RMweb Premium PJT Posted July 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 9, 2020 47 minutes ago, robmcg said: Ah! I'm presuming therefore that the Peters Spares' body for 35028 won't fit over it, and I shall move on to 'plan b', which has yet to be formulated. (Presuming that their spare bodies are from early version 35028s which weren't DCC-ready?) Hello Robbie, Yes, I've just looked at the bodies on Peter's Spares and all three (Holland Afrika, Holland America and Clan Line) are the early, pre-DCC ready type. Sorry! As I think Sarahagain pointed out a couple of pages ago in the thread, the early bodies are easily and quickly identified by the cab side windows: early = shut windows (three panes), later = open windows (one pane and a big open window area). I don't know if this would work or not without having a later chassis and early body in front of me to look at, but I wouldn't be surprised if the early body would fit on your chassis if you got rid of the DCC socket and connected the driving wheel pick-up wires and the tender connection wires straight through to the motor (retaining the suppression capacitor if you like listening to your radio while you play). Pete T. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 22 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: Depends on what the price was though. Look at the prices some of the Airfix kits go for in the plastic bags for example. I've seen some go for three figures. It's not the kit they want, it's the whole package. Prime example here, if it was in better condition you could double the price. Bit of wear on the header though. https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/153866039908?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=153866039908&targetid=909953938039&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9046551&poi=&campaignid=10199630344&mkgroupid=103308032113&rlsatarget=pla-909953938039&abcId=1145985&merchantid=7390174&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImKTBxv2-6gIVSYBQBh2tiQKVEAQYBSABEgKR9vD_BwE How much for a new Dapol one? About £8. Jason True, but the Dapol example will have several decades more wear on the tooling and be made from inferior quality plastic, so there is some practical advantage to be gained from hunting down the real thing. Dunno about 3x worth though. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, PJT said: ... I don't know if this would work or not without having a later chassis and early body in front of me to look at, but I wouldn't be surprised if the early body would fit on your chassis if you got rid of the DCC socket and connected the driving wheel pick-up wires and the tender connection wires straight through to the motor (retaining the suppression capacitor if you like listening to your radio while you play). Pete T. Aha! Always there is a way! I had a mistaken feeling that the 3-window cabs extended into the DCC-ready era, and that the wider and more realistic part-open window versions were quite a recent change. But had never gone beyond the 'collecting' stage with the purchases of a couple, like 35016 and 35027, and for more recent releases like 35010 and 35016 didn't notice at the time that they had the later windows. In any event we have pleasant winter sunshine today and I have taken it upon myself to look more closely at a couple of my earlier engines, 35023 and R2170 35025 R2267 and they both look good and run, but I suspect need attention to lubrication. Both have the sprung rear driving axle and tend to sit slightly 'cab up' at the rear. So here just for fun are two portraits, 35010 at what could be Eastleigh (at a stretch), and 35016 at speed... but for me 35028 is something special, being the first of the Hornby series, and this below is edited somewhat, but still has a nice look. and of course living in NZ I can't leave out this one... and for good measure one of 35029... Edit; One more pic with Southern Region Bulleid steam, perhaps not quite like syncro-smoke... 35025 on a frosty morning, lovely. Edited July 10, 2020 by robmcg added comment and pic 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 11 hours ago, jonny777 said: Or maybe one of the royals? After all, the Queen has a stamp collection (albeit one owned by the Crown rather than her personally) so why shouldn't one or more of her children have had a trainset for Christmas or birthday in the 1950s/60s and expanded it with presents from Aunty Margaret and Granny Liz each year? Maybe it has been handed down to William and Kate, for their youngsters. Although, with the royals' ready access to the real thing - maybe models were not necessary? EDITED: to add that Charles does seem to have shown an interest.... https://tinyurl.com/y87gczq9 At the very least, if Bassett Lowke didn't send him a Prince Charles they missed a trick. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, PatB said: True, but the Dapol example will have several decades more wear on the tooling and be made from inferior quality plastic, so there is some practical advantage to be gained from hunting down the real thing. Dunno about 3x worth though. Yes I have built Airfix models of steam such as Prairies and 9Fs and the they could be made smooth-running, but not the Dapol version of Biggin Hill I bought a few years back.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 10, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2020 54 minutes ago, PatB said: True, but the Dapol example will have several decades more wear on the tooling and be made from inferior quality plastic, so there is some practical advantage to be gained from hunting down the real thing. Dunno about 3x worth though. I built an Airfix meat van kit when I was about 10 years old, which would have been 1962, and another Kitmaster one last year, which is 57 years later, with the same tooling. As far as memory serves, there was nothing to choose between the two kits in terms of the composition of the plastic or the amount of distortion (none) or flash (none on the Airfix, very little on the KM). The modern model has proper wheels and bearings, and the original had much better instructions. I don't know much about the technical aspects of plastic toolings, but it looks to me like they can last a very long time and still turn out decent mouldings if they are looked after properly. Locos may be a different matter; I made most of them back in the day and could get them to push along reasonably smoothly using pencil graphite as bearing lube; the freest running seemed to be the prairies. I have not built one for many years now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, The Johnster said: I built an Airfix meat van kit when I was about 10 years old, which would have been 1962, and another Kitmaster one last year, which is 57 years later, with the same tooling. As far as memory serves, there was nothing to choose between the two kits in terms of the composition of the plastic or the amount of distortion (none) or flash (none on the Airfix, very little on the KM). The modern model has proper wheels and bearings, and the original had much better instructions. I don't know much about the technical aspects of plastic toolings, but it looks to me like they can last a very long time and still turn out decent mouldings if they are looked after properly. Locos may be a different matter; I made most of them back in the day and could get them to push along reasonably smoothly using pencil graphite as bearing lube; the freest running seemed to be the prairies. I have not built one for many years now. I confess that I have no experience of the current loco or rolling stock kits, but I've built Dapol versions of the engine shed, booking hall and signal box kits. Their parts were definitely less crisp than the Airfix kits of my youth, prone to distortion, had more flash, and were made from a material with a decided "soapy" feeling to it. The degree of inferiority varied, with the signal box being best and the engine shed worst. All were buildable, but all required more work for an acceptable result than I recall from Airfix. They all needed additional reinforcement to make them reasonably robust too, although that might be because I'm now an experienced engineer rather than the clueless 8 year old I once was. I do agree that Dapol's inclusion of proper wheels, bearings and couplings is a major improvement in their wagon kits. I still think the range, as a whole, offers excellent value. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) I don't know if it is still current, but the Dapol kits (now using the "Kitmaster" name and logo) did have a note to say that they were using a softer, recycled, plastic to lessen the wear on the tools. Certainly, the original Airfix plastic is, in my experience, harder. The transfers can be a bit dodgy in the older kits, aged... We have both older Dapol and Airfix wagons made up, and fitted with other makers bearings, wheel sets, and Parkside NEM mountings with NEM couplings. Airfix Meat Van details. Airfix Cattle wagon (details on previous page to the meat van link above.) Older Dapol 16 ton Mineral Wagon. Details... Edited July 10, 2020 by Sarahagain more added 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 12 hours ago, PatB said: True, but the Dapol example will have several decades more wear on the tooling and be made from inferior quality plastic, so there is some practical advantage to be gained from hunting down the real thing. Dunno about 3x worth though. Or you could buy the Airfix kit in the box. Loads about. My point was people are paying £100 plus just for what it's packaged in with no intention of building the kit. There's definitely a market for Airfix collectables that make model railway collectors look like amateurs. People really do collect the boxes. http://www.airfixcollectorsclub.co.uk/index.asp?page=packaging_types Jason 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: Or you could buy the Airfix kit in the box. Loads about. My point was people are paying £100 plus just for what it's packaged in with no intention of building the kit. There's definitely a market for Airfix collectables that make model railway collectors look like amateurs. People really do collect the boxes. http://www.airfixcollectorsclub.co.uk/index.asp?page=packaging_types Jason Or go the whole hog and look at diecast collecting. Corgi Batmobile (5 million made between 1966 and 1983) - any example mint boxed will fetch at least £200. First issues - £500. But if they have the plain white card packing piece and the greay card tube - both of which often got thrown away by people even when they kept the boxes - that can add a couple of hundred quid. The plain white card packing piece fetches around £100 on its own on ebay. Model Railways and kits are mere amateurs when it comes to the value of packaging by comparison. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 16 hours ago, Sarahagain said: I don't know if it is still current, but the Dapol kits (now using the "Kitmaster" name and logo) did have a note to say that they were using a softer, recycled, plastic to lessen the wear on the tools. Certainly, the original Airfix plastic is, in my experience, harder. The transfers can be a bit dodgy in the older kits, aged... We have both older Dapol and Airfix wagons made up, and fitted with other makers bearings, wheel sets, and Parkside NEM mountings with NEM couplings. Airfix Meat Van details. Airfix Cattle wagon (details on previous page to the meat van link above.) Older Dapol 16 ton Mineral Wagon. Details... That took me back! A Kitmaster cattle wagon was my very attempt at building a kit. I think it would have been 1960 when I was 9 yrs, and I think it was 3/6d, about three weeks lawn mowing and pocket money. The big Kitmaster engines were I think 18/9d this being NZ prices, about double the UK shipping, duty, toyshop markups etc. Alas I was not very knowledgeable about glue tried to assemble it with general purpose household adhesive, not polystyrene cement. A complete mess! All wasted, I was in tears, my poor father, equally ignorant of the subtleties of glue technology of the day tried to sooth me, He had a 12hr per day job, and four other kids, but we still got those evenings ... It took a day or two and I was off doing something else, but never forgot that example of life's bitter lessons! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy100 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) On 09/07/2020 at 22:24, robmcg said: I'm also presuming 35028 only ever had a late crest long wheel base tender. Clan Line 35028 ran with a 6000-gallon tender (lwb) November 59 - March 65 and then a 5100-gallon from March 65 to October 65. The current tender is the one that came with the loco when it was bought by the MNLPS from BR. There is a lot of information about M/N tenders - so I stand to be corrected Edited July 15, 2020 by Bulleidboy100 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 there will be a % who you cant call collectors. those that want the foam pads and the tissue paper etc. they might not even be really interested in trains or model railways but want to snap up new models to sit on for a bit until they are no longer widely available to then simply sell at an inflated price with the all the sales hyperbole such as "still in the original outer tissue" or "mint in box". then youve got people like me with no layout but aspire to get something together in the future but have acquired and continue when the right prices come continue to acquire a number of models that once tested and inspected remain in their boxes. im not a collector or a re-seller but then I cant be classed a modeller either at this stage of the proceedings. i'm a hybrid I suppose. one day the models will run in anger.........but a word to those that dont take their new purchases out of the box. you run the risk that the model has a fault and if you hold onto it for over 12 months youll have no come back so always remove them and check the over and if its a loco then at least test it in both directions and the lights/sound etc otherwise you could find yourself owning a rather worthless paperweight. 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellocoloco Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 11 hours ago, ThaneofFife said: then youve got people like me with no layout but aspire to get something together in the future Absolutely agree and I'm in the same category. As soon as son leaves home and mortgage is paid then its train time! I am sitting on around 50 decent boxed locos + the assortment of Hornby/Lima/Mainline from my youth. They all get a run every three or four months - laminate flooring is great for a temp track - and I deal with any issues that come up at the time. Reckon I've only got another ten years of planning and collecting then I'll have to start building! One thing I do that will horrify some - as soon as I put on all the detail parts, I take a knife to the box and modify the packaging so as to reduce the risk of damaging the loco or wagon when taking it from and returning it to the box. It amazes - and pleases me, how many pre-owned locos I have that the previous owner hasn't even looked at the contents of the accessory bag. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted July 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 16, 2020 @ThaneofFife perhaps you need a CAPITAL investment. lol.;) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 On 07/07/2020 at 13:35, melmerby said: Problem with Hornby Dublo is the unstable prices. At one time the EMU was the most expensive, less so now, same with the E3000, I had a well used one and sold it for £100 (a bit more than the 67/6d I paid for it new), some were going up to £900 mint. Now the price has reigned back a bit. Maybe not. Still some asking silly prices: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-Dublo-2245-3300HP-ElectricLoco-E3002-2-rail-pantograph-in-original-box/203040360318?hash=item2f4626077e:g:VecAAOSwp0VesG66 To save everyone's time, that ebay link is for a Hornby Dublo 2 Rail E3002 loco boxed for £954 Just to say that a collector friend of mine has what is believed to be the ONLY factory produced 3 Rail version of that model - made to be run on a promotional HD layout that was 3 rail. I believe ( although I stand to be corrected) that the layout was in Gamages and my friend's father was in charge of it. How much is THAT worth?????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: To save everyone's time, that ebay link is for a Hornby Dublo 2 Rail E3002 loco boxed for £954 Just to say that a collector friend of mine has what is believed to be the ONLY factory produced 3 Rail version of that model - made to be run on a promotional HD layout that was 3 rail. I believe ( although I stand to be corrected) that the layout was in Gamages and my friend's father was in charge of it. How much is THAT worth?????? If genuine quite a lot. Other sources state that the factory didn't produce a single 3 rail version itself but some retailers (e.g. Hattons etc.) were given the correct factory parts to make a few three rail versions from 2 railers. From that it seems Binns Road had started to make all the parts required but decided it wasn't worth putting the loco on sale as a three rail version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 3 hours ago, melmerby said: If genuine quite a lot. Other sources state that the factory didn't produce a single 3 rail version itself but some retailers (e.g. Hattons etc.) were given the correct factory parts to make a few three rail versions from 2 railers. From that it seems Binns Road had started to make all the parts required but decided it wasn't worth putting the loco on sale as a three rail version. You know far more about these things than I do and what you've said seems perfectly feasible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 hour ago, TEAMYAKIMA said: You know far more about these things than I do and what you've said seems perfectly feasible. It's only what I've gleaned from other peoples info. Even they could be wrong. Hattons did seem to have a good relationship with Meccano and acquired loads of stock when they stopped production. They were still advertising Hornby Dublo stuff long after other retailers has sold all theirs. I believe they found some track a few years back before the move from Smithdown Road It would be nice if there was just one factory produced AL1, it would be extremely valuable. I'm not sure how you would prove it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 @robmcg I was interested in your musings regarding your attempts in putting together wagon kits, probably most of us have had that baptism of fire - or if it wasn't the right glue, it was the right glue but in the wrong place! In respect of keeping things in their boxes - here are a load of Airfix wagons that I made up 40 years ago that I kept in their boxes with a couple that hadn't been constructed - kept me busy during lockdown, modifying the minerals to single-sided braked ones: One thing that was a surprise was that the later Airfix ones (don't know about the more recent Dapol ones) is that the parts are inconveniently numbered rather than on the sprue - these will now need to carry loads: Hadn't spotted that before all those years ago! Cheers, Philip 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) The Dapol kit Mineral Wagon I built also had part numbers to carve off, and the round marks from the ejector rods of the moulding tool needed filling. These round marks are also visible on your parts Philip... Edited July 22, 2020 by Sarahagain Added photo That failed to upload before the maintenance shut down on Wednesday ;) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted July 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 22, 2020 I'm working on an Airfix Brake van. It's labelled a limited run. The parts are all bright red. Lots of the parts have the marks from the ejector rods -- even bits with the planking. It has the same painting instructions as the brown plastic version so it may remain to run in the bright red. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) Hi David. The “Limited Production” tag was used on all the Airfix Railway Series at one time. It is not known just how Limited the production was though, as there is no shortage of these kits... As far as I know, BR brake vans were originally painted either bauxite (brown) for vacuum brake fitted vans, or fitted with through pipes for vacuum brakes, as the Airfix kit made up as per the instructions, or grey for those without vacuum brakes, or without through pipes for vacuum brakes. My Airfix Brake Van kit was an older version, moulded in brown plastic. https://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=46770&start=60#p643988 Edited July 23, 2020 by Sarahagain clarification of piped brake vans colour. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 @Sarahagain I decided to be pragmatic about the part numbers and the mould ejector markings. About half of them in the photo have the offending marks so they will now be permanently loaded. At least the choice won't be limited to just coal ............... Cheers, Philip 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Will you be using the supplied moulded load, or making your own? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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