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BARS, The End

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Given the lack of use at Okehampton this does not come as a surprise. 

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Simply appears to be Iowa Pacific leaving the UK market, perhaps a result of their other UK ventures not succeeding and so the UK operation wasn't large enough to keep dealing with given the distance from head office.

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Is it normal practice to list turnover rather than profit? For a potential buyer isn't the latter what matters?

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1 hour ago, brushman47544 said:

Is it normal practice to list turnover rather than profit? For a potential buyer isn't the latter what matters?

 

Potential buyer will sign an NDA and then be provided that information, the providing of turnover is less commercially sensitive and gives prospective buyers and idea of the size of the business prior to deciding on whether to go the NDA route.

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7 hours ago, mdvle said:

Simply appears to be Iowa Pacific leaving the UK market, perhaps a result of their other UK ventures not succeeding and so the UK operation wasn't large enough to keep dealing with given the distance from head office.

 

I wouldn't say it's IOWA Pacific leaving by choice. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that Iowa Pacific is now in receivership, and having the "dead ended" UK operations hasn't really helped them - Freight hasn't really taken off for the Weardale, nor has BARS original plan of using TnT 31s and Mk2s on an Okehampton to Exeter service. 

 

Hopefully we will now see both operations freed to allow preservation plans prosper, and in the case of Okehampton, some progress in getting the Okehampton branch of the Devon Metro up and running.  

 

 

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Somebody is going to need a fair bit of cash to sort out the Okehhampton operation and infrastructure and I can't see the CC wanting to get involved in buying the infrastructure.

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3 hours ago, surfsup said:

 

I wouldn't say it's IOWA Pacific leaving by choice. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that Iowa Pacific is now in receivership,

 

There is nothing online indicating Iowa Pacific is in receivership - 2 of the US based shortlines it owns were forced into receivership but that isn't the same thing.

 

3 hours ago, surfsup said:

and having the "dead ended" UK operations hasn't really helped them - Freight hasn't really taken off for the Weardale, nor has BARS original plan of using TnT 31s and Mk2s on an Okehampton to Exeter service. 

 

Hopefully we will now see both operations freed to allow preservation plans prosper, and in the case of Okehampton, some progress in getting the Okehampton branch of the Devon Metro up and running. 

 

I suspect the money simply isn't there for Okehampton regardless of who is running/owning it - see the Tavistock expansion plan also sitting around doing nothing do to a luck of funding.

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21 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

There is nothing online indicating Iowa Pacific is in receivership - 2 of the US based shortlines it owns were forced into receivership but that isn't the same thing.

 

 

I suspect the money simply isn't there for Okehampton regardless of who is running/owning it - see the Tavistock expansion plan also sitting around doing nothing do to a luck of funding.

If we are talking about 'state' funding in its various forms, including council level, I would have thought that Tavistock lies much nearer the top of Devon's wish list than Okehampton.  But Okehampton might win. if it costs less than Tavistock.    Unless Boris makes some rail reopening cash available for the south west I don't think we see any more chance of Tavistock occurring in the next 5-10 years than we have in the past 25 years and Okehampton might join it in that timescale if nobody bothers to take the route on. 

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I know it's been a while,  but my take on the funding for that, is that the developer of the housing estate adjacent to the new terminus in Tavistock is required to stump up a fair wedge of the money,  but as far as I'm aware, work has not yet started on that site yet.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

If we are talking about 'state' funding in its various forms, including council level, I would have thought that Tavistock lies much nearer the top of Devon's wish list than Okehampton.  But Okehampton might win. if it costs less than Tavistock.    Unless Boris makes some rail reopening cash available for the south west I don't think we see any more chance of Tavistock occurring in the next 5-10 years than we have in the past 25 years and Okehampton might join it in that timescale if nobody bothers to take the route on. 

 

 

I can think of some excellent "startup" trains coming to the market over the next few months.  Pity they aren't PRM'd, although GWR's 143s are pretty much like the one 144 which is semi PRM, so it is possible.  Maybe 230s would be a better bet though.

 

Anyway, back in the real world  

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4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

If we are talking about 'state' funding in its various forms, including council level, I would have thought that Tavistock lies much nearer the top of Devon's wish list than Okehampton. 

 

This article from September would seem to indicate the Tavistock extension is dead, with Devon not even asking for funding for it and the costs apparently up to £93m. Would be interesting to know how it got that expensive.

 

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/reopening-bere-alston-tavistock-railway-3311504

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On 06/01/2020 at 21:16, mdvle said:

 

There is nothing online indicating Iowa Pacific is in receivership - 2 of the US based shortlines it owns were forced into receivership but that isn't the same thing.

 

 

I suspect the money simply isn't there for Okehampton regardless of who is running/owning it - see the Tavistock expansion plan also sitting around doing nothing do to a luck of funding.

 

That's fair enough, the general consensus around the internet was that Iowa Pacific had ended up in Receivership. 

 

Regarding Okehampton, I believe this will be up and running within the next few years, once everyone's plans are agreed with and put into place. Okehampton will form part of the Devon Metro set up and Devon County Council is currently in the process of selecting the best option for the new Okehampton Parkway Station, which will be built on the outskirts of the town on land owned by DCC themselves. The possible snagging point at the moment is the issue regarding the track ownership, which is currently a slightly complicated set up involving Aggregate Industries as the owners, but is on a long term lease by BARS, with BARS being responsible for the track maintenance as far as Coleford Junction. Unfortunately, this is where another issue inlies - the Jacobs report has included a fairly detailed analysis into the condition of the trackbed between Okehampton and Coleford Junction, and while good proportion of the track is in good to fair condition, there is at least a stretch roughly 5 miles long of some concern where it is listed as poor - and with various TSRs. This they acknowledge is under the maintenance of BARS and while suitable for a heritage operation, may be a hinderance to a regular GWR service. They also acknowledge that the work required is rather out of the realms of the Dartmoor Railway and would require various items of plant and machinery to fix.  

 

It also wasn't that long ago that a certain, now probably forgotten transport minister; Mr Grayling was talking about the importance of adding the Okehampton Scheme into the Devon Metro. The next stage after that announcement was to task GWR & DCC into coming up with the aforementioned plan. 

 

What will be interesting to see though is what if anything the sale of the Dartmoor Railway may have on the councils plans, as Devon County Council has factored the Railway into the new Parkway designs, with a number of the designs including a bay platform (which personally I feel is rather unnecessary and adds to the cost of the re-opening). 

 

Either way, with a strong campaign group behind it, Okehampton is one project that unlike poor Tavistock, is likely to see fruition in my eyes.  

 

If you fancy a read of the Jacobs report, its here: 

 

https://devoncc.sharepoint.com/sites/PublicDocs/Highways/Roads/Forms/AllItems.aspx?id=%2Fsites%2FPublicDocs%2FHighways%2FRoads%2FTransport Planning%2FOkehampton Parkway Station Feasibility Study.pdf&parent=%2Fsites%2FPublicDocs%2FHighways%2FRoads%2FTransport Planning&p=true&originalPath=aHR0cHM6Ly9kZXZvbmNjLnNoYXJlcG9pbnQuY29tLzpiOi9zL1B1YmxpY0RvY3MvSGlnaHdheXMvRVJnTk9IMXo2LUZIcEt3Q3Z2VFptZ0VCN3RlTThSNWNtNDRJMURYNlQ5LW44QT9ydGltZT11RmttNk55VDEwZw

 

And here is OkeRail's website too. 

https://okerail.2day.uk

 

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, surfsup said:

 

That's fair enough, the general consensus around the internet was that Iowa Pacific had ended up in Receivership. 

 

Regarding Okehampton, I believe this will be up and running within the next few years, once everyone's plans are agreed with and put into place. Okehampton will form part of the Devon Metro set up and Devon County Council is currently in the process of selecting the best option for the new Okehampton Parkway Station, which will be built on the outskirts of the town on land owned by DCC themselves. The possible snagging point at the moment is the issue regarding the track ownership, which is currently a slightly complicated set up involving Aggregate Industries as the owners, but is on a long term lease by BARS, with BARS being responsible for the track maintenance as far as Coleford Junction. Unfortunately, this is where another issue inlies - the Jacobs report has included a fairly detailed analysis into the condition of the trackbed between Okehampton and Coleford Junction, and while good proportion of the track is in good to fair condition, there is at least a stretch roughly 5 miles long of some concern where it is listed as poor - and with various TSRs. This they acknowledge is under the maintenance of BARS and while suitable for a heritage operation, may be a hinderance to a regular GWR service. They also acknowledge that the work required is rather out of the realms of the Dartmoor Railway and would require various items of plant and machinery to fix.  

 

It also wasn't that long ago that a certain, now probably forgotten transport minister; Mr Grayling was talking about the importance of adding the Okehampton Scheme into the Devon Metro. The next stage after that announcement was to task GWR & DCC into coming up with the aforementioned plan. 

 

What will be interesting to see though is what if anything the sale of the Dartmoor Railway may have on the councils plans, as Devon County Council has factored the Railway into the new Parkway designs, with a number of the designs including a bay platform (which personally I feel is rather unnecessary and adds to the cost of the re-opening). 

 

Either way, with a strong campaign group behind it, Okehampton is one project that unlike poor Tavistock, is likely to see fruition in my eyes.  

 

If you fancy a read of the Jacobs report, its here: 

 

https://devoncc.sharepoint.com/sites/PublicDocs/Highways/Roads/Forms/AllItems.aspx?id=%2Fsites%2FPublicDocs%2FHighways%2FRoads%2FTransport Planning%2FOkehampton Parkway Station Feasibility Study.pdf&parent=%2Fsites%2FPublicDocs%2FHighways%2FRoads%2FTransport Planning&p=true&originalPath=aHR0cHM6Ly9kZXZvbmNjLnNoYXJlcG9pbnQuY29tLzpiOi9zL1B1YmxpY0RvY3MvSGlnaHdheXMvRVJnTk9IMXo2LUZIcEt3Q3Z2VFptZ0VCN3RlTThSNWNtNDRJMURYNlQ5LW44QT9ydGltZT11RmttNk55VDEwZw

 

And here is OkeRail's website too. 

https://okerail.2day.uk

 

 

 

 

 

Comes as no surprise (to me_ regarding the infrastructure and from what I've heard from my oppo who had a good look over it a couple of years back there's a lot more to it than a few miles of poor track.  Getting the infrastructure up to scratch for regular passenger operation at sensible speeds (and they will be commercially necessary) is not going to be cheap and the money will have to come from somewhere - quite a lot of it.  there will also be a signalling cost - not that you'll see much on the way of signals - which which definitely not come cheap once you take account of design and  various validation procedures for safe operation.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, surfsup said:

 

That's fair enough, the general consensus around the internet was that Iowa Pacific had ended up in Receivership.

 

Personally, I prefer facts and in this case there are no verifiable stories to agree with that.  All of the proper news stories indicate that 2 subsidiary railroads have been put into receivership but nothing about Iowa Pacific - and as Iowa Pacific is a holding company it is likely well insulated legally from any problems with its subsidiarys.

 

Quote

Regarding Okehampton, I believe this will be up and running within the next few years, once everyone's plans are agreed with and put into place.

 

Hope I'm wrong, but having read that report I suspect finding the extensive amount of money required will be a problem.

 

Quote

Unfortunately, this is where another issue inlies - the Jacobs report has included a fairly detailed analysis into the condition of the trackbed

 

No it didn't.

 

To quote from the report:

 

"a high level assessment of the wider private railway line." (section 1.5, p 8)

 

and

 

"extended to include a basic track quality survery" (section 8.0, p 32)

"survey was a visual survey only, conducted by a mixture of walking and cab riding and therefore has its limitations" (section 8.1, p 32)

 

Or about structures:

 

"were observed, from track level only, on the site visit"  "varied from reasonable to very poor"  "two or there structure being of particular concern" (section 8.2, p 35)

 

Quote

between Okehampton and Coleford Junction, and while good proportion of the track is in good to fair condition,

 

You omitted a rather significant caveat to that statement:

 

"Based upon this visual survey of 15 miles 1ch of track, 10 miles would be described as in reasonable condition for its current use" (Conclusions, p 35)

 

In other words, the track generally unacceptable for mainline passenger purposes - and they came to this conclusion with a very superficial visual site speed through.  And that is for the "good" section of track, never mind the 5 miles of bad track that you mentioned.

 

Quote

It also wasn't that long ago that a certain, now probably forgotten transport minister; Mr Grayling was talking about the importance of adding the Okehampton Scheme into the Devon Metro.

 

Not forgotten, just most of us long realized given his general incompetence in every position he held that you couldn't believe anything he said.

 

Quote

 

What will be interesting to see though is what if anything the sale of the Dartmoor Railway may have on the councils plans, as Devon County Council has factored the Railway into the new Parkway designs, with a number of the designs including a bay platform (which personally I feel is rather unnecessary and adds to the cost of the re-opening). 

 

1) the bay platform is essential if the Dartmoor Railway is to continue, as it is the only way for GWR and Dartmoor Railway to share the infrastructure.

 

2) the additional cost (roughly £1m) will simply be a minor footnote is the total cost of bringing the line up to acceptable standards for regular mainline passenger service - given all the unknowns that the Jacobs report dances around the numbers they give for anything other than the station and car park should be considered with an extreme dose of skepticism.

 

So sorry, I agree with Stationmaster, this project is going to require a significant sum of money and finding a source for that money is going to be extremely difficult.

 

Quote

 

Link doesn't work, gives a login page given that Devon CC is provided some sort of authentication to their Sharepoint service.  Instead it can be found from the main Devon CC transport page

 

https://www.devon.gov.uk/roadsandtransport/traffic-information/transport-planning/

Edited by mdvle
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