July 26, 2019 by adb968008

[andyman7]

Both the 165/166 units and 465/466 Networkers were delivered with a 10 year paint warranty. I was working for NSE through privatisation and basically the cost of repaints ran into £000s for which there was no money so effectively normally 1 or 2 units got a new livery for PR purposes and the rest then had to wait until they cycled through works. Networkers finally began to get Connex livery only a year or two before they were kicked off the South Eastern franchise in 2003. The Southeastern managment team that came in afterwards just adapted it - indeed the Electrostar fleet has only gone into Southeastern blue livery in the last couple of years as they finally fell due for a repaint, before that they were essentially still in Connex livery.

 

When CGEA took over Network South East South Central division, they took a few months to devise the Connex brand and at least one slam door got repainted into full NSE livery without the name as the works had no alternative spec to work to. When the MD found out phone calls were made and successive units were outshopped in grey until the new livery was finalised.

 

The 365s, ordered druing the privatisaton process as a politcal sop to the lack of new train orders after 1992, also received full NSE livery even though they only went into service post-privatisation. Connex got round this by vinyling the lower part of the bodyside in yellow to cover up the red toothpaste stripe in a sort of hybrid livery. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by andyman7

[andyman7]

8 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

And if you want to see silver grey lining in hell, you don't have to go further than the Moorgate branch, most of the subsurface sections still have NSE branding, station signs, even wall mounted route maps.

 

These have been replaced in the last couple of months, they the very last stations still in full NSE colours. But there are still uite a few clues still out there, the Victoria central side platform clocks are still NSE red with branding, a few signs still survive such as at Herne Hill on the old signal box, Cholsey platform 1 I noticed last week still had NSE signs with the toothpaste stripe over-vinyled. 

[adb968008]

21 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

These have been replaced in the last couple of months, they the very last stations still in full NSE colours. But there are still uite a few clues still out there, the Victoria central side platform clocks are still NSE red with branding, a few signs still survive such as at Herne Hill on the old signal box, Cholsey platform 1 I noticed last week still had NSE signs with the toothpaste stripe over-vinyled. 

I was there this week...

they haven't, still several 313’s running (my reason for being there)

pictures to follow.

 

if you want the feeling of BR 1970’s, with “upgraded” faded NSE you still can.. looks even grimmer with a  313 thats had its vinyls stripped off, including very faded paintwork underneath.

 

its got to be the dingiest part of the tube.. I spent 90 minutes wandering Moorgate, Old Street and Essex Rd on Tuesday, its eerie being on one tunnel platform with dozens heading out of London, only to goto the other tunnel platform and see an empty train with just you on the platform and dim flickering lights.

Edited July 26, 2019 by adb968008

[adb968008]

Just pulled my 2000 platform 5...

 

the red death had been delivered and all 250 were running, plus many Freightliner 66’s.

 

amongst the numbers in the book I can see 47715 / 73129 in NSE  and coaches 5384/5410/39/43/6/7/9/50/4/62/4/71/2/5/80/94 though the coaches are “allocated” to Kineton, Carnforth and Kingmoor, so doubt there were servicable.

Edited July 26, 2019 by adb968008

[John M Upton]

The two car Class 456 EMU's with one exception managed to retain their NSE colours well into Go-Via South Central/Southern days for some reason.

 

Only the last one, 456024 got Connex Brake Dust Brown livery.

[stewartingram]

Don't forget that Downham Market station has been repainted into NSE colours recently.

 

Stewart

[Davexoc]

21 hours ago, njee20 said:

Judging by the folk hanging out of the windows many were surprised by it!

Or just getting some air as 56s can't supply ETS for the air-con. stock. But expect its the former.....

[4630]

7 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Don't forget that Downham Market station has been repainted into NSE colours recently.

 

Stewart

 

There are some photos of Downham Market in my gallery here that I took in May 2017, shortly after the repainting into NSE.

[EddieK]

Whatever happened to the proposed franchise of the Cambridge to Dartford service? West Anglia North Kent Electric Railway Service. (Will let you work that one out...)

Edited July 28, 2019 by EddieK

[TravisM]

I think the last of the true NSE painted stock lasted until the late 90’s.  Networker stock originally had a two pack paint finish which I believe had a 10 year warranty and though vinyls could be applied, I think they had to be really careful to make sure the glue didn’t impact the paint finish.

[andyman7]

On 27/07/2019 at 10:25, John M Upton said:

The two car Class 456 EMU's with one exception managed to retain their NSE colours well into Go-Via South Central/Southern days for some reason.

 

Only the last one, 456024 got Connex Brake Dust Brown livery.

The 456s were new 1989-1990 and not due repaints until around 2000. Therefore one was done for press launch purposes in 1996 and that was it. By the time they were due repaints they went straight into Southern livery.

[cravensdmufan]

On 27/07/2019 at 20:15, 4630 said:

 

There are some photos of Downham Market in my gallery here that I took in May 2017, shortly after the repainting into NSE.

Love those photos of Downham Market.

 

The paintwork and signage looks smart.  Very nice indeed.

 

Any idea why the station was refurbished in retro NSE style?  Edit: https://www.yourlocalpaper.co.uk/2017/05/05/stations-new-livery/

Edited July 30, 2019 by cravensdmufan
Answered my own question!

[stewartingram]

Kings Lynn is done in British Railways style; I think this was an initiative by the outgoing FCC TOC.

 

Stewart

[cravensdmufan]

1 hour ago, stewartingram said:

Kings Lynn is done in British Railways style; I think this was an initiative by the outgoing FCC TOC.

 

Stewart

Ah yes, just found this image https://www.picfair.com/pics/05369622-kings-lynn-railway-station-norfolk-county-england-uk

 

Very smart, but not quite as authentic.  Nevertheless it's good to see station refurbishments with a nod to previous operators. A nice touch.

[stewartingram]

I posted a number of pics on here when it was first restored. The BR totems at that time were black; a recent visit showed they had been changed to blue.

 

Stewart