Mk1 BSO.T Scotrail branding question.

[w124bob]

I've come across this picture of a Mk1 BSO'T conversion which differs from others, as can be seen it carry's Buffet and Scotrail bodyside branding and the red stripe extends further than mormal . So does any know the carriage ID and even better have a picture of the other side.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/101242744@N07/23641492139/in/faves-28630680@N06/

 

[60021 Pen-y-Ghent]

I have 2 photos showing both sides of a BSOT at Kyle of Localsh. Unfortunately not the one you are interested in as it doesn't have the Scotrail sticker. However the red lining covers 3 window bays on both sides. I can't find my notebook from the time at the moment but from memory it was either Sc9000 or Sc9004. Not much use I'm afraid but might be of interest. When I've got time I'll scan the photos and post them if you wish.

[Flood]

It's got BR1 bogies so it can only be one of 9000, 9001, 9015 or 9016. It's not 9016 because of this photo:

 

Note the scallop roof vents whereas the other photo has ridge.

1 hour ago, 60021 Pen-y-Ghent said:

I have 2 photos showing both sides of a BSOT at Kyle of Localsh. Unfortunately not the one you are interested in as it doesn't have the Scotrail sticker. However the red lining covers 3 window bays on both sides. I can't find my notebook from the time at the moment but from memory it was either Sc9000 or Sc9004. Not much use I'm afraid but might be of interest. When I've got time I'll scan the photos and post them if you wish.

It depends when you took the photo. Scotrail was first applied in 1984 but quickly superseded by ScotRail so if you took the photo before 1985 it could well be the same coach.

[Flood]

Looking at this photo I doubt it is 9001 either. So that leaves 9000 or 9015 (after 60021's comments I'm erring towards 9000).

 

and I reckon that this is another photo of the mystery coach:

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Flood

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

I came across this photo some time ago and kept it as this is one of the coaches I want to model.

 

Having asked in other places it could not be identified positively, but, as Flood says - it is likely to be 9000.

 

Thanks

Phil H

[60021 Pen-y-Ghent]

OK, so I've found my notebook. I took the photos in September 1981 and noted the coach as Sc9000, formerly 9276 though goodness knows how I knew that - probably a Platform 5 booklet. Hope that helps solve the puzzle.

[keefer]

Just shows the importance of working to photos!

If modelling a BSOT I'd have put the red strip as far as the first bay and the only branding would've been on a board in the window. I've also seen a pic of one that had the red strip over the first two bays.

However, I was unaware of this coach having such a long strip and bodyside branding.

All good stuff for the memory banks.

[w124bob]

Thats perfect, just what I was looking for. All I've got to do know is convert(and buy) the Hornby BSO .

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, w124bob said:

Thats perfect, just what I was looking for. All I've got to do know is convert(and buy) the Hornby BSO .

Isn’t it a converted BCK?

[w124bob]

8 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Isn’t it a converted BCK?

No it's definatley an ex BSO as were all the MK1 micro buffet conversions , Hornby R4777 for a BSO T with br1 bogies. If you want a BSO T with commonwealth bogie you can do a bogie swap from either the CK R4772 or SK R4773 or TSO R4776 or FO R4778. 

[young37215]

9000 is still alive and well today on the GWSR. The buffet is no longer in use but the counter remains in situ.

 

[w124bob]

The conversion is all but done, waiting on "Buffet" transfer for the bodyside. Found this little gallery on flickr which also shows 9001 carried the red stripe across three windows aswell. It's an easy conversion, remove the two seats on the non counter side, I left the centre floor intact to keep the interior in one piece and used the seats on the counter side to support a galley counter and partion. A strip of plasticard is cut to cover the window behind tha counter, then I painted all remaining seats dark blue with dark gray sides . Table tops were also painted but only after I'd put everything back together did I realise I'd painted the tables wrong, I'd used light gray when in BR days they would almost black. It was the alloy edging stip making the tables appear gray. A Bachman MK2(vac braked) has also been done.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151135632@N04/galleries/72157685209958073/

Redcstripe on both models came from a Microscale Union Pacific set as it was handy!

Clearly SC9001 appears to have carried two variations in it's lifetime, l assume the Cowlairs shot in the gallery is ex works straight after the conversion.

Edited October 26, 2019 by w124bob
New photo coment

[young37215]

The link below takes you to a gallery of SCR albums, one of which contains a dozen BSOT pictures.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/190808970@N06/galleries

 

[young37215]

The link to my WHL line thread before connects to a post with a picture of the buffet counter of a BSOT and diagrams of the internal changes to the original BSO from page 148 of Parkin's book BR Mark 1 Coaches 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by young37215

[young37215]

Internal pictures of the micro buffet counter and surrounding area in 9000. These appear to be the same as Parkin's book indicates and as far as I can discern, the fittings have not been changed whilst 9000 has been on the GWSR although the window has been opened up to its original condition once again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by young37215

[billywhizz]

They are great reference photos, thank you for adding them to the thread!

Cheers. 
Bill. 

[keefer]

Very wooden! I always associate the Trolley conversions with lots of white/pale plastic laminates.

[young37215]

16 hours ago, keefer said:

Very wooden! I always associate the Trolley conversions with lots of white/pale plastic laminates.

 

Agreed as shown in the picture in Parkin on page 148. What I meant was the actual structure looks unchanged albeit having been clad in wooden panel and stained. 

 

 

[SC55015]

Here is the side opposite the counter that might have details of interest to some (ignore the much younger me).

It's a WHL service in 1986 and this one has a lot less wood with formica panelling on walls, partition and sliding door. Note also the end vestibule has been painted yellow.

 

Maxpax coffee anyone?

[SC55015]

Here is another interior I found, again a plastic one. This time it's a far north BSOT in 1987 - the buffet was not manned so we've taken it over for our own food preparation purposes.

The cash drawer on the buffet trolleys pulled out of the end and so a cash drawer was fitted into the counter to use instead. Note also the alloy plate on the door into the former toilet at counter height, this was to avoid damage to the wooden door when the trolleys were moved in and out.

The former toilets - as far as I can remember - still had the sink, but the toilet was removed and shelves were fitted. A trolley would just fit inside diagonally allowing it to be locked inside (or the red baskets could be lifted off and placed inside).

 

Edit: I think this could be a Mk2? No window on the door to the vesibule and different window frame.

Edited August 26, 2023 by SC55015
Note Re. Mk2 added

[young37215]

Resurrecting this old thread given an ongoing discussion regarding the work required to convert a Hornby Mk1 BSO to a BSOT. By way of background to which I sure others can add/correct me, the micro buffet programme of the early 1980's was as a consequence of pressures on the then BR to cut costs. It seems like little has changed in 40 plus years! 18 Mk1 BSO's were converted, as at the time of typing 8 of these still exist in preservation spread far and wide around the country.

 

On their creation 10 Scottish region BSOT's were deployed on the West Highland lines where they replaced the full buffets that were considered uneconomic. I was under the impression that BSOT's were also diagrammed on Far North line but Platform 5 Coaching Stock Book from 1982 lists all 10 as allocated to Glasgow Cowlairs depot. 

 

9000, 9001, 9015, 9016 all fitted with BR1 bogies (as is the Hornby model)

9002, 9003, 9005, 9006, 9007, 9008 all fitted with Commonwealth bogies (Hornby model bogies are easily changed)

 

Whilst there was a formal plan for the BSOT conversion, the practical application of the conversion work was undertaken in a largely uncontrolled fashion resulting in most vehicles being unique.  Some information relating to the conversions and pictures can be found in Parkin (p148) and Longworth's more recent book (p83). The work was shared between Sheffield Darnall and Glasgow Cowlairs carriage depots. As has been stated before and more than most for a BSOT, it makes a lot of sense to find a picture or two of your chosen conversion to use as a source of reference. 

 

 

Railtec make a range of useful transfers, notably their 00 gauge references 3025 ' MK1Buffet brandings, strips and numbers' 

 

https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=11117

 

There are a limited number of pictures on Flickr, the following two galleries are the best I have found

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/190808970@N06/galleries/72157716639194312/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/151135632@N04/galleries/72157685209958073/

 

 

If you have any information to add then please do so, I feel sure that there is more detail in the public domain than I have managed to find. Hopefully between RMWeb members we can create a definitive record of the Mk1 BSOT and a gallery of how the Hornby Mk 1 BSO can be converted to represent these iconic Scottish coaches. 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by young37215
Update in light of new information

[young37215]

Having spent some time thinking about the BSOT conversion I decided to make a start on my new acquisition. Some good news to start, the coach has been lightly weathered and the steps on the coach ends removed just as I like. My first step in the conversion was to seperate the various parts that make up the BSO.

 

Step 1, remove the bogies. These slot into the chassis and lever out quite easily with modest pressure applied using a penknife. The bogies are BR1's which are perfect for my plan to start my BSOT fleet by creating SC9000.

 

 

 

Step 2, body seperation from the chassis. The body is a one part affair held in place by 6 clips, one in each of the 4 cormers on the inside of the bodyshell, as can be seen above and 1 located centrally on each side. Be warned, these break very easily and the central clips may be glued in place! Using a knife, ease the body away from the chassis so that slivers of plasticard or similar can be inserted to enable the body to be removed. When all 4 are in place it should come away from the chassis very easily. 

 

 

Step 3, seperate the chassis and coach detail molded plastic. This reveals the area for seat removal, the first seating bays on both sides of the coach. At first glance this could be fiddly because there is quite a lot of mold to cut away and the area includes the hole through which the bogies attach to the chassis. The molded detail will need careful cutting to not compromise the structure. With the coach now in pieces I stopped to consider how I might go about this. 

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by young37215
Updated information on clips that secure the bodyshell to the chassis

[young37215]

Next up was the removal of the existing coach numbers. As has been noted previously, the Hornby paint is very thin and usually comes away during the number removal process. I started by using HMG thinners to remove the first number, as expected the paint also came away. 

 

 

 

 

For the other side I used Tcut, this removed less of the paint although some loss was still evident.

 

 

The Hornby BR Blue colour is darker than what I consider normal. To cover over the bare areas I mixed a tiny amount of Railmatch enamel Rail Blue with Railmatch Weathered Black and thinned the result by about 50%. A few seconds touching up and the bare area is largely covered. I'll wait to see how this drys but it already looks reasonable and I suspect that the application of new numbers will disguise most the touched up paint area.

 

   

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by young37215

[young37215]

I did'nt go any further yesterday, the work involved chopping the seats out of the plastic mold intimidates me because I am concerned that I will damage the structural integrity of it. I am hoping that there are some pictures available showing how others have gone about this that I can take confidence from.

 

I checked the back back gauge on the BSO bogies and like with my other BSO's, these were very tight and need easing out. Something to watch out for if you have a Hornby BSO. The BSO bogies are BR1's which covers 4 options for BSOT conversion. I have several BSO's and want to model one or more of the Commonwealth bogie fitted ones to increase my choices. It appears that Hornby do not sell their bogies as a separate item and I could not find any on Ebay. Any suggestions? I would do a BR1 swap for Commonwealth if anyone wants an exchange.   

 

Whilst wandering through Flickr I did find a number of BSOT pictures on the Far North which seems to validate my view that these were in regular service use. The SCR had 10 BSOT's with 5 WHL coaching stock diagrams and another 5 on the Far North. Assuming 100% availability was never a great basis for operating, presumably there were certain trains that did not have catering; the Kyle line is an obvious one to check. If I get around to it I will look in the carriage workings and public timetables to see if anything springs out. 

 

Inverness 1983 

 

 

Dingwall steam heat era

 

 

Dingwall 1984   

 

 

[billywhizz]

Hi Rob. If it helps, this is the work I did on a Airfix MK2D interior to convert it to a TSO(T) 

Maybe worth trying Peters Spares for replacement Commonwealth bogies?

hoping to make a start on my BSO(T) conversions soon. 

Cheers

Bill.