Jump to content
 

Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

I believe that there was a plan gor a longer tunnel in that area at one time, inckuding IIRC a road tunnel. But there have been many changes of plan since then and we are still waiting for a definitive announcement.

 

Jamie

Our MP has advocated for a road tunnel under Woodhead from time to time.

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Back on topic.

 

Spoil from the London HS2 tunnel excavations, running east and west from OOC, plus the spoil from excavation of the OOC station box, will be transported to the new Willesden terminal site by a conveyor system.

 

Some of the overhead conveyor sections were installed last weekend.

The Dudding Hill Line is crossed here.....

 

 

20210927_142846-jpg.2118325

 

20210927_142824-jpg.2118328

 

picture1-png.2119407

 

In this view of part of the Victoria Road site, that large crane can be seen in the middle of the shot, behind some buildings.

The blue and white crane jibs to the right, are on the OOC site.

Another conveyor will take spoil from the Victoria Road box, to join the same conveyor system.

 

20210924_150525-jpg.2124909

 

 

 

 

.

Edited by Ron Ron Ron
  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 5
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The Victoria Road Box worksite, in west London..........(just to the west of OOC).

 

The already built, auxiliary shaft can be seen at the bottom left (with the large red crane).

The top of the actual crossover box, can be seen beginning to take shape in the middle of the photo.

By next spring, there'll be a whacking big hole in the ground, here.

 

 

FAi49sZXMAc4iPU?format=jpg&name=medium

 

20210924_150533-jpg.2124789

 

 

 

.

  • Like 6
  • Informative/Useful 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

.

 

The first of two TBM's digging the Chilterns Tunnels, Florence, is now over 1 mile into its dig.

Cecilia is a few hundred metres behind.

 

[Edit]  Note the flat concrete "roadway" (the flat floor) from the start of the tunnel, up until the moving bridge.

Once over the bridge, note the curved base formed by the tunnel segments.

The concrete (and drainage) is laid under the moving bridge, allowing road traffic and machinery to continue to flow between the tunnel entrance and the TBM, by crossing over the top of the concreting work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited by Ron Ron Ron
  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 25/09/2021 at 19:46, class26 said:

It doesn`t save very much, it`s almost the same price to build for 140mph as 200 mph  

Yes, but then factor in the cost of maintenance of the P-Way over  100 years of operation

Edited by Pandora
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Agreed. As I said it is not simply the capital cost. There is the cost of sourcing new trains every 40 years or so, the cost of staff, the cost of maintenance and maintaining maintenance facilities. Even the cost of maintaining the track is not easy: wear and tear caused by x trains at 200 mph or x + y at 140 mph (to provide the same capacity) for example. I don't know the answers, but certainly reducing the maximum speed does not reduce the cost of running the railway by anything like the same proportion, if at all. If our ancestors had not vastly overspecified the railway lines they built (albeit often by accident) we would not now have a usable network. It always makes sense to think about the future rather than the next six months.

Jonathan

  • Like 2
  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Agreed that that is the way it is looked at, but in reality there is only one pot of money (unless you know of a private one). One needs to think of the total cost/benefit over the life of the asset. That is one problem with our system, in that both the Treasury and the financial markets only look a very short time ahead, the latter because all they think about is the half yearly results rather than the health of the organisations. Other European countries seem to take a much longer view.

Jonathan

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
12 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Agreed that that is the way it is looked at, but in reality there is only one pot of money (unless you know of a private one). One needs to think of the total cost/benefit over the life of the asset. That is one problem with our system, in that both the Treasury and the financial markets only look a very short time ahead, the latter because all they think about is the half yearly results rather than the health of the organisations. Other European countries seem to take a much longer view.

Jonathan

I think that's a bit of a stereotype of the financial markets and companies.  Institutional shareholders tend to take a dim view of CEOs of Public Companies who return too much cash to shareholders by loading the companies with debt (Private companies are of course free to commit commercial suicide with impunity).  Individual private investors (like day-traders) are also more likely to think too short term, while the market in company shares (and often company share ownership) is dominated by pension funds, who certainly do think long term.  They have to, being one of the few industries that genuinely needs to know - to within a few percent if possible - what its outgoings will be in 50 years time.  Most companies would struggle to predict their future 10 years ahead.

  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 27/09/2021 at 20:53, lmsforever said:

But they smash the roads by constant usage.

More than made up by the amount paid to HMG through road tax & fuel duty.

 

Would you prefer to have lighter trucks but more, many more of them ?

 

& please don't bang the "put freight back on the railways" drum because it will never happen for mixed loads/destinations, maybe for bulk but without the investment & will to pay for it - not in our lifetime. There would be some chance if we were not in a "must have it tomorrow" society so remeber that when you order from River.

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

More than made up by the amount paid to HMG through road tax & fuel duty.

 

If only it were ring-fenced for that use. Fuel duty and road tax goes into the same big pot with everything else and could be used for defence, or NHS, etc, not just road repairs. Same as the tax on cigarettes and alcohol, the money goes wherever it's most required by the treasury, not just on the NHS (although it can be argued that if it is going in and out of 1 big pot then it is ending up back there)

 

Anyway, back to HS2...

  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
1 hour ago, SamThomas said:

More than made up by the amount paid to HMG through road tax & fuel duty.

 

Would you prefer to have lighter trucks but more, many more of them ?

 

& please don't bang the "put freight back on the railways" drum because it will never happen for mixed loads/destinations, maybe for bulk but without the investment & will to pay for it - not in our lifetime. There would be some chance if we were not in a "must have it tomorrow" society so remeber that when you order from River.

I can't remember  the figures but HGV's do notbpay their fair share towards the damage that they do. The Vehicle Excise Licence cost may seem high but it isn't proportianate by a long chalk.  

 

Jamie

  • Agree 3
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

I can't remember  the figures but HGV's do notbpay their fair share towards the damage that they do. The Vehicle Excise Licence cost may seem high but it isn't proportianate by a long chalk.  

 

Jamie

Lets have some figures to back that up then please.

 

A single manned HGV can pay something like £200/day in fuel duty/VAT or £1,000/week to HMG - if HMG choose not to spend it on road maintenece then that is not the fault of the logistics industry.

 

Modern HGV's are far more "road friendly" these days with air suspension. If the authorities do not maintain the roads properly then continued use by all vehicles will make their condition deteriorate.

 

So many people voicing opinions about an industry they know nothing about. As I've said many times, if you are anti-HGV then stop buying stuff.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

 

Anyway, back to HS2...

Talking of which - I wish this thread was split into construction & politics/finance. I'm interested in the technical/contructive side but have no wish to trawl through loads of guff about finance/politics/MP's/NIMBY's.

  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

I agree with those who would like to keep the thread to the project. So many thanks to Ron Ron Ron for the regular updates.

Off topic (against what I have just said) but just one small fact about paying for road repairs. Most roads are actually maintained by local authorities, so the route for any income from taxation to the contractor who does any repairs is very tenuous.

A pity I am never likely never to travel on HS2. Powys mostly doesn't even have double track railways.

Jonathan

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

And add in that all of us on here arent getting any younger...

 

I am indebted to a friend who, one evening at a pub quiz, remarked that we were now of an age where we should wonder if we'll be alive to see the next world cup, never mind who will be playing in it.

 

It hadn't occurred to me until then...

  • Like 1
  • Friendly/supportive 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 02/10/2021 at 12:14, corneliuslundie said:

Agreed that that is the way it is looked at, but in reality there is only one pot of money (unless you know of a private one).

 

Given any operator of a railway in the UK pays track access charges I think that identifies the separate pot of money quite neatly...

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Sorry, the point I was trying to make is that one needs to take the capital cost of the project and the running costs and income over the life of the project together. That is the single "pot" I was referring to. It doesn't matter whether the money comes from franchisees, fares, freight customers or the retail premises let out on stations. It all has to go into one "pot" to work out whether the project is making money. There is no nice charity making donations to balance the books (unless you think that description fits the Chancellor) and even that would not reflect the viability of the project, only that someone was feeling generous. Agreed also before anyone points it out, that one income flow may be public funding to cover the "social" benefits of railways, but that is also taken into account in any cost/benefit analysis.

What I don't have the information to work out is the significance of things like wages in the total project, ie the significance of having more trains to staff and maintain if speeds are reduced. Or the difference in energy costs between, say, x trains running at y mph and x + 2 trains running at y - 25 mph to provide the same capacity. Or for that matter the difference in track maintenance costs for the two scenarios.

Jonathan

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like the eastern branch to Leeds is not happenning  Shapps has been reported as confirming it with the comment  that connectivity to the midlands is more important.Better connections over existing links are planned  which will benifit locals as services to leeds are well covered by Kings Cross trains .i wonder if more cuts to the route are in the future ?

  • Informative/Useful 3
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, friscopete said:

All these tunnels will make wonderful bunkers come the crash/fall /decline / appocalypse.

 

That's maybe why they've now added an extra tunnel, between the West Ruislip portal and the Colne Valley viaduct.

Cut and cover mind you.

To appease the natives apparently.

 

 

.

 

.

  • Like 3
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...