Clerestory coaches

[RedGemAlchemist]

4 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

 

 

That really is laughable in 2019 - I remember being underwhelmed by the Dean Single when I was a pre-teen, and I'm now some sixty years older !!

 

I'm only glad that I have no use for such a caricature - even Rule 1 would be stretching credibility to breaking-point.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Still love it personally. I might even buy one to turn into a freelance single. 

[PatB]

And yet, if you want a recognisably pre-WW1 GWR locomotive, r-t-r, Hornby's caricatures remain pretty much the only game in town apart from City of Truro. 

 

A wider range to modern standards would be great, but noone seems to be falling over themselves to stump up the capital needed to provide one. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by PatB

[GWR-fan]

I also enjoy the Dean single.  A simple mod is to shorten the distance between the cab and the tender and also a basic representation of chassis extensions above the pilot bogie.  For such a basic model it is ironic that after full fat prices for several years the model has been "downgraded" to Railroad "specs" and yet still commands almost full fat pricing.

[Compound2632]

The single biggest problem with the Hornby Achilles class model is that it preserves its Triang heritage in the form of its 16 mm-above-rail-height buffer centres, with the consequent distortion of things below the platform to accommodate that extra 2 mm - notably the tender frames. There have been some heroic conversions documented on here:

 

 

[KDG]

Apologies slightly OT

 

Is that drawing above by J N Maskelyne the Jasper Maskelyne, stage magician and WW2 deception and camouflage officer, or another J Maskelyne?

[Compound2632]

@KDG, his brother!

[KDG]

25 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

@KDG, his brother!

Thanks Stephen

[LNWR18901910]

I am currently working on a 1960s Triang-Hornby style LNWR George the Fifth Class model using the old GEM kit and the Triang L1 Chassis as required. It did get me thinking about the right rolling stock for it to haul. I was thinking of using Triang Clerestory Coaches (composite and brake) painted in the LNWR colours as to reflect the time that the models would have been produced in that period during and after the Triang-Hornby takeover/rebranding. What do you all think? Would I have to modify the rooftops as well?

[Steamport Southport]

11 minutes ago, LNWR18901910 said:

I am currently working on a 1960s Triang-Hornby style LNWR George the Fifth Class model using the old GEM kit and the Triang L1 Chassis as required. It did get me thinking about the right rolling stock for it to haul. I was thinking of using Triang Clerestory Coaches (composite and brake) painted in the LNWR colours as to reflect the time that the models would have been produced in that period during and after the Triang-Hornby takeover/rebranding. What do you all think? Would I have to modify the rooftops as well?

 

The LNWR had nothing that looked remotely like these. 

 

 

The old Ratio now Parkside kits are perfect if you can build kits. They aren't particularly hard kits. As you have mentioned painting them into LNWR, that's the hardest part IMO.

 

Linked to Hattons for convenience.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/493778/parkside_models_pc730_lnwr_50_arc_roof_third_class_coach_plastic_kit/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

Jason

[LNWR18901910]

8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The LNWR had nothing that looked remotely like these. 

 

 

The old Ratio now Parkside kits are perfect if you can build kits. They aren't particularly hard kits. As you have mentioned painting them into LNWR, that's the hardest part IMO.

 

Linked to Hattons for convenience.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/493778/parkside_models_pc730_lnwr_50_arc_roof_third_class_coach_plastic_kit/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

Jason

Well, I have had experience with those and they aren't all that easy to assemble and they don't come with instructions. Plus, getting them to run well is kind of an ordeal. The bogies they supply aren't that well made and probably wouldn't last very long. That's why I used Bachmann Maunsell Southern coach bogies and they fit the part quite nicely.

 

Triang never did have any LNWR coaches in their range so this is one of the things I am amending for as part of Hornby's Centenary Year.

[jcm@gwr]

You might be better trying to adapt/modify the Hornby Caledonian coaches.

 

[LNWR18901910]

6 minutes ago, jcm@gwr said:

You might be better trying to adapt/modify the Hornby Caledonian coaches.

 

Do you think I should? They weren't released until the period of the Tri-ang Hornby Era.

[jcm@gwr]

3 minutes ago, LNWR18901910 said:

Do you think I should? They weren't released until the period of the Tri-ang Hornby Era.

 

I wasn't thinking about period authenticity, more about the easiest route to achieve the most 

appropriate looking stock for the loco.

[LNWR18901910]

2 minutes ago, jcm@gwr said:

 

I wasn't thinking about period authenticity, more about the easiest route to achieve the most 

appropriate looking stock for the loco.

I just did my research on them and they were released around the time of the Triang-Hornby era, so I could go for them and give it a try.

[Compound2632]

The Bachman ex-Mainline LMS Period 1 brake third and composite are probably the nearest thing. They are functionally identical to LNWR 57 ft elliptical-roofed corridor carriages of 1911 onwards - number and layout of compartments - although the exterior styling is Midland. Plenty of Georges kept their black livery (often wartime unlined black) well into the 1920s, by which time the Period 1 stock would be on the best expresses anyway. The Mainline carriages could often be got at bargain prices on second hand stalls, pre-Covid, so ringing around a few second-hand dealers you could probably get some. Better than nearly £50 for new Gordon express coaches!

Edited September 24, 2020 by Compound2632

[LNWR18901910]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The Bachman ex-Mainline LMS Period 1 brake third and composite are probably the nearest thing. They are functionally identical to LNWR 57 ft elliptical-roofed corridor carriages of 1911 onwards - number and layout of compartments - although the exterior styling is Midland. Plenty of Georges kept their black livery (often wartime unlined black) well into the 1920s, by which time the Period 1 stock would be on the best expresses anyway. The Mainline carriages could often be got at bargain prices on second hand stalls, pre-Covid, so ringing around a few second-hand dealers you could probably get some. Better than nearly £50 for new Gordon express coaches!

I could try those, good thinking.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

11 hours ago, LNWR18901910 said:

I just did my research on them and they were released around the time of the Triang-Hornby era, so I could go for them and give it a try.

The Caledonian Single was new in the 1963 catalogue,and the coaches were also released around then, certainly sold in Tri-ang Railways window boxes.

 

Tri-ang Hornby was formed in 1965.....

 

 

[The Johnster]

Imagine the effect a Dean Single to modern RTR standards would have, with lined out scale length clerestories to go with it.  It might even generate enough interest for a retooled 2721 to similar standards; now that is something I would definitely be up for!

[Coach bogie]

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Imagine the effect a Dean Single to modern RTR standards would have, with lined out scale length clerestories to go with it.  It might even generate enough interest for a retooled 2721 to similar standards; now that is something I would definitely be up for!

But will market accept a rtr coach priced AT £60-70 with only two or three diagrams manufactured with a Dean single approaching £200?

 

That is why I make mine, to the get the variety (at least 73 different clerestory compo diagrams).

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Coach bogie said:

But will market accept a rtr coach priced AT £60-70 with only two or three diagrams manufactured 

 

It has accepted that in the case of the SECR Birdcages although admittedly the diagrams produced are sufficient to make up a standard set train. 

 

The LMS was kind to RTR manufacturers with its BTK/CK/CK/BTK inter-district sets; I believe these originated with the LNWR. 

[Aire Head]

On 25/09/2020 at 10:04, Compound2632 said:

 

The LMS was kind to RTR manufacturers with its BTK/CK/CK/BTK inter-district sets; I believe these originated with the LNWR. 

 

Which is why it's frustrating that Hornby don't make a composite 

[Flying Pig]

3 hours ago, Aire Head said:

 

Which is why it's frustrating that Hornby don't make a composite 

 

There must be thousands of Mainline/Bachmann Period I composites sloshing around the second hand markets and the prototypes ran well into the BR era.  Very nice models too, particularly the later ones with metal wheels.

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

There must be thousands of Mainline/Bachmann Period I composites sloshing around the second hand markets and the prototypes ran well into the BR era.  Very nice models too, particularly the later ones with metal wheels.

 

Slightly annoyingly from that perspective, the inter-district sets tended to use more modern CKs than BTKs - so one will see a couple of the LMS Period 1 CKs flanked by ex-LNWR 57ft elliptical-roofed BTKs.

 

The real frustration with the Mainline Period 1 carriages was the lack of an all third, though I gather things can be done using the third class end of a composite, the passenger end of a third brake, a hacksaw, and a steady hand.

[Aire Head]

25 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

There must be thousands of Mainline/Bachmann Period I composites sloshing around the second hand markets and the prototypes ran well into the BR era.  Very nice models too, particularly the later ones with metal wheels.

 

I've got a few of the Period 1s but it nice to have variety as the LMS and LMR don't seem to have cared much for matching stock in sets. In fact it almost appears like they went out of their way to avoid it!

 

17 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Slightly annoyingly from that perspective, the inter-district sets tended to use more modern CKs than BTKs - so one will see a couple of the LMS Period 1 CKs flanked by ex-LNWR 57ft elliptical-roofed BTKs.

 

The real frustration with the Mainline Period 1 carriages was the lack of an all third, though I gather things can be done using the third class end of a composite, the passenger end of a third brake, a hacksaw, and a steady hand.

 

That's worth a go I suppose I have a few spare 

[Flying Pig]

41 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

I've got a few of the Period 1s but it nice to have variety as the LMS and LMR don't seem to have cared much for matching stock in sets. In fact it almost appears like they went out of their way to avoid it!

 

Quite true and unsurprisingly not easy to represent using rtr stock only, the only rtr period III compo  as far as I know being the old Airfix model, which shows its age badly and tbh always had its issues. Hence the advent of Comet sides to stick on them, which I guess is still an option.

 

For completeness I went looking for LNWR elliptical roof stock and there appear to be kits in the 51L range.