Loco sheds

[Sol]

In the days of steam, were there small stations that may have had a steam loco with coal & water facilities but no shed?

I was thinking of having such a facility on one of my stations but don't have room for a shed.
 

[stewartingram]

Not quite small, but even Ely was without a building, so quite plausible.

 

Stewart

[Sol]

Thanks Stewart

[The Johnster]

Most small terminus stations, not all but most, had some sort of loco facilities; water at the very least, and often a small coal stage as well.  A covered shed building suggests an inspection pit, a fitter, and an allocated loco, but a loco may be left in 'light steam' overnight out in the open as well where no shed is provided.  In the case of a BLT, much depends on the timetable, which determines where the first train of the day leaves from and where the last of the day terminates, basically a small shed at the terminus with a carriage siding or the stock left in the platform, or facilities at the main line junction which include the loco, allocated to a larger shed there.

 

In the case of small through stations, matters are less clear, but in general it is less likely that there are  any loco facilities beyond a water column.  Trains run in, then out again.  But there are situations where more facilities may be present, even a shed, for example if the through station was an original terminus for a line that was later extended, or if land to build the shed was available here but not at the terminus.

[Wickham Green]

25 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

In the case of small through stations, matters are less clear, but in general it is less likely that there are  any loco facilities beyond a water column.  Trains run in, then out again.  But there are situations where more facilities may be present, even a shed, for example if the through station was an original terminus for a line that was later extended, or if land to build the shed was available here but not at the terminus.

........ or, perhaps, if a branch line was operated from here : the junction may be remote from the station ( off scene in model terms ).

[pH]

From the 1962 'British Locomotive Shed Directory':

 

Warrington Central (subshed of 27E Walton-on-the-Hill)

"The locomotives stand at the south side of Warrington Central Station. There is no shed building. Entrance is effected from the station platform."

 

I 'did' this shed in January 1965, in the dark, in a downpour, with the temperature just above freezing. There were 2 Stanier Fives and an Ivatt 4MT mogul on shed. There was at least one water column, and there were inspection pits. I can't remember if there was any coal supply.

[TravisM]

I’m sure that all terminus stations in the steam era would have had at least one water column to replenish the steam locos water supply before returning.  The coal supply would be a different thing depending on where the loco first started from and where it finished on it’s diagram.

[Sol]

Thanks for that info.

[Right Away]

Depending on your timeline, you might consider a "once was" scenario whereby a loco shed had fallen into disrepair (as did many) leaving perhaps one outer wall remaining. A low relief feature taking up little space at the rear of your railway might fit the bill. 

Eastbourne loco, although probably larger than you propose, in its final days would be an example and give a general idea.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Right Away

[Nick Holliday]

On the Hayling Island branch there were primitive coaling platforms at each end of the branch, Havant and Hayling Island. The Terriers were stabled overnight at Fratton shed and ran the six and a half mile trip to Havant before starting work. At Havant, at least, sometimes the coaling was carried out directly from the wagon on the adjacent track. Water was also available at both locations.

[Banger Blue]

Ledbury - coaling platform, water tank & turntable but no shed.

(page 179 “An Historical Survey of Great Western Engine Sheds 1947”)

 

Also Honeybourne, no actual building but coaling facilities.

(page 57 of Bradford Barton’s “Great Western Steam through the Cotswolds”)

Edited July 30, 2019 by Banger Blue

[The Stationmaster]

Water columns were a feature of a lot of the railway - not just loco depots and stations.  They were so numerous for one very important reason - steam engines used a lot of water.  So you would find columns at many stations but particularly where engines were likely to stand for even a few minutes and in yards and in some cases even adjacent to loop lines or refuge sidings but always provided a suitable supply could be arranged.

 

On our local 5 mile long branchline we had a water tower at the terminus (where water was pumped from an underground source into the storage tank) and it also fed  several water columns around the yard.  At the junction end there were no water columns but there were  columns at the next station in each direction.  So effectively about 10 miles between places where water was available.

[Clive Mortimore]

There were loads, just thinking about London, there was Bottom Shed (also known as Passenger Loco) at Kings Cross coal, water, ash pits and turn table, Ranelagh Bridge at Paddington, water, turn table and ash pits, Moorgate had water columns and ash pits, Liverpool Street had a turn table, ash pits, water and coal as did Waterloo.

 

Don't forget the ash pit as important as coal and water when servicing a loco.

[The Johnster]

Clarence Road, a busy commuter BLT in Cardiff's Docklands, had no water facilities and is I think unusual if not unique in this, though Barry Pier may have been similarly waterless.  This terminus was only used by excursion traffic connecting with the pleasure steamers, though, and not part of the regular service.  Operating here demanded quick turnarounds and I assume that water was taken if required at Cardiff General, only a mile away.  

 

St Deveraux, a minor passing station between Abergavenny and Hereford closed in 1964 I think, had a water tower and the signalman farmed trout in it, as a sideline.  One wonders how often a hapless fish ended up in a loco tank...

[ejstubbs]

On 29/07/2019 at 11:36, Sol said:

In the days of steam, were there small stations that may have had a steam loco with coal & water facilities but no shed?

 

Your thread reminded me of this thread of mine from earlier this year, which included some discussion as to the prevalence or otherwise of loco sheds at smaller stations.  It ended up being more of a discussion about which smaller stations did have a shed - but you could well read that as evidence that not having a shed was more the norm, with the presence of a shed being somewhat of an exception.

 

EDIT: I note that The Johnster mentioned Clarence Road on my thread as well!  In fact, it seems to pop up quite a lot on RMWeb - it even has its own thread in the Welsh Area Group section of the forum.

Edited July 30, 2019 by ejstubbs

[Chris Turnbull]

Water columns and turntables were listed in the Appendix to the Working Timetables and this is the first page (of 22) from that for the Southern Area of the LNER from 17th October 1927.   

Water columns.pdf

Whilst the majority were, as you would expect, in loco yards this was by no means universal.  Stewart Ingram has already pointed out Ely which had a 55 feet turntable and numerous columns but no building whilst at Felixstowe, Town station had a turntable and column but no building whilst Beach had a proper loco shed and tank but no turntable, details thus:

Water columns Ely and Felixstowe.pdf

Interestingly Mildenhall had a turntable but no water supply and no building:

Water columns Mildenhall.pdf

You have a wide choice!

 

Chris Turnbull

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Chris Turnbull

[stewartingram]

A bit OT, but can anyone assist please?

I have a very old (& careworn) Mikes Models GER water column. I don't think that version is available any more, so does anyone know of an alternative source, such as resin or 3D? Or would it possible to cast resin from mine? I need a few of these,

 

Stewart

[The Johnster]

Clarence Road is interesting in several ways.  A GW branch, initially freight only, it was notable in pregrouping days for having no GW passenger traffic even after the GW opened Clarence Road station; services were provided by running powers granted to the Taff Vale (from Penarth or Cadoxton via Penarth) and the Barry (Pontypridd Graig via St. Fagan’s/SWML and Barry/Vale of Glamorgan).  The GW handled the freight traffic, which served the factories and workshops along Curran Road and the Glamorganshire Canal.  The canal company had their own loco, a Peckett called Derlwyn, replaced when Cardiff City Council took over the canal with a Greenwood and Batley battery electric loco, un-named but in the Council’s maroon livery with the city coat of arms on the cabside. 

[tomparryharry]

12 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Clarence Road is interesting in several ways.  A GW branch, initially freight only, it was notable in pregrouping days for having no GW passenger traffic even after the GW opened Clarence Road station; services were provided by running powers granted to the Taff Vale (from Penarth or Cadoxton via Penarth) and the Barry (Pontypridd Graig via St. Fagan’s/SWML and Barry/Vale of Glamorgan).  The GW handled the freight traffic, which served the factories and workshops along Curran Road and the Glamorganshire Canal.  The canal company had their own loco, a Peckett called Derlwyn, replaced when Cardiff City Council took over the canal with a Greenwood and Batley battery electric loco, un-named but in the Council’s maroon livery with the city coat of arms on the cabside. 

How about Penarth Dock, Johnster? After the shed had closed, of course....

[Wickham Green]

13 hours ago, stewartingram said:

A bit OT, but can anyone assist please?

I have a very old (& careworn) Mikes Models GER water column. I don't think that version is available any more, so does anyone know of an alternative source, such as resin or 3D? Or would it possible to cast resin from mine? I need a few of these,

 

Stewart

I got a 'Southern' one - actually LSWR - from Skytrex ..... I don't know what else they do !!?!

[Wickham Green]

19 hours ago, The Johnster said:

......., though Barry Pier may have been similarly waterless. ................

Water, water everywhere but not a drop - for the loco - to drink !

 

Your description of St Deveraux reminds me of  Battersby Junction - which I don't think has been mentioned before : no shed, no 'table but water columns with goldfish in the drip tanks.

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Clarence Road, a busy commuter BLT in Cardiff's Docklands, had no water facilities and is I think unusual if not unique in this, though Barry Pier may have been similarly waterless.  This terminus was only used by excursion traffic connecting with the pleasure steamers, though, and not part of the regular service.  Operating here demanded quick turnarounds and I assume that water was taken if required at Cardiff General, only a mile away.  

 

St Deveraux, a minor passing station between Abergavenny and Hereford closed in 1964 I think, had a water tower and the signalman farmed trout in it, as a sideline.  One wonders how often a hapless fish ended up in a loco tank...

No water column at Barry Pier but there were at least three at Barry Island (and at six locations in Barry Docks).

[Barcaldinegoods]

On ‎30‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 08:18, Nick Holliday said:

On the Hayling Island branch there were primitive coaling platforms at each end of the branch, Havant and Hayling Island. The Terriers were stabled overnight at Fratton shed and ran the six and a half mile trip to Havant before starting work. At Havant, at least, sometimes the coaling was carried out directly from the wagon on the adjacent track. Water was also available at both locations.

Hi,

The Hayling Island branch originally (Victorian times at least) had an engine shed (shown on old maps, e.g. NLS website) roughly half way between Havant and Langston, so 'in the middle of nowhere' then, about where the A27 bypass crosses the trackbed today. The book I read (can find the ref if anyone interested) said it was built there as it is next to a stream, i.e. a handy water supply. I cycle past this point on the (Hayling) 'Billy Line' bridle way regularly, and there is indeed a stream alongside and a level area near the point marked on the map.   

Chris.      

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

How about Penarth Dock, Johnster? After the shed had closed, of course....

Not a terminus.  I'm trying to remember if Cogan, across the road, had water and I don't believe it did, even in the goods loops where trains could be held for some time awaiting a path.  Water was available round the corner at Llandough yard; i remember a large water tower with a stone base.

 

The availability of water depends not only on the requirements of the locos and the timetable, but the availability of suitable fresh (and ideally soft) water locally.  Piping and perhaps pumping water to locations that don't have it, and softening it in limestone or chalk areas, is expensive, and while in an ideal world water would be available everywhere, this isn't an ideal world, so part of drivers' route knowledge was knowing where water was available, and planning accordingly.  In other parts of the world locos were fitted with pumps and hoses from which they could draw water from streams and rivers when needed.  AFAIK this was never done in the UK, and would have caused havoc on busy lines!

 

A feature of mineral working in the Rhondda valley was the necessity to take on water from a column at Trehafod coming down with the loaded, which required precision stopping with heavy loaded coal trains in order to position the loco so that the 'bag' could reach the filler on the tank top.  If you missed this because your train had pushed you past it, there was none til you got past Pontypridd, where you were often held waiting for the road, so matters could occasionally become critical.  Running out of water meant dropping the fire and failing the loco, so not only was it a hanging offence, but if you did it you would never be allowed to live it down.  The driver was responsible for ensuring that sufficient water was carried aboard the loco, and the fireman for ensuring that the level in the boiler was always sufficient to cover the fusible plug, so water was a major concern for both men.

[Wickham Green]

10 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

................. In other parts of the world locos were fitted with pumps and hoses from which they could draw water from streams and rivers when needed.  AFAIK this was never done in the UK, and would have caused havoc on busy lines! ....................

Water lifting gear was pretty well standard on ROAD locomotives and I'm sure I've come across it somewhere on rails - quite possibly within Colonel Stephens empire. Titfield Thunderbolt would have been a far less entertaining film if the GWR had fitted it to 1400s !