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GWR "Herring" Ballast Hopper Wagon


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3 hours ago, bubbles2 said:

That looks very good Adam, I have built 4 and have 5 more not yet started, can I ask who's transfers you used. 


A mix - the basic markings are CCT, the data panel from Railtec and the stencilled ‘Stoneycombe’ pieced together from a sheet of suitable stencil lettering, origin forgotten.

 

Adam

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There don’t seem to be many transfers out there other than CCT.

 

Couldnt see anything at Modelmaster or Railtec... Fox have a generic PW sheet which will do one Herring.

 

CCT are good and John has done me a mix of return destinations but googling shows lettering tended not to be applied consistently. Ah well will buy one Fox sheet for the branding and just mix up lettering locations on the others. 
 

Then there’s the vac pipe dilemma. Running with tension locks precludes them when fitted below the buffer beams and they are not very visible so no worries. But not on these herrings with their stand up pipes. Have made one for the tail vehicle but I see Lanarkshire have some excellent ones so will fit those to lead and tail vehicles. But what about intermediates? Can’t run as a class 6 if all those vac pipes are visibly unconnected ...

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On 07/11/2020 at 09:23, Phil Bullock said:


The end gussets still need fettling a tad but not too much trouble! I too have broken a W iron trying to straighten it but managed to rescue ... not trying any more, less risky to set the bearings in a tad. Other mouldings need no more fettling than I would have expected ....

Your photos, plus Adam's are very useful, thanks.

 

I found that the positioning of the upper hopper to the main 'footplate' and chassis moulding to be critical. Notwithstanding that, I still had to fettle the end gussets as well, tedious but necessary.

 

The side gussets went in much more easily, although I put each one in the vice, vertically and filed the outward-facing section flat with a file, to remove the moulding line.

 

All in all, I'm happy with progress so far. I found it easy enough to match the brake shoe assembly for P4 gauge as well, although I usually glue a couple of pieces on like that and leave them to dry hard, before gluing the next few components in place.

 

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Looking again at Paul Bartletts pictures .... I wonder if I should have added a longer lever to the bi-directional crank on the big v hanger to take the operating rod up behind the sole bar. This would also take the operating rod above the axle rather than its current position below it. 
 

Trouble is there’s so much in there it’s hard to see what’s what! Can we turn a prototype upside down please?

 

 

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18 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Looking again at Paul Bartletts pictures .... I wonder if I should have added a longer lever to the bi-directional crank on the big v hanger to take the operating rod up behind the sole bar. This would also take the operating rod above the axle rather than its current position below it.

Is there an option for a longer lever, Phil? If so, are you saying that you have fitted the wrong one, or is the lever supplied by Cambrian not long enough?

 

I'm just about in the position on my first Herring, where I can fortunately take advantage of your tip!

20201115_145833.jpg.8e042c3271e9693747eddd28e31acd3a.jpg

 

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Welcome Tim it’s what we are all about on here. There’s nothing in the kit ....if I read the instructions correctly it just says the rod goes to the top of the crank....a bit vague. I fabricated a short extension but I reckon a longer one is in order based on one of Paul Bartlett's photos

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brherring

 

First photo bottom row

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17 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Welcome Tim it’s what we are all about on here. There’s nothing in the kit ....if I read the instructions correctly it just says the rod goes to the top of the crank....a bit vague. I fabricated a short extension but I reckon a longer one is in order based on one of Paul Bartlett's photos

 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brherring

 

First photo bottom row

Hi Phil,

 

I was struggling to see what you were referring to at first, because you do appear to have the correct length of operating rod from the end of the wagon to the two respective 'V' hangers part-way down the wagon (these rods are of necessity of differing lengths), albeit I note that yours do go under the axles (when the wagon is the correct way up!) and I suspect that Justin's are correct in going over the top of the axles.

 

However, am I correct in thinking that it's not the length of these rods that you are referring to, but rather the length of the cranks that connect these rods to the main brake shaft at that end of the wagon, please?

 

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Spot the herrings, worth watching all the way

 

 

Tim ... will get back to your query shortly , need to ensure consistent terminology

 

@Pierre Le Brun some nice Ex GWR rail cars too.....

 

 

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5 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Hi Phil,

 

I was struggling to see what you were referring to at first, because you do appear to have the correct length of operating rod from the end of the wagon to the two respective 'V' hangers part-way down the wagon (these rods are of necessity of differing lengths), albeit I note that yours do go under the axles (when the wagon is the correct way up!) and I suspect that Justin's are correct in going over the top of the axles.

 

However, am I correct in thinking that it's not the length of these rods that you are referring to, but rather the length of the cranks that connect these rods to the main brake shaft at that end of the wagon, please?

 


Right .... hopefully clear if you look at the brake push rod fabrications on page 44/45 of Justin Newitt’s instructions as kindly posted above by @Re6/6There is a long crank which goes on the shaft inside the large V hanger which means the push rod is up at sole bar level and therefore above the axle at the vac cylinder end. Wish I had seen that earlier. The smaller scale Cambrian instructions are not clear re brake gear.... recommend anyone wishing to install a full representation on the Cambrian model looks at the above instructions first.

 

Dont have the heart to correct mine... have also installed pick ups for a working tail lamp, too much to re-do!

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51 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:


Right .... hopefully clear if you look at the brake push rod fabrications on page 44/45 of Justin Newitt’s instructions as kindly posted above by @Re6/6There is a long crank which goes on the shaft inside the large V hanger which means the push rod is up at sole bar level and therefore above the axle at the vac cylinder end. Wish I had seen that earlier. The smaller scale Cambrian instructions are not clear re brake gear.... recommend anyone wishing to install a full representation on the Cambrian model looks at the above instructions first.

 

Dont have the heart to correct mine... have also installed pick ups for a working tail lamp, too much to re-do!

Thanks Phil, and yes, the drawings on page 43 also appear very useful!

 

I see what you mean now. I have fabricated a basic piece of 0.5 mm brass wire, which I have glued (out of sight when the wagon is the right way up!) at solebar level, next to the large 'V' hanger.

 

I did that prior to reading your most helpful post above, as well! (I thought you were thinking about the cranks immediately under the buffer beam at the vacuum cylinder end!).

 

Anyway, got there in the end, hopefully. I don't blame you not wanting to change yours. I doubt anyone will notice, especially if you don't warn them first!

 

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4 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Having the push rods above the axles is also immeasurably helpful, not only in terms of installation but also in that you can take the wheels out again, if necessary!

 

 

I'm in the later stages of building the Rumney version, and, having followed the instructions was somewhat confused as to how I was supposed to fit the wheels as one of the linkages appeared to run below the axle level.  A quick email to Justin confirmed that this is where it is supposed to run, the solution being to either fit the wheels before the brake linkages (and not be able to remove them), or once the linkage is installed and soldered in, cut the section of linkage in line with the axle.  You'd have to get at a very specific angle to notice once the wheels are in.  I suppose if you're really keen, you could make that section removable, which I'm assuming is what happens with the prototype.

 

Adrian

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19 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Spot the herrings, worth watching all the way

 

 

Tim ... will get back to your query shortly , need to ensure consistent terminology

 

@Pierre Le Brun some nice Ex GWR rail cars too.....

 

 

Thanks Phil, the GWR Railcars look good in the video. Just need to sort out the volume in my Hornby Railcar, third attempt at a better speaker. 

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Just completed number 11. @Captain Kernows point about the mould lines on the side gussets is well made. Something else to address on subsequent builds.... but rather than doing each one individually in a vice, a recipe for more lost time searching for grey bits of plastic on a beige carpet before the carpet monster applies the 5 second rule and they disappear forever, I have tried addressing the issue once they are in place and everything has set firm, but before attaching other details such as brake levers. A careful run down with a chisel blade followed by polishing off with a nail file block achieves the desired result.

 

A couple of other points for budding herring builders....

 

The brake blocks will sit in place better if you trim off the mounting lugs at either end of the moulding flush with the mounting bar... the end ones don’t quite align with the holes in the sole bar and the two centre ones do a more than adequate job.

 

The hopper door operating levers will also sit better if you chamfer the hopper door end to match the slope of the doors.

 

My build sequence is now:

 

1. Wheel bearings and axle boxes.

2. Buffer beams

3. V hangers....I now drill the ones on the sole bar 0.5mm and use a length of .45mom NS wire to make sure the inner ones are attached accurately

4. Brake blocks, including operating rods between V hangers

5. White metal buffers and drawhook

6. Hopper body

7. Side gussets

8. End gussets, including vac cylinder at appropriate end.

9. Hopper doors and operating arms

10. Footsteps and brake levers

11. Handrails, W iron braces and operating handle.

12. Tension locks

 

Hope this helps others. Also a vote of thanks to Mr Cambrian for thoughfully including some spare sprues with my significant order....there are occasions when the carpet monster triumphs!

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Out of interest, Phil, have you weighted yours at all?

 

By gluing 'liquid lead' in the available underframe space, I've only got mine up to 18g, which isn't really enough for P4, so I'll have to put weight in the hopper itself and hide it with ballast.

 

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1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

Out of interest, Phil, have you weighted yours at all?

 

By gluing 'liquid lead' in the available underframe space, I've only got mine up to 18g, which isn't really enough for P4, so I'll have to put weight in the hopper itself and hide it with ballast.

 


Morning! Have the same issue .... will have to go down the same road with liquid lead In hopper bottom and ballast loads .... 

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36 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

A small quantity of new Herring were delivered to Kernow Towers today, so the next batch is clearly now available.

 


On number 14 here...

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I am only on number 2 (of 5) and may well take a break after that, or possibly after number 3!

 

Got other stuff to do and I don't need particularly long rakes. Got some other hoppers converted to P4 now aswell, to make up the numbers.

 

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2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

I am only on number 2 (of 5) and may well take a break after that, or possibly after number 3!

 

Got other stuff to do and I don't need particularly long rakes. Got some other hoppers converted to P4 now aswell, to make up the numbers.

 


Look forwards to seeing how yours turn out CK. Have ordered some more transfers from Fox to give a bit of variety ....

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On 16/11/2020 at 14:26, Phil Bullock said:

Spot the herrings, worth watching all the way

 

 

Tim ... will get back to your query shortly , need to ensure consistent terminology

 

@Pierre Le Brun some nice Ex GWR rail cars too.....

 

 

What a great film!  I particularly liked the Coleford Junction shunting scenes. Taken me back 50+ years to a time of perpetual sunshine (?!), Tizer and Ian Allan Combined Volumes.  I also can't believe that I was singing along to tracks I've hardly ever heard since then.  Some things must be really ingrained in one's subconcious!

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3 hours ago, 5050 said:

What a great film!  I particularly liked the Coleford Junction shunting scenes. Taken me back 50+ years to a time of perpetual sunshine (?!), Tizer and Ian Allan Combined Volumes.  I also can't believe that I was singing along to tracks I've hardly ever heard since then.  Some things must be really ingrained in one's subconcious!

Forgot the Lyons Fruit Pies and the Penny Arrows...............:rolleyes:

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