“BEYOND DOVER”

[Mikkel]

10 hours ago, Northroader said:

In bullhead rail, high level platform, one of those 517 rebuilds like Graham’s done, a Saltney wagon, a D299wagon (must have one of those) what more could anyone wish for? (I bet it would fit in your flat comfortably)

 

Yes exactly! Perhaps a warehouse rather than a passenger platform.

 

Anyway, back to Catalunya. I look forward to your scenics. Given the character of the place, the backscene should do most of the work in setting the scene, especially with your painting skills.

[Pacific231G]

On 28/10/2020 at 16:58, Northroader said:

Thanks for your comments, David, it’s another instance of the civilising influence of railways that they could reduce the transport costs of an expensive commodity sufficiently for lower income groups to enjoy it as well.

If you want to find out more about France's internal bulk wine traffic there's a good thread on the French equivalent to RMWeb here.

https://forum.e-train.fr/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5424

It's in French of course but automatic translation by Google translate etc. is pretty good these days.

To give an idea of just how important this traffic was to the CF du Midi as well as to the PLM this is the annual tonnage return for ordinary goods (as opposed to parcels and posts) shipped from Carcassonne in 1881

http://forum.e-train.fr/trains/download/file.php?id=498952

Wine and spirits account for almost 3/4 of the total.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Pacific231G

[Andy Hayter]

Indeed David,

as we here in France say, a meal without wine is called

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Breakfast

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Andy Hayter

[Northroader]

ZURICH UNIVERSITY PHOTOGRAPH ARCHIVES.

 

Here’s some news about a good research source. Yesterday I got my HMRS journal, and they gave a pointer, so off I went to try it out. It’s at the Zurich University, where they have scanned a huge amount of old pictures, and they’re giving free downloads, with no copyright problems. There’s any quantity of subject matter, not just Railways. The search engine takes some work to get through to, perhaps a seasoned researcher would do better, I just said “PLM” and it came back with some old photographs like the one I’m showing here, including some NORD and PO as well. More digging might turn up more, and British modellers should note there’s bits from this side of the Channel, too. Besides needing to know gnomespeak on the search, downloading is fun, with miniature pictograms which again knowledgeable folks will recognise, but me? Don’t ask how I got it this far, I’ve forgotten already.

 The link is:  https://ba.e-pics.ethz.ch/login/welcome.jspx

 

 

so heres a sample, a PLM “Mammouth” 0-6-0, high resolution photo.

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Northroader

[pete_mcfarlane]

Is that a spring  on the boiler above the rear driver?

[Mikkel]

Oh dear, what have you started. I searched for "lokomotiv" in the ETH library and it came up with 312 pages.  I see that some images don't have a download option (only an "add to basket"), but there is still lots to browse. Very diverse collection, but some real gems in there.

 

 

Beyer, Peacock & Co. Ltd., Egyptian State Railways 101 "Cairo", built 1857, photo 1887. Two members of this class. 

[Northroader]

10 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

Is that a spring  on the boiler above the rear driver?

If you think about it, the rear axlebox and the front corner of the firebox are very close together, so it’s finding somewhere to fix the back end of the spring. Where they’ve put it is very get-attable, although looking a bit clumsy. Most long boiler types seem to have managed a neater solution.

[Northroader]

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Oh dear, what have you started. I searched for "lokomotiv" in the ETH library and it came up with 312 pages.  I see that some images don't have a download option (only an "add to basket"), but there is still lots to browse. Very diverse collection, but some real gems in there.

 

 

Beyer, Peacock & Co. Ltd., Egyptian State Railways 101 "Cairo", built 1857, photo 1887. Two members of this class. 

 

You’ve found a GWR 322 class with a silly cab there, Mikkel. The grandson of the original railway Trevithick was the loco engineer for the Egyptian State, having worked at Swindon, and gave the fleet a very GWR look. Another Swindon apprentice, E L Ahrons, better known for his histories, served out there for a time as a shedmaster, and wrote about it in, I think, the Locomotive Magazine, being not very impressed with the workforce. All in all, a promising prototype. (???)

The picture I posted came out of a basket, one of the pictograms calling up a download, then one asking for a server route (Durh), and somehow I found a way where I could put it where I could do an “image save”, but there must be a better way.  I also decided that browsing outside office hours is better, it seems to give up quite quickly otherwise. Anyhow, something for you to do in the long winter nights.

 

[pete_mcfarlane]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

If you think about it, the rear axlebox and the front corner of the firebox are very close together, so it’s finding somewhere to fix the back end of the spring. Where they’ve put it is very get-attable, although looking a bit clumsy. Most long boiler types seem to have managed a neater solution.

It does seem to put extra stresses on the boiler. I'd imagen a modern boiler inspector would have a fit. 

[alastairq]

Looks like the spring is mounted on some sort of saddle, going over the boiler cladding? 

[cctransuk]

20 hours ago, Northroader said:

Here’s some news about a good research source. 

 

Thanks for that - there are some very nice BR works photos there.

 

Also this : -

 

 

A products of Vulcan Foundry, clearly - but not one that I recall having come across previously.

 

It'd make a lovely model ..... from someone such as Michael Edge !?!

 

John Isherwood.

[Northroader]

24 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Looks like the spring is mounted on some sort of saddle, going over the boiler cladding? 

Doubtful, the support would be needed from below. Most probably brackets are riveted to the boiler shell.

That diesel, wonder if it went better than the “Teddy Bears”? Looks good.

[burgundy]

8 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Oh dear, what have you started. I searched for "lokomotiv" in the ETH library and it came up with 312 pages.  I see that some images don't have a download option (only an "add to basket"), but there is still lots to browse. Very diverse collection, but some real gems in there.

 

 

Beyer, Peacock & Co. Ltd., Egyptian State Railways 101 "Cairo", built 1857, photo 1887. Two members of this class. 

If anyone is looking for a kit for an Egyptian State Railways loco in 4mm scale, EBModels @ianmaccormac does a Stephenson 2-2-2. These were originally delivered to the Brighton, but, because of financial embarrassment, four were put up for sale and went to Egypt.  I wonder if any photo survives?

Best wishes 

Eric   

[Northroader]

EGYPTIAN RAILWAYS.

 

DHow about this?

I think the second one is the Brighton one? The other is a different loco with larger wheels and different spring arrangement.

You know, nineteenth century Egyptian State does look very tasty.

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Northroader

[Johann Marsbar]

45 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Thanks for that - there are some very nice BR works photos there.

 

Also this : -

 

 

A products of Vulcan Foundry, clearly - but not one that I recall having come across previously.

 

It'd make a lovely model ..... from someone such as Michael Edge !?!

 

John Isherwood.

 

Thats the first diesel loco they built, dating from 1935

 

http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/photographs/Pre EE Diesel/first vulcan frichs loco.pdf

 

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Johann Marsbar

[cctransuk]

11 minutes ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

Thats the first diesel loco they built, dating from 1935

 

http://www.enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/photographs/Pre EE Diesel/first vulcan frichs loco.pdf

 

 

 

Interesting - it found its way to Trieste after the war, working for the UNRRA; did it ever return to the UK?

 

John Isherwood.

[burgundy]

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

How about this?

I think the second one is the Brighton one? The other is a different loco with larger wheels and different spring arrangement.

 

You may well be right, but the first thing that Stroudley did to the Stephensons was to change the driving wheel springs to underhung and fill in the splashers. There was perhaps less need to protect the drivers from the scorching heat of the Sussex sun.  

Best wishes 

Eric

Edited November 7, 2020 by burgundy

[Northroader]

I’m starting to wonder from what you say, if the two photos are of the same class, with one showing the later condition after shopping and boiler renewal.

[ianmaccormac]

Side view of the Brighton one as built. It is the same as that second photo in the wonderfully arched-roof station. I was thinking of drawing the kit for the Craven version as well so may get on with it. It looks like the safety valve/dome shape was all that was changed. Cheers Ian

Edited November 8, 2020 by ianmaccormac
add info

[ianmaccormac]

And this is the Brighton loco which became Hove, which seems to be he loco behind it in that second photo.. A Kitson purchase. The photo taken at the same place. Some exhibition by the look of it in the UK. 

[ianmaccormac]

This early LBSCR loco stuff looks tasty! Too!!!!

 

[Northroader]

ITALIAN RAILWAYS. 2-2-2 LOCOS.

 

ITALIAN MODEL LAYOUT “PLASTICO DI CASTELLO” BUILDINGS & SCENERY.

 

Scratching around to boost your kit sales, Ian, (I’m only here to help) I’ve found a good example of a Stephenson outside frame 2-2-2 in Italy. After the Austrians were pushed out of Lombardy in 1857, more engines were urgently needed for the Lombardy- Venetian Railroad, with the help of Rothschilds. Fifty of these were built, (don’t think the Brighton had that many?), and later divvied up between the Rete Adriatica and the Rete Meditterraneo, before some survivors became FS class 102 in 1905. (Main difference is the dome on the firebox. Could you get away with selling some to GNoS modellers?) see also the link below I’ve since added:

 

 

So far, I haven’t mentioned Italy, which is very remiss. For starters, there’s a excellent model, called “Castillo Di Plastico” with lovely buildings and scenery, to show the possibilities, and good “how to” ideas for such items as olive groves and vineyards, which never seem to get a mention in British modelling circles.

 

https://forum.e-train.fr/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=77139&hilit=Castello

 

Addition: I’ve got to put an extra link in, for the old Italian 2-2-2:

 

https://scalaenne.wordpress.com/2021/01/09/vapore-italiano-le-1a1-fs-103-fs-100-fs-102/

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Northroader

[Mikkel]

On 07/11/2020 at 11:07, Northroader said:

The grandson of the original railway Trevithick was the loco engineer for the Egyptian State, having worked at Swindon, and gave the fleet a very GWR look. Another Swindon apprentice, E L Ahrons, better known for his histories, served out there for a time as a shedmaster, and wrote about it in, I think, the Locomotive Magazine, being not very impressed with the workforce.

 

I had no idea. Very interesting. A web search produced these references:

• E L Ahrons, "Locomotives of the Egyptian State Railways", Locomotive Magazine, Volume 23 (15 August 1917), pp. 165-167.
• E L Ahrons, "Thirty Years of Locomotive Progress in Egypt", Engineer, Volume 118 (27 November 1914), pp 499-501.

Egyptian State 0-6-0 Locomotives in Egypt: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=Egypt&wheel=0-6-0&railroad=es#10467

 

 

 

[Charlie586]

On 28/10/2020 at 12:39, Northroader said:

but 7’ is a nuisance.

I couldn't agree more. 

 

Just caught up with the thread, it's moved on very quickly. I'm more than a bit jealous of the speed you work at. Really like the plan, and those fourgons are giving me all sorts of ideas.

[Northroader]

Thank you, Charlie, the problem with 7’ gauge in a small space is the length of the points, so really it’s better to design a small layout without any. Glad you’re getting some ideas from my ramblings.  As to fast modelling, I’m 83 years old, and if I don’t go fast, somebody’s going to grab me and stick me in a box! Seriously, it doesn’t feel as if I am going fast looking around the loft, I’m trying to control my Mr. Toad tendencies, and finish things off, honest, and for someone in lockdown and retired, I really ought to give more time to doing things than I am.