Parkside LMS cct. PC33 lettering

[Graham456]

Some time ago I built a parkside dundas PC33 LMS CCT to diagram 1929 but it stalled due to a house move ! And lack of information on the lettering I know what is supposed to be their and what it says but due to lack of books and pictures even after a internet search  I don't know which lettering to use , I've seen yellow and white lettering used on the crimson lake paint

I am Modeling as built.

 I have hrms sheets 1,2,2a and 6 wagon lettering none of which have what I have seen on line pictures of these vehicles, not that there are many real thing pictures on line and the only LMS coach book I have has only a tidily picture in anyway

 any thoughts as to what I am looking for please

graham

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Graham456

[The Johnster]

Have a look on Cambridge Transfers site if you want BR period lettering. 

[Steamport Southport]

I don't think I've seen an LMS era photo. I think they just had the number, LMS and load in what was standard simplified 1930s passenger livery. I don't think they had loads of text on the sides like they did under BR.

 

There is a BR era one in the original version of The LMS Coach book by Essery and Jenkinson. I haven't got the relevant reissue but it has a lot more information in. There is nothing about them in the Pendragon Historic Carriage Drawings: Volume 3 NPCS by Tatlow. They may be covered in the LMS volume, but I can't find my copy.

 

I used  Modelmaster on my BR one, but that was years ago. Now I believe they come with transfers. I don't know how accurate they are. At the time it was a case of "that will do" and will probably get a repaint and detailing at some point.

 

 

 

Jason

 

[Graham456]

Well a month has gone by and I still can't Finnish this model

i repeat I Am building AS BUILT long before British rail !

the only transfers I have found are black shaded yellow

where as the models pictured on the web are plane yellow

what do I use? Please

[brossard]

I wrote this some time ago: 

There might be some info that you need.

 

John

[jwealleans]

Parkside PC33 is the one with the side windows, isn't it?  They were passenger rated stock (unlike the windowless one, apparently) and so would have been painted carriage maroon.

 

Lettering would have been the yellow shaded black "LMS yellow loco and coach insignia" sheet on the HMRS website (annoyingly it doesn't give the reference).  As has already been said, there doesn't seem to have been a great deal of lettering on these - 'LMS' to the left end about half way up and a number to the right hand end at the same level is about it.  If you can get a sight of Essery's 'The LMS Coach' I think there is a photo (mine is a very old edition.

[Flood]

The LMS Standard Coaching Stock vol 1 (General introduction and Non-Passenger Vehicles) by Jenkinson and Essery has two photos ex works.

 

35485 in 1935 with LMS to the left and the number to the right with the smaller NPCS style shaded LMS and unshaded sans-serif carriage numerals. The CCT is 12 planks high with the numbers/lettering on the 7th plank up. The LMS is centred between the two left hand windows, the number is centred between the two right hand windows. The tare is in italics in the far right lower corner.

 

35590 in 1937 with LMS to the right and the number to the left (the reverse of the previous CCT) with the smaller NPCS style shaded LMS but also with pre-1933 style shaded numerals. The CCT is 12 planks high with the numbers/lettering on the 4th plank up. The number is centred to the right edge of the first left hand window, the LMS is centred to the left edge of the last right hand window . The tare has not been applied.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Flood

[brossard]

The side window CCT (see my link) was built in the 1930s and was passenger rated.  The later version without windows was built, IIRC, in 1940 and was pretty much identical to the earlier version except for windows.  The "bauxite" was called "Lake" and was the undercoat for the crimson lake topcoat.  In 1940, the crimson lake was not use for austerity reasons.

 

Hornby did a very good version of the later van (it is in the Parkside range as well):

 

 

The picture reflects my underframe upgrades.

 

John

[Graham456]

YES !

it was worth the poke reminder I have a answer shaded yellow lettering thanks jwealleans and flood

and thanks bossard for reloading the pictures perhaps as they were down is why a search didn't reveal them when I first looked a month and bit ago, I did look I assure you ! Quite interesting how many models have white lettering on maroon paint which didn't ring true to me......on to the next project!

[jwealleans]

The later, windowless diagram (D2026?) was first built 1938 and Bob Essery explicitly states that they were rated as goods stock and given the freight brown livery and white lettering.

 

I believe they later went crimson, maroon and blue under BR, so they were right on the cusp of NPCC/freight stock.

[ejstubbs]

On 30/09/2019 at 11:07, Flood said:

The LMS Standard Coaching Stock vol 1 (General introduction and Non-Passenger Vehicles) by Jenkinson and Essery has two photos ex works.

 

Having looked up that reference, it seems to me that No 35590 (the one in Plate 98) has black end doors.  Would this be correct for 1937 - or is it perhaps a trick of the light?

 

I note that photo also shows the vehicle's maximum load marked on the solebar near the left-hand end as "8.0.T" (the second full stop seeming to be an error?) in what looks like white sans serif.  To its left, virtually at the far left hand end of the solebar, is "MR" in a slightly smaller typeface.  Excuse my ignorance but what does the "MR" stand for?

[markw]

Yes LMS coach livery changed to black ends around the end of 1936.

MR is the LMS coach code for a van with end doors, the M possibly means Motorcar, Jenkinson and essery Appendix 1 lists some of these codes