Imaginary Locomotives

[2251]

On 02/04/2021 at 17:27, Gilwell Park said:

Some time ago I was watching my granddaughter driving James, very fast, round my layout. I realised that James is a very unusual locomotive, apart from his ability to speak that is. He is an inside cylinder 2-6-0. I have only found 2 such classes in the UK, One on the Caledonian & one on the Glasgow & South Western plus one in Ireland. I

 

Plus the GWR 2600 class:

 

[ScottishRailFanatic]

Remember the BR MLVs used for the Southern region? What if the SR pursued the concept a bit earlier on to assist on the boat trains? Apologies for the edit quality (rushed it a bit) but I thought it was an interesting concept.

[ScottishRailFanatic]

In recent times I’ve noticed my old Hornby 0-4-0, which sits in a drawer with the couplings and buffers sawn off by my little brother, runs incredibly. It’s reliable, never falters on points, and - somehow - has the ability to go slow! One day it turned from a Pocket Rocket to a beauty of a runner in the space of a second (spooky!) and I have no idea how, but I don’t want to let the chassis go to waste. Any imaginary ideas for a possible use for it?

[LNWR18901910]

On 02/04/2021 at 17:27, Gilwell Park said:

Some time ago I was watching my granddaughter driving James, very fast, round my layout. I realised that James is a very unusual locomotive, apart from his ability to speak that is. He is an inside cylinder 2-6-0. I have only found 2 such classes in the UK, One on the Caledonian & one on the Glasgow & South Western plus one in Ireland. I thought that it could be regarded as the goods equivalent of the 4-4-0. I read somewhere that James Holder of the GER considered a small wheeled Claud Hamilton for mixed traffic work, supplementing the E4 2-4-0 but never went ahead. I therefor present the LNER K10 class. An A. J. Hill development of the B12. A better loco for MT work than his heavy freight J20. It is built on a Hornby 0-6-0 chassis with a 3F footplate & original B12 cab, boiler & smokebox with front footplate attached . I have assumed that LNER rebuilt them with a round topped boiler as they did the B12/1 & the J20. 21mm Romford driving wheels are fitted. It is numbered in the unused 640xx series between the 2-8-0 & the 0-6-0. With a very old X04 motor it is a very useful engine.  Roger.

What origin would this locomotive be - Great Eastern or North Eastern? It looks very interesting. Does it run well in both directions?

[DK123GWR]

27 minutes ago, ScottishRailFanatic said:

In recent times I’ve noticed my old Hornby 0-4-0, which sits in a drawer with the couplings and buffers sawn off by my little brother, runs incredibly. It’s reliable, never falters on points, and - somehow - has the ability to go slow! One day it turned from a Pocket Rocket to a beauty of a runner in the space of a second (spooky!) and I have no idea how, but I don’t want to let the chassis go to waste. Any imaginary ideas for a possible use for it?

A few hundred to get you started:

Also, I am planning to create a whole range of GWR light railway locomotives based on the 101, which in this universe was far more succesful than in real life. My first is an 0-4-0 tender engine with inside cylinders, and the first stages are already in the thread above. The only real limit on what can be done is your imagination.

[Gilwell Park]

1 hour ago, LNWR18901910 said:

What origin would this locomotive be - Great Eastern or North Eastern? It looks very interesting. Does it run well in both directions?

Very definitely Great Eastern. Runs well either way but as there is no front coupling it cannot pull a train in reverse.

[rodent279]

On 06/04/2021 at 12:47, 2251 said:

 

Plus the GWR 2600 class:

 

A deserving case for a new build, surely, apart from the frames, possible from the kits of parts of various unrestored GWR locos lying around? Also would make a rather nice RTR model.

Edited April 9, 2021 by rodent279

[The Johnster]

Not in that exact form, but possibly with the no.4 standard taper boiler these locos carried in later versions and to which this prototype was rebuilt.  They lasted until the late 40s but AFAIK none ever carried any BR livery, but widespread around the GW so a possible RTR subject, maybe as a development of Dapol's 43xx mogul, boiler and axle spacing being common to both locos.  For a rebuild/new build, a no.4 boiler, 4'7" wheels, large prairie coupling rods are probaby available, but a complete new engine, based on the CoT/Dukedog pattern, and the frames, would need to be be built from scratch.  I would think a pannier type crank driving axle might be usable, but new connecting rods would be needed.  After that, fabricating the cab should be a doddle.

 

These locos are not well known, difficult to love on looks, and I have never heard of one being used on a passenger train, so I would think a new build is unlikely to attract enough enthusiasm or backing to be feasible, but good luck say I if anyone does want to have a go!  The result would be a handy piece of kit for the larger heritage lines, easily capable of economically hauling full length trains at 25 mph (maybe a bit of a struggle for Great Central timings).

[rodent279]

Beauty is in the eye........

They're not exactly easy on the eye, in the same way as CoT, Castles and others, but I think they're a solid, chunky no-nonsense design that clearly stood the test of time, and earnt their keep.

4'7" wheels would be the same as a small Prairie, but would require a crank axle, the pony truck from a small Prairie might be useable as well.

If a new boiler was required, possibly a couple of no.4's could be built, as spares for existing locos, to lower unit costs (maybe it doesn't work that way, I don't know?), or a generic parallel boiler & Belpaire firebox could be used, with suitable cladding to make it look right, as built originally.

[JimC]

13 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

maybe as a development of Dapol's 43xx mogul, boiler and axle spacing being common to both locos. 

I thought the wheel spacing on the 26s was  7'6+7'6, different to the Churchward Standards. With the exception of the Std 4 boiler I thought the only common parts were with Dukes and Bulldogs.

[Miss Prism]

2 hours ago, JimC said:

I thought the wheel spacing on the 26s was  7'6+7'6, different to the Churchward Standards.

 

Correct.

[The Johnster]

Even harder to construct a new one out of extant GW bits, then. 

[Hroth]

On 06/04/2021 at 12:47, 2251 said:

 

Plus the GWR 2600 class:

 

 

I know you were adding the 62xx as a member of that select group of inside cylinder 2-6-0 locos, but I prefer 2601 as a loco that perhaps should have remained imaginary!

 

 

The 2-6-0 is a much toned down version of the class leader...

 

[Northmoor]

Whoever's "Imagination" led to the creation of 2601 must have been badly drug-affected.

[JimC]

Its the boiler top sandbox that really hits the ugly tag. The later 2-6-0s without are merely ill-proportioned by comparison.

There's a really rough photo here: https://www.railadvent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Unknown-2602-Class-Credit-Postcards-From-The-Past.jpg

[rodent279]

12 minutes ago, JimC said:

Its the boiler top sandbox that really hits the ugly tag. The later 2-6-0s without are merely ill-proportioned by comparison.

There's a really rough photo here: https://www.railadvent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Unknown-2602-Class-Credit-Postcards-From-The-Past.jpg

In original parallel boiler form, yes, they do look not quite right, but with no. 4 taper boiler & top feed, they definitely have a rugged, get-on-with-the-job look about them.

 

 

They look to me like a shortened, outside framed inside cylinders 28xx. I guess a kind of halfway house could be done if a small Prairie were fitted with a no.4 boiler, and a tender instead of side tanks. The result would be an outside cylinder mogul, with 4'7" wheels-another GWR neverwazza, like the light mogul 9351.

Edited April 9, 2021 by rodent279

[Co-tr-Paul]

Just going to throw this one out there for the tech heads.....

For a Western Region dare I say " upgrade " to electrical transmission ... ,

A class 35 Hymek but with Sulzer class 33 engine ,  dual heat and dual brake.... ?  A class 34 ? Perhaps later refurbished into a 34/4 air/eth only....  ?_

Edited April 9, 2021 by Co-tr-Paul
Spellchecker corrections!

[Flying Pig]

Not a GWR fanboy, but one thing Swindon could do was make a Belpaire firebox look sexy.  Obviously they had to learn how at some point and unfortunately there are photographs to prove that.

 

[Ramblin Rich]

10 hours ago, Co-tr-Paul said:

Just going to throw this one out there for the tech heads.....

For a Western Region dare I say " upgrade " to electrical transmission ... ,

A class 35 Hymek but with Sulzer class 33 engine ,  dual heat and dual brake.... ?  A class 34 ? Perhaps later refurbished into a 34/4 air/eth only....  ?_

As said before, I think there should have been more 33s as eth became more widespread. I believe the same people styled the BRCW "Lion" and the Hymeks, so could we have a 2nd generation 33 with Lion styling?

Or going the other way, BRCW saved money on Lion by not using a styling company, coming out with a stretched Co-Co version of a 33 for the type 4 prototype...

[JimC]

11 hours ago, rodent279 said:

In original parallel boiler form, yes, they do look not quite right, but with no. 4 taper boiler & top feed, they definitely have a rugged, get-on-with-the-job look about them.

Talking at cross purposes - I meant the later 2-6-0 Krugers, not the Aberdares. 

[lazythread]

Don't know if you'd get a Sulzer engine in a Hymek, they're too short. I believe the Maybach MD870 engine can go up to 2000HP, so remove the boiler and add an eth generator or an auxiliary engine. 

 

Now a Maybach MD870 will fit a Baby Deltic. Type 3/4 power with eth and air brakes.......

Edited April 10, 2021 by lazythread
Remove ambiguity

[The Johnster]

13 hours ago, rodent279 said:

In original parallel boiler form, yes, they do look not quite right, but with no. 4 taper boiler & top feed, they definitely have a rugged, get-on-with-the-job look about them.

 

 

They look to me like a shortened, outside framed inside cylinders 28xx. I guess a kind of halfway house could be done if a small Prairie were fitted with a no.4 boiler, and a tender instead of side tanks. The result would be an outside cylinder mogul, with 4'7" wheels-another GWR neverwazza, like the light mogul 9351.

I doubt if a small prairie frame could accommodate a no.4’s length; no.10 as fitted to 2251, 94xx, and 15xx might work

 but there are only 4 such boilers extant TTBOMK, all spoken for and in service bar the one on 9400, and I can’t see that being made available 

[JimC]

6 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I doubt if a small prairie frame could accommodate a no.4’s length; no.10 as fitted to 2251, 94xx, and 15xx might work

 but there are only 4 such boilers extant TTBOMK, all spoken for and in service bar the one on 9400, and I can’t see that being made available 

I did some sketches for a chap who has a vision based on a shortened Standard 2 boiler, akin to the BR class 3 - and probably, now I think of it, probably not too different from a GWR Std 3. I agree, a Std 2 or 4 (essentially much the same length) wouldn't fit on a small prairie chassis - the last pair of driving wheels would interfere with the firebox. If you moved the last pair of wheels back though something might be done. A Std 2 boiler might be a better match than a Std 4. 

[BernardTPM]

4 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Or going the other way, BRCW saved money on Lion by not using a styling company, coming out with a stretched Co-Co version of a 33 for the type 4 prototype...

BR appointed Wilkes & Ashmore for both Lion and Falcon, so the external design was BR rather than BRCW. The designers preferred livery wasn't white and gold, but shades of grey, but done in a similar way to that eventual Brush type 4. Interestingly there was black round the intermediate windscreens pillars.

Shades of grey and black windscreens were both used on the 1987 Railfreight livery, of course.

[33C]

15 hours ago, rodent279 said:

In original parallel boiler form, yes, they do look not quite right, but with no. 4 taper boiler & top feed, they definitely have a rugged, get-on-with-the-job look about them.

 

 

They look to me like a shortened, outside framed inside cylinders 28xx. I guess a kind of halfway house could be done if a small Prairie were fitted with a no.4 boiler, and a tender instead of side tanks. The result would be an outside cylinder mogul, with 4'7" wheels-another GWR neverwazza, like the light mogul 9351.

Check out my "Lima Bash!" thread for a quick, Aberdare conversion.