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Pre-Nationalisation diesel 0-6-0 shunters


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On 13/03/2020 at 20:12, Nearholmer said:


I always wonder about design attribution with locos that are so obviously built to a generic design thrashed out between a railway (LMS) and its suppliers, and then procured and/or part-built-in-house by another railway.

 

Definitely a camel.

Always wondered about those massive fly-cranks .... far chunkier than those on otherwise similar-looking machines

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What the Americans would call a road switcher as opposed to a yard switcher; they could run at up to 35mph which was useful when it came to keeping out of the way of other traffic.  BR used 08s for trip work in general, but they were never really suitable for it. 

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18 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

Always wondered about those massive fly-cranks .... far chunkier than those on otherwise similar-looking machines


I think it might have resulted from a decision to put the balancing mass in the fly-crank, rather than the wheel itself. Although the mass doesn’t seem to be in quite the right place.

 

Putting balancing mass in the fly-crank Is quite a common thing on locos designed by ‘industrial’ loco builders, and quite common worldwide, almost to the degree where putting the balancing mass in the wheel (which then necessitates a fixed relationship between how the wheel and crank are fitted) might be seen as exceptional, and a carry-over from olden-days steam practice.

 

This Brush loco shows typical ‘industrial’ (and export, and US, and German etc) practice 

Class D2/11 - D2999 - Brush BR Class D2/11 0-4-0DE Shunter - built 09/60 by Beyer Peacock Ltd - 10/67 withdrawn, 03/68 scrapped.   In 1958 Brush Traction Ltd and Beyer Peacock co-operated to produce five prototype diesel-electric shunting locomotives of 0-4-0 wheel arrangement. They were intended to demonstrate a new generation of diesel shunters for industrial and mainline use. Two were loaned to British Railways for trials, and one was subsequently purchased by BR. However no large scale orders resulted from these demonstrators. D2999 was loaned to BR from 1960 and subsequently purchased by them for further use. This loco was used from Stratford for a few years and eventually under the National Traction rationalisation plan was withdrawn in October 1967. Similar locomotives were built for industrial use, notably for steelworks in South Wales and Yorkshire.

 

 

What do others think?

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

What the Americans would call a road switcher as opposed to a yard switcher; they could run at up to 35mph which was useful when it came to keeping out of the way of other traffic.  BR used 08s for trip work in general, but they were never really suitable for it. 

weren't the 09s developed from the 08s for trip working? 

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Sort of ......... they were 'just' 08s with a different gear ratio  -  but followed the aforementioned Bulleid locos ( BR class 12 ) which were go-faster machines : oddly, those didn't have train brakes originally - so intended for short distance work between yards.

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The Bulleid 500hp ‘Diesel Q1’, which was very definitely a trip loco, able for long pick-up goods runs, I don’t think had train brakes (can anyone say for certain?) presumably because the sort of goods trains concerned were ‘unfitted’.

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9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

What the Americans would call a road switcher as opposed to a yard switcher; they could run at up to 35mph which was useful when it came to keeping out of the way of other traffic.  BR used 08s for trip work in general, but they were never really suitable for it. 

 

Perhaps that's the reason why it was preserved, as its relatively high top speed meant that it could actually be used to pull revenue earning trains.

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6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

The Bulleid 500hp ‘Diesel Q1’, which was very definitely a trip loco, able for long pick-up goods runs, I don’t think had train brakes (can anyone say for certain?) presumably because the sort of goods trains concerned were ‘unfitted’.

I'm sure I've read that this loco wasn't as successful as was hoped because it was rather high-geared for slow shunting but rather low-geared for distance trip work.

 

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Yes, I've read the same somewhere.

 

You'd have thought that easy to solve with a two-range selector, which it was what Ruston provided on locos for Bord na Mona in Ireland when exactly the same problem arose there.

 

Maybe that would have figured in a MkII, but the there never was one.

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11 hours ago, The Johnster said:

What the Americans would call a road switcher as opposed to a yard switcher; they could run at up to 35mph which was useful when it came to keeping out of the way of other traffic.  BR used 08s for trip work in general, but they were never really suitable for it. 

The sort of job that BR(W) designed the D9500 series (the class 14s) to do, even if there were sometimes questions about their ability to stop unbraked trains.

 

Jim

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Yes, the D95xx were very much in the ‘road switcher’ category; 45mph and 650hp.  They were conceived as replacement for the Hawksworth 94xx, itself a replacement for pre-grouping South Wales locos.  

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12 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Class D2/11 - D2999 - Brush BR Class D2/11 0-4-0DE Shunter - built 09/60 by Beyer Peacock Ltd - 10/67 withdrawn, 03/68 scrapped.   In 1958 Brush Traction Ltd and Beyer Peacock co-operated to produce five prototype diesel-electric shunting locomotives of 0-4-0 wheel arrangement. They were intended to demonstrate a new generation of diesel shunters for industrial and mainline use. Two were loaned to British Railways for trials, and one was subsequently purchased by BR. However no large scale orders resulted from these demonstrators. D2999 was loaned to BR from 1960 and subsequently purchased by them for further use. This loco was used from Stratford for a few years and eventually under the National Traction rationalisation plan was withdrawn in October 1967. Similar locomotives were built for industrial use, notably for steelworks in South Wales and Yorkshire.

 

What do others think?

 

 

Well - I can tell you that BR bought it (or one very like it) and gave it the number D2999.

 

D2999_01.jpg.fd7ff0d25816f78bd37925f0f20b473f.jpg

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited by cctransuk
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On 15/03/2020 at 19:04, montyburns56 said:

I know this a BR shunter but i wasn't even aware of it until a few days ago, but I'm curious as to how an oddball shunter has ended up being preserved especially as only two of them were ever made. Does anyone know the story behind its preservation? 

 

D227

 

D0226 - English Electric Diesel Loco "Vulcan"

 

 

 

It was refurbished, but they couldn't find a buyer so it was used as a shunter at the Vulcan Works until the work dried up. Then went on loan to the KWVR and it stayed. Eventually English Electric donated it.

 

It's use? It was originally a dock shunter. Worked at Liverpool Docks then went to Stratford for a while.

 

 

Jason

Edited by Steamport Southport
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On 15/03/2020 at 19:52, keefer said:

I always thought the cab end just had a sort of 'bunker' shape to it, but there's a centre section as well.

 

It is a bunker - a diesel oil bunker (or tank).

 

886665714_D0226_01(ASD226).jpg.424ee2a1e5a5611b5da83fa5680cbc59.jpg

 

D0227_03.jpg.c1fe535ac90fa056a6bf50734823d276.jpg

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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20 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

It was refurbished, but they couldn't find a buyer so it was used as a shunter at the Vulcan Works until the work dried up. Then went on loan to the KWVR and it stayed. Eventually English Electric donated it.

 

It's use? It was originally a dock shunter. Worked at Liverpool Docks then went to Stratford for a while.

 

 

Jason

 

Ahh right that explains it then. It was freebie and in working condition to boot!

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There are some references to war time diesel shunters being capable of 30 MPH plus. The problem was the traction motor couldn't stand the revs. I must have a hunt for sources.   [Edit   Pretty sure it was a reference to Martin Miill Military Railway near Dover and the book was a soft back A5 size which had a Dean Goods with Pannier tanks in WD Livery on the front, but can't find the book at present.]

08s also tended to suffer slipped cranks which saw their max speed progressively cut from 25 or 30 down to 15.   Its a great shame so many were built.  A decent two bogie 600bhp 40 tonner small road switcher  like the Americans used with a Soutern DEMU power unit could have saved so many branches and small goods yards, which the 08s were too slow to serve and class 20s/ 25 etc too expensive and uneconomic.

Edited by DavidCBroad
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On 06/03/2020 at 12:46, Michael Edge said:

Most of the drawings have been done, might even be the next test etch. I don't think we'll ever run out of ideas though.

 

Just found this thread.

 

Pleased that the Edge Empire is about to release etches for the three Maunsell 0-6-0 350 HP shunters. Way back in September 1964 after completing the first year of my fitting apprenticeship at Eastleigh Works I moved to Eastleigh Diesel Depot to continue my training. The excellent Ron Turner was the foreman and my first job was to assist on an exam of 15201. So Michael please let me know when the etch is available and I will buy immeadiately if not sooner!

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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On 15/03/2020 at 20:02, russ p said:

Strictly speaking they are trip locos.

One had an hydraulic transmission  (227) and the other a single traction motor I believe driving a carden shaft to a final drive on an axle

They were never BR property so 226 was probably bought off EE direct 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_D0226

 

the link confirms EE built a pair,,  227/8   electric vs hydraulic  transmission trials? The locos have an Indian Railway look  to my mind, the large outlet for the cooling radiator air suggest hot climate design,  EE did have a decent presence in the former countries of the British empire,   were they a prototype class for the attention of such export markets?

 

ps,  here is a link to an EE export to the Malaysian Railway

Malaya

 

Edited by Pandora
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On 06/03/2020 at 12:46, Michael Edge said:

Most of the drawings have been done, might even be the next test etch. I don't think we'll ever run out of ideas though.

 

   Please ....   15100 needs company !

haw les finished 002.jpg

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I actually have a resin kit for one of these Maunsell D3/12 shunters made by Golden Arrow Models. Unfortunately I haven't made much progress with it! It is one of the earlier ones designed to go onto a Lima 08 shunter chassis. The later ones are designed to go onto the Bachman 08 chassis. I have decide to modify it to fit on a Hornby 08 chassis that I bought from New Modellers. The wheels were ordered separately, along with the coupling rods. I have got to fit a gearbox to it along with a large 5 pole skew wound motor I got on Ebay from Germany similar to the ones Hornby use on their Merchant Navy loco. I have to add steps, sandboxes and other details yet. The running plate moulded to resin body was cut away and where the step down at the cab is, I had to cut away the running plate on the Hornby chassis and add a new one out of 40 thou black plasticard. The cab steps supplied with the kit are cast in white metal and are designed to be fitted to the resin body, but as I have cut the running plate away in that area, I will need to scratch build new ones as replacements. As can be seen, The body isn't a perfect fit on the chassis yet, but it's nearly there. The kit doesn't have the extra windows in the back of the cab but I intend to add these.

 

Gary 

shunter1.jpg

shunter2.jpg

shunter3.jpg

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