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Hornby Announce a Re-tooled Class 91 for 2020

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3 hours ago, shunny said:

 

I have no doubt Hornby can make a great looking 91 but the Bachmann 90 has shown what is possible and I will still order one but I would have  preferred the cavalex with all the extras. 

Hornby's 87 looked nice on the outside, but inside was not so good.

Their own decoder was too big to fit in the space they engineered for it, so this was a bit of a shot in the foot. They also left nowhere for a speaker. Speaker location was marked on the back of the PCB but there was insufficient space to actually fit anything.

By comparison, Bachmann's earlier 85 was a simple plug-in decoder fitment & a speaker mount point was included. It was just a matter of fitting one. This was a basic speaker but this was perfectly suitable for class 85 sounds.

Bachmann's 90 was a step forward. The speaker was already included so it was just a matter of fitting a decoder, for which there was sufficient space.

A working pan & fully DCC switchable lighting features were a step forward.

 

It would be disappointing if Hornby's 91 shared the same internal design as the 87.

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4 hours ago, shunny said:

A few points here, firstly the operation area should increase soon with planned train from Stirling to London via west coast using class 91s and Mk4 and 67s for Wales so there will be future liveries etc hopefully could make new Mk4 more viable

Secondly the 8 pin socket I would argue is a bigger issue for modern image modellers who tend to use far more Dcc functions and high end decoders many feel Hornby don't understand the market truly most of the competition are using 21 or 22 pin decoders fully separate lighting options.

Finally Hornby have a tendacy with modern liveries to have a bit of a it's close enough attitude an example being the caledonian sleeper teal which is a blue and nothing like the real thing but even after being advised the 67 was the wrong colour still used it for the class 92!

 

I have no doubt Hornby can make a great looking 91 but the Bachmann 90 has shown what is possible and I will still order one but I would have  preferred the cavalex with all the extras. 

 

Sorry if its already been mentioned, but theres soon the Grand Central to Blackpool with 91's and Mk4's too.  Plus who could resist a Class 91 in Europheonix   or 2?

 

Regards,

 

C

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Just now, dogbox321 said:

 

Sorry if its already been mentioned, but theres soon the Grand Central to Blackpool with 91's and Mk4's too.  Plus who could resist a Class 91 in Europheonix   or 2?

 

Regards,

 

C

There has been talk of those services being handled by class 90s with Mk4s.

Apparently these have better acceleration, the WCML crews already have knowledge of them & the higher top speed of the 91s cannot be used on the WCML.

I don't think it has been finalised yet.

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30 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

There has been talk of those services being handled by class 90s with Mk4s.

Apparently these have better acceleration, the WCML crews already have knowledge of them & the higher top speed of the 91s cannot be used on the WCML.

I don't think it has been finalised yet.

 

I were talking to a former colleague who works for Arriva GC the other day......  But like you say everything changes, and often will.  Until it happens....  For the CL 91's after LNER finish with them, very few places can use them to their full potential, but Blackpool to London with 2 intermediate stops will give them as good a run as anywhere I would have thought.

 

Regards,

 

C.

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1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Hornby's 87 looked nice on the outside, but inside was not so good.

Their own decoder was too big to fit in the space they engineered for it, so this was a bit of a shot in the foot. They also left nowhere for a speaker. Speaker location was marked on the back of the PCB but there was insufficient space to actually fit anything.

By comparison, Bachmann's earlier 85 was a simple plug-in decoder fitment & a speaker mount point was included. It was just a matter of fitting one. This was a basic speaker but this was perfectly suitable for class 85 sounds.

Bachmann's 90 was a step forward. The speaker was already included so it was just a matter of fitting a decoder, for which there was sufficient space.

A working pan & fully DCC switchable lighting features were a step forward.

 

It would be disappointing if Hornby's 91 shared the same internal design as the 87.

I’m not convinced about pre fitted speakers. I don’t want to pay for something I’m not going to use

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43 minutes ago, scumcat said:

I’m not convinced about pre fitted speakers. I don’t want to pay for something I’m not going to use

I can see the point in something like the 009 Baldwin where it’s in a different part of the body to where you put the decoder in but if you’re taking the body shell off anyway it seems a bit wasteful. 
In some of my Tillig HOm locos it sits beneath the circuit board which when screwed back down seals it over the sound box and makes the contacts. Neat bit of thinking, taking moments to install and no soldering of delicate contacts. 

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18 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I can see the point in something like the 009 Baldwin where it’s in a different part of the body to where you put the decoder in but if you’re taking the body shell off anyway it seems a bit wasteful. 
 

I agree, but I have no idea where Bachmann put the speaker in their class 90. It is certainly not on the same board as the decoder & it not visible with the roof off. The model would need to be dismantled further to find it.

The decoder fits under the roof panel, which is fairly easy to remove. Being a 21 pin type, it is just a flat board with a socket.

The speaker which the 85 is designed to accept is a cheap model, but the class does not produce a deep sound like you need from a diesel or steam loco: it has a variety of whirring & humming sounds. I doubt the 90 has an expensive speaker either, but it doesn't sound like it needs upgrading.

 

The point is if Bachmann can include fully switchable lighting, a working pantograph & a speaker, why can't Hornby?

 

Hornby fell behind in the 70s/80s: Lima arrived, producing Mk3s which were the correct length, 37s with 37 bogies (not the 31 then 47 which Hornby stuck with), HST power cars with light clusters which actually fit properly, locos heavy enough to pull trains.

Hornby worked hard to catch up in the late 90s & 2000s but do they now want to slip back & let history repeat itself?

Bachmann & Hattons have pushed have all pushed the standard up. Accurascale & Cavalex are looking to join them. Heljan look like they will join them with their class 86.

The hobby is a better place with a good Hornby striving to be a market leader, not the one from the 80s who were content to let others get ahead. If they do release the 91 with an 8 pin socket as previewed, they will be doing just that.

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2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

The point is if Bachmann can include fully switchable lighting, a working pantograph & a speaker, why can't Hornby?

 

Presumably they estimate that the extra time and money involved in providing those features would not generate sufficient extra profit, they are a business after all. Whether that's the correct decision or not is difficult to call but hey, it's their money (sort of) 

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I think I will be getting the Intercity model as it looks nice. Same in regards the VTEC and the "For the Fallen" models. The GNER and the LNER models don't interest me much but the VTEC interests me as it was the last livery I saw on the locomotive before I left England in 2017. Never got to see LNER in the flesh and I dislike GNER for reasons I will not share publicly. Therefore I will only buy three Class 91's :).

 

As for the Mk4's. I think Hornby will do them next year because to be honest. It would be silly for Hornby to not make the carriages and DVT and only do the locomotive. Cavelex on the other hand should still consider proceeding on with their models. Why? Because it gives the consumer a choice - that's why ;).

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14 hours ago, BritishRail60062 said:

I think I will be getting the Intercity model as it looks nice. Same in regards the VTEC and the "For the Fallen" models. The GNER and the LNER models don't interest me much but the VTEC interests me as it was the last livery I saw on the locomotive before I left England in 2017. Never got to see LNER in the flesh and I dislike GNER for reasons I will not share publicly. Therefore I will only buy three Class 91's :).

 

As for the Mk4's. I think Hornby will do them next year because to be honest. It would be silly for Hornby to not make the carriages and DVT and only do the locomotive. Cavelex on the other hand should still consider proceeding on with their models. Why? Because it gives the consumer a choice - that's why ;).


I've gone for an IC one and the VTEC "For the Fallen".... let's hope some coaches make an appearance sometime soon.

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The argument that it makes sense to do the coaches is really only from a modellers' wish list perspective given people are buying the loco regardless.

 

Hornby would weigh up each investment on it's own merits: the 91 has to sell as a stand alone and similarly the coaches would have to generate more than any other product they could do instead. Not everyone upgrading the loco would automatically replace all their stock as well.

 

Ironically, someone else investing in the range of coaches could be seen as complimentary to Hornby's offering as would probably boost sales of their loco with no financial outlay on their part.

 

 

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And then there's people like me who are happy with the Intercity livery and the mk3 DVT to run with his mk3 ^_^ couldn't care less if they release mk4s or not :P

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6 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:


I've gone for an IC one and the VTEC "For the Fallen".... let's hope some coaches make an appearance sometime soon.

2021 is likely the year they will show up Hayley. My true reason for some matching Mk4's is because I had some great memories of riding them up to 2017 when I was living in England :).

3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

The argument that it makes sense to do the coaches is really only from a modellers' wish list perspective given people are buying the loco regardless.

 

Hornby would weigh up each investment on it's own merits: the 91 has to sell as a stand alone and similarly the coaches would have to generate more than any other product they could do instead. Not everyone upgrading the loco would automatically replace all their stock as well.

 

Ironically, someone else investing in the range of coaches could be seen as complimentary to Hornby's offering as would probably boost sales of their loco with no financial outlay on their part.

Up to a point I agree with you mate. But for me, my reason of getting the Mk4's would be to have a complete IC225 train in the VTEC livery because I used to enjoy these trains until I left England in 2017. The VTEC was one of the best liveries that the ECML fleet wore as it was bright and it stood out more. You are right though, with excepts like my needs. It will mostly be modellers with a large layout and clubs that need the full rakes of new Mk4 stock that will buy them up upon release :).

41 minutes ago, Markn said:

And then there's people like me who are happy with the Intercity livery and the mk3 DVT to run with his mk3 ^_^ couldn't care less if they release mk4s or not :P

Just like me mate. I will probably run my Hornby IC 91 with my Lima Mk3's and the dummy HST power car at the other end just for fun times as I mostly run my models trains as I see fit ;).

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1 hour ago, BritishRail60062 said:

... I mostly run my models trains as I see fit ;).

 

*Gasps!* You hear about such people but you never think you will actually come across one - can't we have him banned or something?  

(from a fellow Norn Ironer!)

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On ‎24‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 12:00, Pete the Elaner said:

There has been talk of those services being handled by class 90s with Mk4s.

Apparently these have better acceleration, the WCML crews already have knowledge of them & the higher top speed of the 91s cannot be used on the WCML.

I don't think it has been finalised yet.

 

Going O/T.

Reported elsewhere.

90026 has been reinstated to use and has gone to Toton last week - to be painted in GC colours. 90020/21/29/39 to follow.

Edited by newbryford
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On 25/01/2020 at 15:09, cwam said:

 

*Gasps!* You hear about such people but you never think you will actually come across one - can't we have him banned or something?  

(from a fellow Norn Ironer!)

I stepped out of line yesterday big time yesterday as when the Harp beer took a hold. I thought it was a good idea to use my Eurostar power cars with my rake of GWR Mk3's! :jester:. I will save the footage for April the 1st!

 

They always say "A little of what you fancy - does you good!" ;).

 

I'll get my coat. 

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Whilst I prefer modelling the steam era for various reasons, my main interest day to day is in the recent and current rail scene. I don't usually get weak at the knees at models of more modern prototypes, but the promo shot of the 91 in IC Swallow looks the dogs danglies! It'll be very difficult for me not to free up some cash somehow and buy one. 

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On 25/01/2020 at 21:08, newbryford said:

 

Going O/T.

Reported elsewhere.

90026 has been reinstated to use and has gone to Toton last week - to be painted in GC colours. 90020/21/29/39 to follow.

 

 

Can't wait to see this. Do you know of the MK4 coaches and MK4 DVT will get the same GC treatment?

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I was curious to see how the new one compares to the old, so I took a picture of mine...

 

The body lines up with the old one perfectly, only the front buffers stick out further on the new one.

 

 

91newold.jpg

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4 hours ago, FullRake said:

.. so I took a picture of mine...

 

I'm sorry FullRake but I'm not clear as to what the upper model in the photo is?  Presumably the lower model is the current Hornby offering?

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8 minutes ago, Dixie Dean said:

 

I'm sorry FullRake but I'm not clear as to what the upper model in the photo is?  Presumably the lower model is the current Hornby offering?

 

The lower photo is the one you're going to get :jester:

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45 minutes ago, Dixie Dean said:

 

I'm sorry FullRake but I'm not clear as to what the upper model in the photo is?  Presumably the lower model is the current Hornby offering?

The upper image is Hornbys CG rendering for the new one. The bottom image is the current old model.

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1 minute ago, Hilux5972 said:

The upper image is Hornbys CG rendering for the new one.

 

Thanks for that Hilux5972, I haven't seen that before.  TBQH it doesn't look half bad, but if it's the same pantograph as the 87 I'm not that impressed that it can't be posed.

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6 hours ago, Dixie Dean said:

 

Thanks for that Hilux5972, I haven't seen that before.  TBQH it doesn't look half bad, but if it's the same pantograph as the 87 I'm not that impressed that it can't be posed.

Yes, the top picture is from Hornby's website.

 

Hopfully they update the coaches and DVT too. They should have updated the DVT at the same time and sell them as a pair like the HST and Hitachi 800 packs

 

 

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Its worth remembering that while the class 87 was introduced, the Mk3’s are still the same old same old...

 

Hornby arnt wet behind the ears, they will know that all they need to do its make the 91 and they can happily rake in a ton of revenue on the old mk4’s just by making a set of two in LNER colours... people are paying over £200 for the R3501 set..., 91’s are at peak popularity, they will scramble for LNER mk4’s old tooling or new.

 

it was a similar story on the HST power cars.. they squeezed every last livery out of the mk3’s before only now tooling the sliding door versions.

 

If they wanted to, as mentioned above, screw the fairings to the body, fit an NEM to it, and use the DVT bogie on the coaches.. job done, no better or worse than their current loco hauled mk3’s... and no ones complaining about them.

 

Edited by adb968008
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