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Imaginary Locomotives


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Not sure if I've created an abomination or not. Always enjoy playing around with 2-8-2s, realised I'd not actually done the obvious and rammed a Brit and a 9f together. Lord Nelson tender chassis just for giggles. Not convinced it looks quite right though. Have I missed something obvious?

 

2-8-2.jpg.97442fb6f0eda3d7177f0e580a38fcb3.jpg

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9 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

It was being dragged for the test.

 

Cheers

David

 The simple numerical indicated horsepower for steam locomotives at steady speed calculator functions quite well

.

The Tornado train did 45,4meter per second.

Train was 210m long including Tornado and 67

Train mass was 573 tons all inclusive.

 

Rolling takes                385kW

Disturbing air takes 1570kW

or 2650 indicated horsepower.

 

Maximum steady ihp for a V2 on test plant was 1990 ihp

A Britania gave2200 ihp on rollers and a LMS pacific 2550.

 

One can use more steam than max steady evaporation rate but pressure goes down fast.

Tornado did not run 101,6 mph for many minutes  so it is not unrealistic that Tornado ca do 2650 ihp for a short while.

The LMS calculated over 3200 ihp when they measured 2511 drawbar horsepower in a short burst.

The difference between drawbar horsepower and indicated was asumed to be machine friction,locomotive rolling resistance and locomotive air resistance.

I find it more simple to se most of it as total train air resistance.

Indicated horsepower steam demand and boiler evaporation are simple to calculate.

 

This method can be used on electric or diesel trains  as well.

 

Total train length in m mutiplied by 0,13 (UK normal gauge)  0.15(Berne Gauge)  0.17(US) gives flat plate area in square meters

This shall be multipled by  0.5 *air density(1,23kg/m**3)*Velocity cubed and giv ve Watts for airwork.

Total train mass (kg)*gravity*0.0015*velocity gives rolling work in Watt

 

Edited by Niels
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13 hours ago, Niels said:

 

Damned.

My simple power model shot down in flames

But thank You for answering

 

I think your model is still valid. The 67 was only there because NR said so. It wasn't actually necessary for the test, apart from providing power to the Mark 2s.

 

Cheers
David

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Re: the Tornado test, I did an interview with Huw Parker who was on the train (link below) if you are interested, but if not then the TL;DL version: The 67 was only attached to the train in the Northbound direction and was removed at Newcastle when the train was turned around, before 100mph was hit in the southbound direction.

The 67 was there to assist with the turning move as it dragged the whole train backwards around a triangle before being uncoupled.

 

 

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Thank You Corbs for saving my day.

In the interview it is mentioned that a test report was made for the 101,6mph test.

Can that be had by  the public?

 

A new numerical model run

 

Total train length 190meter making 1420 kW heating of air

Total train mass 485000kg making     347 kW  oil and rail heating

total demand on locomotive 2400 indicated horsepower.

 

We asume that an A1 can do 31410 lbs of steam per hour from 4260 lbs of coal showelled by two firemen.

This is the One hour figure from mr Cox/Britania.

A V2 used 13.2lbs  at best opperating condition and gives   2400 ihp on Tornado if it steams as well as a BR7.

The continious 3000lbs/h coal showelled by one unionized fireman makes 24000 lbs steam per hour or ca1800 indicated horsepower.

A drag plate area of 0.13squaremeter per meter train and a rolling resistance coefficient 0f 0,0015 gives reasonable estimates of steam train speed possible.

Thank You for reading

 

Edited by Niels
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On 03/09/2019 at 09:12, Niels said:

Thank You Corbs for saving my day.

In the interview it is mentioned that a test report was made for the 101,6mph test.

Can that be had by  the public?

 

 

Hi Niels, I have asked Huw for you, I’ve not see the report though.

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On 03/09/2019 at 09:12, Niels said:

Thank You Corbs for saving my day.

In the interview it is mentioned that a test report was made for the 101,6mph test.

Can that be had by  the public?

 

 

Hi Niels, I have asked Huw for you, I’ve not see the report though.

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40 minutes ago, Corbs said:

 

Hi Niels, I have asked Huw for you, I’ve not see the report though.

Hello Corbs

 

Thank You for asking.

If it give some figures and analyses like the old BR steam test reports it will be very interesting for an old steam dreamer.

I hope it is not considered confidential but can easily understand and accept  if it is.

 

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came across these while searching for something else, 1:87 scale loco kits by Oriental models

 

"Saddle tank" that isnt a saddle tank, looks like the cab of a pug and the chassis of a kitson dock tank

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/oriental-model-0-4-0-saddle-tank--179829

 

179829-12155-pristine.jpg

 

second a diesel vaguely like a drewry, and no i have no idea whats going on with the coupling rods

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/oriental-model-diesel-locomotive--179828

 

179828-12155-pristine.jpg

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The tank looks distinctly like a Japanese locomotive, down to the brass-reverse number plate on the smokebox door.   As an English application, could call it an import well tank by a Japanese builder.   I think Yamaha was making locomotives in the steam era, but I am likely wrong.

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3 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

The tank looks distinctly like a Japanese locomotive, down to the brass-reverse number plate on the smokebox door.   As an English application, could call it an import well tank by a Japanese builder.   I think Yamaha was making locomotives in the steam era, but I am likely wrong.

Looks like the Airfix Drewry shunter

I know they did the Pug which is what I presume the first is intended to be. it has the right number!

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3 hours ago, sir douglas said:

came across these while searching for something else, 1:87 scale loco kits by Oriental models

 

"Saddle tank" that isnt a saddle tank, looks like the cab of a pug and the chassis of a kitson dock tank

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/oriental-model-0-4-0-saddle-tank--179829

 

179829-12155-pristine.jpg

 

second a diesel vaguely like a drewry, and no i have no idea whats going on with the coupling rods

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/oriental-model-diesel-locomotive--179828

 

179828-12155-pristine.jpg

The steam locomotive appears to have a tender, and a BR totem on the boiler.

6 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I wonder what track gauge they models are?

Japan is generally 3' 6" apart from Shinkansen

It says HO so I assume that they are 16.5 mm gauge. I wonder if these kits are obtainable today.

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4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

They're described as HO gauge, so presumably the models are 16.5 mm gauge.

 

But do you actually think what's in the box looks any different to the Airfix (now Dapol) L&Y pug and Drewry shunter?

In japan that would be 1:80 which would mean the track is closer to the 3' 6" gauge than if it was 1:87

 

Actually I would bet they are Airfix models with fantasy pictures on the box.

Edited by melmerby
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5 minutes ago, melmerby said:

In japan that would be 1:80 which would mean the track is closer to the 3' 6" gauge than if it was 1:87

 

Actually I would bet they are Airfix models with fantasy pictures on the box.

Or copies with enough alterations to get past copyright laws.

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1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Looks like the Airfix Drewry shunter

I know they did the Pug which is what I presume the first is intended to be. it has the right number!

 

Following the links, it’s quite clear that the box contents are the Airfix L&Y “pug” and the box art is just a local re-vamp of the Airfix art by an artist who had no understanding of the subject. 

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11 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

 

Following the links, it’s quite clear that the box contents are the Airfix L&Y “pug” and the box art is just a local re-vamp of the Airfix art by an artist who had no understanding of the subject. 

Or how the artist drew the models he made. 

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30 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Or how the artist drew the models he made. 

 

Ref the account of the Rev Awdry’s opinion of the original illustrations of Percy, in particular. Thomas also bears little resemblance to the Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0T from which the iconic red and blue livery derives, and which could almost have been seen “in the metal” from Awdry’s windows...

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Hi Folks,

 

Here are the BR Non Standards for your amusement:

 

DSCF0818.JPG.b36261ddf4f12531d7b57cb0c5eb9313.JPGBR Non Standard class 5 2-6-2 fast goods engine.

 

DSCF0817.JPG.2f56578f4387ca459a159ed62348187a.JPG

BR Non Standard hump shunter/banking engine with articulated booster fitted bunker.

 

DSCF0819.JPG.89043a8d0a26d43f06ad8a2b9fff6104.JPG

BR Non Standard 2-8-2-2-8-2 Garrett heavy goods engine.

 

DSCF0816.JPG.b8c1d7eeab207591957755d7c6cf63ad.JPG

BR Non Standard Paget/Caprotti bogied Leader style cuntraption !

 

The valve gear would be Caprotti to ease valve gear trouble and I envisage six cylinders per bogie, two driving each axle at 120* crank offsets giving a total of six power pulses per revolution of the wheels all connected by Bulleid style Morse hi-vol chains to reduce reciprocating mass. I shall do a drawing of the cylinder layout later this week.

The cab is centrally placed and more akin to a conventional locomotive unlike Bulleid's Leader and so may be a slight more popular with loco crews.

 

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/paget/paget.htm

 

Gibbo.

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21 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

Here are the BR Non Standards for your amusement:

 

BR Non Standard class 5 2-6-2 fast goods engine.

BR Non Standard hump shunter/banking engine with articulated booster fitted bunker.

BR Non Standard 2-8-2-2-8-2 Garrett heavy goods engine.

BR Non Standard Paget/Caprotti bogied Leader style cuntraption !

 

Gibbo.

Do Dapol have you on a regular delivery schedule?

You must be really helping their cash flow!:yes:

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5 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Do Dapol have you on a regular delivery schedule?

You must be really helping their cash flow!:yes:

Hi Keith,

 

It certainly  does look that way !

 

They are such fun to chop about though and not too expensive, I had thought of a class 4 double Fairlie and then decided against the idea. I might see what I can do with the Schools class and also the city of Truro and Prairie tank amalgamations. There is always a class 4 BR Non Standard 4-4-0 to be considered.

 

Gibbo.

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