RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted March 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, John Besley said: Yes that works .... this is the inside of my grounded van body workshop Sorry - saw the pictures but didn't make the connection. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted March 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2021 18 hours ago, The Johnster said: One could justify the 350hp loco as a version of the 08 capable of running faster than the 0-6-0 versions for trip and transfer work; there is no need to increase the power rating, as it would be capable of replacing 0-6-0 steam tank locos on such work and matching their speed. 08s became a the go to for this work post-steam, the various 800hp 'road switchers', D82xx, D84xx, 10800, not having made the cut, and were a PITA for signalmen who had to get them out of the way of the normal traffic asap. The 08s were probably the best all round yard shunting/station pilot loco ever built in the UK, but it was something of a one trick pony. We never really got the hang of 'road switchers', the nearest thing to ticking this box properly being the Rolls Royce Claytons. In the event the work dried up at the same time as steam was eliminated, but I remember 08s on trip work in the 70s and even a mile or so distance was a traffic blocker. I would suggest the Class 14 was actually the ideal, but then it was designed specifically as a trip-working loco. The Class 14 betters the 08 by having enough (650 vs 350) horsepower but also a 40mph top speed, so could actually exceed the maximum speed of most of the wagon fleet at the time. As you suggest, there is a big difference in potential disruption between a freight at 20mph and one at 40mph. However, there probably isn't a better example of the "genius" of 1960s BR management, where one department progresses the design, build and introduction of a fleet of locomotives, optimised for traffic that another department is planning to withdraw the company from altogether. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLBH Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 On 19/03/2021 at 20:10, PhilJ W said: Placed centrally like the APT power car? or perhaps as a freight locomotive? It would look decidedly less odd as a Co-Co, I think. Not much use as a way of using spare 91 bits, though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Northmoor said: ... However, there probably isn't a better example of the "genius" of 1960s BR management, where one department progresses the design, build and introduction of a fleet of locomotives, optimised for traffic that another department is planning to withdraw the company from altogether. More particularly the genius of the Western Region 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2021 'Road Switchers' had been a fairly significant part of the intentions of the 1955 Modernisation Plan, sub-1khp Type 1s, and all of them proved less than successful despite being an established feature of the US scene that so much influenced the Plan, and early British diesels, in general. I am not qualified to comment on the reasons for the failure of the D82xx, D84xx, or early D85xx without RR engines. The RR engined Clayton centre cabs were probably the best of an uninspiring bunch, along of course with EE's Class 20, which managed to carve a niche for itself as a double headed 2khp MGR hauler. The D95xx were a slightly different story, not really a Plan locomotive but concieved as a replacement for the 94xx steam locos, themselves of dubious value given their short working lives. The 94xx were the fulfilment of the GW's policy in upgrading and then replacing locos acquired at the grouping, and it was considered when they were ordered (subject to the aforementioned WR genius in such matters) that there was work for them. In reality, production delays partly caused by having to clear a backlog of broken down Warships from the erecting bays at Swindon followed by playing catchup with newbuild Westerns, meant that the changing traffic scene had effectively rendered them unrequired before they were introduced to traffic in 1965, as the last 94xx were being withdrawn. Traffic demands changed drastically in the decade 1955-65, to the detriment of rail and benefit of road hauliers. Roads were being improved and lorries cheaper and more efficient, while the railway was restrained from adapting to the new situation by the common carrier requirement until the 1962 Transport Act, which was followed within a year by the Beeching Report. It is easy with our 20/20 hindsight to criticise loco ordering decisions made in the late 50s or early 60s, when the traffic was dissapearing within the time it took to plan, design, order, and build the locomotives; the situation was worse on the WR where a political decision to be the first region to eliminate steam led to underpowered diesels being thrashed to keep time, which resulted in the near collapse of the timetable in '62( the region having to bail itself out with 37s and 47s within a year), and the resultant bay blocking that delayed the Swindon Westerns, and the D95xx to the point that they were unrequired by the time they were available for service. In the event the D95xx proved not powerful enough for South Wales mineral work, unable to stop the trains descending banks, and unreliable; a Canton driver commented to me in the 70s that 'you never knew if it would start, and if it started, you were never sure it would stop. Lovely big cab though...'. What was needed to replace the 94xx was a RR engined Clayton, or possibly a 20 with a cab each end, 58 style. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted March 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2021 I think we've already had the class 20 slave unit, to run between a pair of 20's. haven't seen a 37-50 slave unit yet.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRailFanatic Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 One double-cab, 58-style Class 20! 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRailFanatic Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 And while I'm at it, have an 0-4-0 08 too! 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRailFanatic Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Here's a Class 06 Master-Slave unit. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaZagato Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Wouldn't whatever was going on in that raised hood still be going on with a calf? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2021 Yes, its the fuel tank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurenceb Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Move the fuel tank to where the cab was, to improve visability 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Besley Posted March 24, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2021 17 hours ago, ScottishRailFanatic said: One double-cab, 58-style Class 20! Doesn't one of the cab ends need turning round... 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNWR18901910 Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 17 hours ago, ScottishRailFanatic said: One double-cab, 58-style Class 20! That's the locomotive I attempted once! A BR Class 19, in fact. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barclay Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) Hi I built this road switcher style diesel from two old Tri-ang Dock Shunter bodies and a couple of simple scratchbuilt bogies. A bit of fun, but the Dock shunter is obviously based on a Bagnall design and Bagnall (with Brush) did build some bogie diesels so not impossible I like to think... Apologies as I have already posted in Corbs' 'show us your Pugbashes etc.' thread but it seemed to fit the bill here too! Edited November 2, 2022 by Barclay 11 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaZagato Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Still, excellent to see it again. Where would it fall in terms of power, do you think? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRailFanatic Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Barclay's excellent work (love it, well done!) inspired this. What if R&H went big and built a Bo-Bo? This is a possible BR-owned result. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted March 24, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Barclay said: Hi I built this road switcher style diesel from two old Tri-ang Dock Shunter bodies and a couple of simple scratchbuilt bogies. A bit of fun, but the Dock shunter is obviously based on a Bagnall design and Bagnall (with Brush) did build some bogie diesels so not impossible I like to think... Apologies as I have already posted in Corbs' 'show us your Pugbashes etc.' thread but it seemed to fit the bill here too! Nice, and very plausible. Would/could that have replaced either the class 13's at Wath, or 08's at many other locations, for shunting and trip work? If say it had 500hp, and a top speed of say 30-35 mph, it would be ok for short trips, but would it be overkill for station pilot duties? I wonder also what the maintenance cost of 2 x 4 wheel bogies is, compared to a rigid 6 wheel frame with con rods? Would it be more expensive & demanding from a maintenance point of view? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted March 24, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2021 58 minutes ago, ScottishRailFanatic said: Barclay's excellent work (love it, well done!) inspired this. What if R&H went big and built a Bo-Bo? This is a possible BR-owned result. You need a centre cab for that one, then the twin engines and radiators are one at each end; much better for weight distribution. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 24, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, John Besley said: Doesn't one of the cab ends need turning round... The cabs on the 20's always had the door on the right when viewed from the side. Perhaps stretching the length/wheelbase a bit would help. 1 hour ago, ScottishRailFanatic said: Barclay's excellent work (love it, well done!) inspired this. What if R&H went big and built a Bo-Bo? This is a possible BR-owned result. I was going to suggest a centre cab but Northmoor beat me to it. A model as such was built using a pair of Airfix 03's many years ago (50 years?) and was illustrated in the Airfix magazine. I was thinking of doing such a conversion but with a cab at each end and a higher (roof height) engine compartment. Edited March 24, 2021 by PhilJ W 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRailFanatic Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Great points from both of you, redesign on the way. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRailFanatic Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 You suggest, I deliver. Combining both points, a centre-cab with heightened engine compartments. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 24, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2021 I was thinking of a cab at each end with the radiators fitted at each end and a van body fitted between them. Similar in many respects to the Bermuda Railway No's 100/101. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRailFanatic Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Just now, PhilJ W said: I was thinking of a cab at each end with the radiators fitted at each end and a van body fitted between them. Similar in many respects to the Bermuda Railway No's 100/101. Ooooh! Lovely idea. I'll make a new one tomorrow, haven't the time at the moment. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf27 Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 5 hours ago, Barclay said: Hi I built this road switcher style diesel from two old Tri-ang Dock Shunter bodies and a couple of simple scratchbuilt bogies. A bit of fun, but the Dock shunter is obviously based on a Bagnall design and Bagnall (with Brush) did build some bogie diesels so not impossible I like to think... Apologies as I have already posted in Corbs' 'show us your Pugbashes etc.' thread but it seemed to fit the bill here too! This has an Alco RS-2 feel about it. cheers Shane 1 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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