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Hornby R2824 46100 Royal Scot -Pete Waterman Collection


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I’ve been offered a Hornby R2824 46100 “Royal Scot”, part of the Pete Waterman collection  at a reasonable price and I was wondering how good is it?  The model has never been out the box, bar the obvious quick look and it looks great but do they run well?  The reason I ask is that a few people at clubs and shows say that they aren’t great runners, even the more modern ones.

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Here's mine on a 'speed test' - slow one - a couple of years ago: 

 

 

It's a very decent runner but there is a LOT of detailing to be careful of, and tight-fitting motor and wires should you need to remove the body - be very careful.

 

Al.

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My 46100 has been fine.

 

There has been some that have suffered odd breakages and seemed brittle Ive noticed a disproportionate number of naff chassis, or broken bodies on ebay, however these were Rebuilt Patriots (same tooling family) , rather than 46100 Specifically, Ive suffered around 3 that had partly disintegrated (46120 being the only Scot, the rest were patriots), several are reported to have been Mazak affected, in the R263x series releases.
 

I’d say you are fine, as long as it’s on it’s original wheels (second hand people have been known to swap).

 

 

 

 

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I have the Pete Waterman 46201 Princess Elizabeth from the same era.   The body doesn't fix satisfactorily to the chassis, but otherwise no serious problems.  It does get run occasionally, and while it is not as smooth a runner as today's Hornby, its performance is acceptable on analogue (HM2000) control.

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I have 2 Patriots and a Scot (46120). All superb runners and no hint of mazak rot yet. Those that do suffer it seems to be the bracket that holds the motor and worm against the gear. Peters Spares make a replacement part for this so not all is lost anyway. As said above the body is a tight fit to the chassis and early models have the DCC socket in the loco so the body does need to come off. Not sure if 46100 has this or the later tender mount DCC socket. The tender itself is the weakest part of the model visually  - it has the unprototypical 'ledge' between the chassis and the tank and lacks any attempt to model the coal space. 46100 is reasonably rare so I would certainly buy at the right price :)

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The Hornby Re-Built Patriot and Royal Scot models have some excellent qualities but watch for the metal fatigue of the chassis and any other metal parts.    Slipping gears-mis-mesh can often be attributed to weakness around the Crown-Gear Assembly (or Mazak-Rot of the alloy chassis) directly below the brass worm of the motor.   

I have all of the Hornby BR Era models of both the "Royal Scot" and "Patriot" classes produced and it's been an unpleasant learning-curve with the Mazak-Rot affected models.   I owe a great deal of thanks to all at Hornby, and I mean everybody that I have communicated with in various forms.   I think they, and the wife, know how much I've spent!!  ;-))

The motor-fixing design needs some slight modification...I say this because the worm-gear cover, although small, has to perform at least three functions.   It is there to retain oil/grease splashes within the gear-area, the ear-flaps hold-down the axle of the Crown-Gear Assembly and the rear under-part of the worm-cover places pressure down on the motor front-bearing case.   The worm-gear cover is, unfortunately, too weak for its purpose.

Presently trying to *find* the time to renumber/rename all the Patriots (rebuilt and un-rebuilt) to the Welsh resorts that they were named after, and there are quite a few on the map!   Well, I realised how much I like the three classes and realised just how many of the models I actually had, more than the Black 5 collection and there's at least sixteen of them.   

It certainly does appear to be a slow, smooth-running, loco' so what's stopping you..??

 

Cheers,

Heiter  :-)

 

Edited by Heiter
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You know what they say about he who hesitates, well I did (less than 24 hours) and he sold it to someone else.  I’m not annoyed because he needed the money due to Covid-19.

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1 hour ago, rembrow said:

Don't know if it helps, but there are some good prices for the last release of the Scot in BR late emblem green, The Ranger R3558, I bought one recently from Bure Valley Models 

Thats reminded me of the one thing that frustrates me with the Hornby Scot (and the Patriot) - the nameplates are about 10% overscale so attaching etched plates isnt as easy as it could be and entails removal of the splasher and judicious cutting and and filing. 

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On 12/08/2020 at 15:35, Heiter said:

The Hornby Re-Built Patriot and Royal Scot models have some excellent qualities but watch for the metal fatigue of the chassis and any other metal parts.    Slipping gears-mis-mesh can often be attributed to weakness around the Crown-Gear Assembly (or Mazak-Rot of the alloy chassis) directly below the brass worm of the motor.   

I have all of the Hornby BR Era models of both the "Royal Scot" and "Patriot" classes produced and it's been an unpleasant learning-curve with the Mazak-Rot affected models.   I owe a great deal of thanks to all at Hornby, and I mean everybody that I have communicated with in various forms.   I think they, and the wife, know how much I've spent!!  ;-))

The motor-fixing design needs some slight modification...I say this because the worm-gear cover, although small, has to perform at least three functions.   It is there to retain oil/grease splashes within the gear-area, the ear-flaps hold-down the axle of the Crown-Gear Assembly and the rear under-part of the worm-cover places pressure down on the motor front-bearing case.   The worm-gear cover is, unfortunately, too weak for its purpose.

Presently trying to *find* the time to renumber/rename all the Patriots (rebuilt and un-rebuilt) to the Welsh resorts that they were named after, and there are quite a few on the map!   Well, I realised how much I like the three classes and realised just how many of the models I actually had, more than the Black 5 collection and there's at least sixteen of them.   

It certainly does appear to be a slow, smooth-running, loco' so what's stopping you..??

 

Cheers,

Heiter  :-)

 

Heiter,

 

Do you have any suggestions to address the weak worm gear cover.  I have a number of patriots and Scots, one of which just came back from Hornby after repair; am wondering what proactive steps I can take to prevent future problems?

Thanks,

Steve

Edited by sjp23480
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31 minutes ago, sjp23480 said:

Heiter,

 

Do you have any suggestions to address the weak worm gear cover.  I have a number of patriots and Scots, one of which just came back from Hornby after repair; am wondering what proactive steps I can take to prevent future problems?

Thanks,

Steve

Nothing can be done to guard against mazak 'rot' apart from crossing the fingers :)

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I had to replace a twisted chassis.  Major nightmare job.  I did get it back together and it ran beautifully.  A short while later the rhs valve gear disintegrated!  Might have been related, but I don't think so.  They seem a very fragile model

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Having read what people have put, it seems I’ve dodged a bullet.  The model itself looks great but if the chassis is or isn’t suffering from Mazak rot, I don’t need the worry.

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8 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

Heiter,

 

Do you have any suggestions to address the weak worm gear cover.  I have a number of patriots and Scots, one of which just came back from Hornby after repair; am wondering what proactive steps I can take to prevent future problems?

Thanks,

Steve

 

Hiya Steve,

 

The worm-gear cover comes with the chassis which is only available through Hornby.    Have you contacted Hornby for replacement(s)...??   

The only other option really is to make your own...quite easy really if you measure the gap at the top and bottom of each side/flap.  

It needs to be strong but don't forget to allow for the downward pressure each side on the crown-gear-axle (Double Gear or two different sized gears..the A4 was an issue as two different sizes and shape of was used).   Do the top once you've done the two sides.   The sides, if you're careful with a saw and/or file, will allow for this downward pressure to hold the Crown-Gear assembly in place...you don't want any sloppy up-down movement of the assembly between the worm and the axle-drive.

Now the fun... ;-)    

You may probably know that a slight bend in the motor back-plate will endorse pressure against the back of the motor but you will also need to make and fix a bracket between the chassis and the top or top-front of the motor casing to create firm downward pressure..without this firm downward pressure it will again allow play between the worm-gear and crown-gears.   

Hornby really do need to improve on this motor-fitting arrangement as it's been causing issues for years!

Hope it's been of some help... Good luck.. :-)

 

 

Edited by Heiter
Couple of missed words
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Or you could buy a new loco from Bure Valley Models.

 

Call our hotline on 01263 733 858 for all enquiries and orders

We deliver to anywhere in the UK

Hornby - R3558 - BR Royal Scot 46165 "The Ranger" BR Green Late

£ 128.00Saving £42.99 (25.14%) on RRP (£170.99)

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Availability:

In Stock

Stock Level:

1

Delivery Options:

Available for delivery Available for collection.

Opening Hours

Everyday 09.00 to 17:00
Closed:
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01263 733 858

[email protected]

 

Safe & Secure Ordering

© Bure Valley Railway

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On ‎14‎/‎08‎/‎2020 at 12:57, sjp23480 said:

... any suggestions to address the weak worm gear cover...

This poor mechanical design is all over the first six years of steam loco introductions which Hornby produced with Sanda Kan, until  the Britannia introduction which had a competent motor retaining system.

 

Relieve it of the job by glueing in the motor. I use Evostick (original delightful petroleum vapour aroma formula) which makes a more than strong enough bond, brute force will release a failed motor should that need arise. While doing this tinkering, also check if the chassis block is in the conduction path; and if it is eliminate this shoddy bodge to isolate the block from the rails, and solder a wire connection to the pick up wiper.

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23 hours ago, Heiter said:

 

Hiya Steve,

 

The worm-gear cover comes with the chassis which is only available through Hornby.    Have you contacted Hornby for replacement(s)...??   

The only other option really is to make your own...quite easy really if you measure the gap at the top and bottom of each side/flap.  

It needs to be strong but don't forget to allow for the downward pressure each side on the crown-gear-axle (Double Gear or two different sized gears..the A4 was an issue as two different sizes and shape of was used).   Do the top once you've done the two sides.   The sides, if you're careful with a saw and/or file, will allow for this downward pressure to hold the Crown-Gear assembly in place...you don't want any sloppy up-down movement of the assembly between the worm and the axle-drive.

Now the fun... ;-)    

You may probably know that a slight bend in the motor back-plate will endorse pressure against the back of the motor but you will also need to make and fix a bracket between the chassis and the top or top-front of the motor casing to create firm downward pressure..without this firm downward pressure it will again allow play between the worm-gear and crown-gears.   

Hornby really do need to improve on this motor-fitting arrangement as it's been causing issues for years!

Hope it's been of some help... Good luck.. :-)

 

 

Thanks Heiter

 

I have a spare chassis block and gear cover from Peters Spares, so am going to give that a go. If that doesn't work I will fall back on your suggestions. 

 

Thanks again,

Steve

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On 15/08/2020 at 13:34, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

This poor mechanical design is all over the first six years of steam loco introductions which Hornby produced with Sanda Kan, until  the Britannia introduction which had a competent motor retaining system.

 

Relieve it of the job by glueing in the motor. I use Evostick (original delightful petroleum vapour aroma formula) which makes a more than strong enough bond, brute force will release a failed motor should that need arise. While doing this tinkering, also check if the chassis block is in the conduction path; and if it is eliminate this shoddy bodge to isolate the block from the rails, and solder a wire connection to the pick up wiper.

Thanks 34tlbB&D!

 

Will look out for the conduction path. I have a new chassis block from Peters Spares as the original has rotted.   If the new cover fails to do the trick I have a big tub of Evo Stick that should do the job!

 

Thanks again

Steve

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