Popular Post LNER4479 Posted August 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) Hi - me again! Welcome to a layout project that I'm helping out with on behalf of my good friend Paul Bolton. Paul is on here but prefers to spend his time modelling (fair enough!) although is happy for me to post on his behalf. I think it's worth sharing as there's something emerging here that is worthy of a wider audience, particularly as it'll never leave home. Aah - the much-missed Midland Railway mainline through the heart of the Peak District! Perchance it sleepeth? A favourite subject matter for modellers - and no wonder. Viaducts, tunnels and stunning scenic vistas abound, all set on a relentless incline that ensured entertainment for the lineside observer and enthusiast traveller alike. It was famously used in the 1948 exchange trials and was a favourite for the MR / LMS / BR (LMR) to test out their latest creations, thanks to the locomotive super power of Derby being at its southern end. It must have been in the aftermath of completing and exhibiting Shap at Warley (Nov 2017) that Paul and I had a conversation about a layout project of his own (perhaps enthused by the LMR stock we'd just assembled?), he never having had much more than a shunting plank to call his own. I was very happy to assist as some form of pay back for Paul's tireless work on Grantham and Shap. The garage was available for the layout, giving a space approx 16' by 9.5' and the remit was pretty broad - essentially a roundy-roundy to enjoy trains running through attractive scenery with a through station and a branchline to run to an existing branchline terminus he'd previously built. Exploring options, ideas, likes / dislikes a bit further led to the fatal question: 'How about the Midland mainline through the Peak District?' I well remember the O gauge layout that used to run at the Slaters place at Matlock Bath. Although not in any way intended to be any sort of copy, it did nevertheless include two of the most iconic places on the route, namely the expansive 5 platform station at Millers Dale and the iconic crossing of the river Wye at Monsal Dale. Millers Dale was a effectively a junction station (for Buxton, more or less its raison d'etre) - tick! Paul was therefore more than happy for me to get to work on a trackplan. This is what I came up with: I never was very good with computerised drawing programmes. Pencil and graph paper works perfectly well for me! It's a roundy-roundy - and then some! It's essentially a looped eight, one of my favourite designs as you can get double your bang for your buck. It does involve gradients but - hey - they're de rigeur for the Peak route and Paul was being realistic about train length. Starting in the fiddle yard (top) and going clockwise, trains initially climb before passing through a condensed (inevitably) but otherwise reasonably accurate portrayal of Millers Dale - certainly the track formation at the north end is as it was. Beyond the station, the descent starts as the lines cross the distinctive twin viaducts and go out of sight round a tight 180deg curve. They then emerge out of Headstone tunnel and on to the famous viaduct (not actually shown on the plan). Keen students of the line will already be yelling that 'he's going the wrong way!' Yes, tis true but visually it'll be just as effective and neither of us are overly concerned about such trivialities. It gets worse(!) as, once off the viaduct, the lines then gradually morph into the scene at Chee Dale, entering the short tunnel No.2 at this point (and thus once again travelling in the Derby-bound direction), across the dramatic Chee Dale bridge before plunging into tunnel No.2 to end the scenic section. Trains are now at 'level 0' and remain so as they pass underneath Millers Dale, behind the viaducts scene, climbing a little to rejoin the fiddle yard tracks where we set off from. The branchline part of the remit is satisfied by the junction right-hand end where the Buxton push-pull trains can chuff off to and up a fierce little gradient to reach the branchline terminus top left. The Monsal Dale scene is so aligned to provide just enough space for an operator to be in the top left area to look after the BL terminus and the fiddle yard. For further interest, and to capture another feature of the area, there will be a further branch setting back from this terminus to reach a limestone quarry top right. Right, so progress to date: July 2018 and here's the man himself, surveying the site of the layout. This day I was assisting with the panelling out of the walls with polystyrene insulation, covered with plasterboard. I can confirm from subsequent winter visits that it's nice n cosy in there with the heater on. October 2018 and Paul was cracking on with the baseboard supports. Seen here top left is the existing BL terminus, placed in position just for now. It's due to the fact that it has its own 2x1 supporting framework that the branchline has to climb up quite steeply to meet it but should be OK with just two coach trains and empty limestone wagons heading for the quarry. March 2019 and Paul's not hanging about with the tracklaying either! If you look closely, you can see my time-honoured track alignment pins in position as it's visually important that this scene is a gentle sweep of reverse curves. This of course is where the Monsal viaduct is going - note the reduced width of the trackbed in the middle of the chasm. The same day and we ended up with a freakish Don Henley double-fret guitar-shaped piece of plywood - the 'double fret' is in fact the two Millers Dale viaducts! And seen here in position. Again the alignment pins show up quite nicely. They were essential to cut the viaduct bases accurately. We're in roughly the 'classic' viewpoint of Millers Dale station in its wider setting - plenty of inspirational pictures taken from this view point. More to follow, as work has progressed further, but I'll leave it there for now. Edited August 26, 2020 by LNER4479 31 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsalDan Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 I remember speaking to you about this at Warley. It's a great location, very excited to see this develop :) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 Only a week later after the March 2019 visit outlined above, Paul sent me these two brief pieces of video to celebrate a train travelling round the complete circuit for the first time: The smooth alignment over the viaduct shows up particularly well; that looks good for the future. More to add soon ... 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted August 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2020 Clever to manage to fit this into such a short space. Look forward to seeing it progress. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LNER4479 Posted September 4, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 4, 2020 So, with trains running, time to turn attention to some of the key features of the layout. They don't come much more iconic than this five arch viaduct. Using the drawing in the Hudson book, combined with the measurements on site, I produced this template of the Monsal Dale viaduct, which is scaled down slightly (but not too much) from the true size it should be. A quick check in position on site. And half an hour or so's careful work with the jigsaw produced this. There's two pieces of 6mm ply temporarily screwed together here. Arguably, the rear one, on the outside of the curve should be marginally longer but you won't notice that on such a gentle curve. Yours truly now fixing them in place. And the first train across, posed in position. Viewed from the more classic angle, this should hopefully be quite an impressive scene once fully scenicked. One more post, from the recent visit, and we'll be up-to-date (the above was from January this year, pre-Covid). 26 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AireValley1962 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) Oooh, I love this section of the Midland. Following with interest! Edited September 7, 2020 by AireValley1962 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Looking fantastic, of course! Of particular interest is the looped figure-of eight, which I have in mind for a Waverley Route setting, not so dissimilar from the stunning Monsal - Miller's line in that both rely on conveying a 'Big Country' vibe. I'm extremely comforted by the capacity of a standard-width garage to accommodate appropriate radius curves suited to a main line. Excellent work and following with jaw-dropping fanboy fervour! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 Thanks. The off-scene curves are quite tight in places, probably down to approx second radius / 18in, so only really suitable for RTR as opposed to finer kit built stock. I'll try and remember to take some pix to illustrate next time I'm there. However, the nature of the prototype, with its abundant tunnels comes in quite handy in this respect - some would apply to the Waverley route, of course. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 36 minutes ago, LNER4479 said: Thanks. The off-scene curves are quite tight in places, probably down to approx second radius / 18in, so only really suitable for RTR as opposed to finer kit built stock. I'll try and remember to take some pix to illustrate next time I'm there. However, the nature of the prototype, with its abundant tunnels comes in quite handy in this respect - some would apply to the Waverley route, of course. Indeed, us Waverlites have less luxury in tunnel terms (or do we - Whitrope, Ladhope, Bowshank and Torwoodlee), but nonetheless the line's NBR counterpart, the Perth Direct, has Glenfarg's wonderful juxtaposition of viaduct, A-road, river and tunnel that could conceivably be interwoven as a scenic device. I like the way your plan by its own admission sends trains 'the wrong way,' and my equivalent work-around is to base mine on an interpretation of a prototype that saw the navvies drive the head of steel via Langholm, Mosspaul and Teviothead on their way northwards. This way I can use licence to have a tunnel/ bridges/ road and river combination in the real life vicinity of Ewes Farm (much like at Shankend on the real thing). Anyway, time to stop hijacking your magnum opus, sit back and enjoy!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted September 7, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 7, 2020 Monsal Dale and Headstone Viaduct, what's not to like! Al. 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrock Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 So this is why the updates on Hills of the North have slowed down is it?!! This looks like another cracker - I too am quite interested in the dimensions as whilst we have an internal double garage, I’m hoping to only take up half of it... What sort of length trains will be able to be run, both in terms of looking right on the scenic sections and being able to handle the gradients? Thanks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
apbolton Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Ideally 6 coaches but The Palantine runs with 7 but then it is a premier service. Mainly so that when the front of the train is on the viaduct, the rear end clears the tunnel. Although I have only tried a few loco's so far my Patriot and Black 5's have no problem hauling 6 up the bank. P 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrock Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Thanks. That’s very positive news as that’s the length I’m looking at too. Really looking forward to seeing this develop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LNER4479 Posted September 11, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 11, 2020 (edited) And so to the final update from me for now to get us up to date. These pics from a couple of weeks ago. We concentrated on the scenery structure for the Chee Dale area (top right of the plan in the opening post). A 8' x 4' sheet of 9mm ply was awaiting me, from which these initial lateral cross-section pieces were cut, having created some initial card templates. What you see here are the series of tunnels in this area, namely the short Chee Tor No.2 tunnel between the left hand and central formers, the Chee Tor bridge between the central and right hand formers and then the entrance to the longer Cheer Tor No.1 tunnel, beyond which the tracks curve round off scene. Beneath, incidentally, can be seen the multi-level lift out section that goes across the inside of the main garage door. And a few hours later, now all cut to final shape and fastened down for keeps. Pictures show the land falling quite steeply over No.2 tunnel, the river turning through 90 degrees to flow alongside in a most dramatic fashion, so this is what we've tried to replicate here. It also 'works' in terms of the design of the layout as the separate piece of the layout beyond, climbing up to the BLT, is at a higher level anyway. At the same time, we started to give some thought to the intended quarry scene which will go roughly above where the empty cereal packets are. A view more at track level, using a handy Britannia to give a sense of scale - hopefully this shows the 'towering landscape' effect that we're after. The section of railway onwards (in the direction of travel of the loco) will then merge into the northern approach side of Monsal Dale viaduct (even though it's in the 'wrong' direction!) as the overall configuration of the land is the same, with the river again on this side on the valley floor. And a first glimpse of the Chee Tor bridge scene which is of course momentary for a speeding train. It's going to take a fair ol' bit of imagination to 'lose' the river valley in the short space behind but it'll look a bit more convincing I think once the full landscape shell is in place. This view both shows how the two scenes are related and also some splendid work Paul has already done on cladding the viaduct. There's enough room for a six coach train to 'breath' within the scene, I think? At risk of stealing a little bit of Paul's thunder, here's a quick snap of some of his recent building work for Millers Dale. I think this goes under the title of 'making the most of lockdown'! Anyhow, I know that Paul is standing by with some other pics of his building work; more from me after the next visit - I've otherwise used up all the pics in my 'archive' now. Thanks for interest so far. Edited September 11, 2020 by LNER4479 20 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted September 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 11, 2020 On 09/09/2020 at 23:58, apbolton said: Ideally 6 coaches but The Palantine runs with 7 but then it is a premier service. Mainly so that when the front of the train is on the viaduct, the rear end clears the tunnel. Although I have only tried a few loco's so far my Patriot and Black 5's have no problem hauling 6 up the bank. P Do you want a list of locos which ran this way? Lots of research for Chapel en le Frith .... Layout looks very nice.. Bas 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
apbolton Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Hi Baz Yes please a list would be useful. Cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted September 12, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 12, 2020 13 hours ago, apbolton said: Hi Baz Yes please a list would be useful. Cheers I will dig it out ..but a hint..Jubilees , 4Fs and Black 5s.... Baz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
apbolton Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Yes Jubilees are what I need, got a couple of 4F's and Black 5's, cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Certainly looking forward to watching the progress, and maybe one day soon, seeing the Blue Pullman cross that Viaduct. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bell Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Has the look of something very special in the making 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 65179 Posted September 12, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Barry O said: I will dig it out ..but a hint..Jubilees , 4Fs and Black 5s.... Baz To really have a bit of fun run it as 1948 and have the last Claughton or, for those preferring cream to faded red muck,1954 and have a GWR streamlined railcar. Simon Edited September 12, 2020 by 65179 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) 1948 saw the locomotive exchange trials so you could have a Hall, B17 and Bulleid Pacific. Fairly sure I've seen a picture of a J39 on a football special. Also fairly sure the Beyer Garratts were seen on the line as far south as Rowsley. Edited September 12, 2020 by Anglian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 65179 Posted September 12, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 12, 2020 A B17 would have been anything but fun for the crews given their roughriding, but wasn't it B1 61251 used for the trials? A Beyer-Garratt was tried once over the Peak. Presumably the only time one went north of Rowsley that way. It didn't do a lot for its brakes on the way down! Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemonkey presents.... Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 Fabulous construction and a lovely layout planned. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 65179 Posted September 12, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) I'll stop filling up this thread with random stuff that distracts from the modelling shortly, but this article from the Manchester Locomotive Society on Buxton shed is interesting for anyone looking at motive power in the area: http://www.manlocosoc.co.uk/buxton-shed.pdf Cbeagleowner of this parish and I came up with a 48-68 back of a fag packet list for Millers Dale/Peak Forest a while back. It had: Midland 2F Midland 3F Midland 4F LMS 4F (including with snow hood tender) 7F Super D 8F WD 9F Crosti Ivatt 2MT Ivatt 4MT Crab Black 5 (All flavours) Standard 5 (Walschaerts and Caprotti) B1 MR 2P LMS 2P MR 3P MR 4P LMS 4P 5XP Rebuilt Scot (1949 and then late '50s) Britannia LNWR 2-4-2T Johnson 0-4-4T Stanier/Lemon 0-4-4T Stanier 2-6-2T (one daily Mcr-Buxton and return in 1950) Fowler 2-6-4T Stanier 2-6-4T Fairburn 2-6-4T LMS twins Fell Cl24 Cl25 Cl28 Cl44 Cl45 Cl47 Derby Lightweight Railbus (Park Royal or the German ones) Cl108 Midland Pullman Rarer diesels 10800 10203 Hymek on test? (South from BP to Chinley, but not sure how far beyond) Cl17 GWR streamlined railcar Cl40 perhaps when they were first tried on the hoppers? Rarer steam: Patriot (17A's 45509 made occasional appearances on Derby-Manchester services in the 1950s, 45518 (8A) worked one St Pancras-Manchester in 1960) Rebuilt Patriot (observed workings correspond with the 1959-1961 period when both Trafford Park and Kentish Town (the sheds sharing most StP-Mcr working) had Patriots allocated e.g. 45522 and 45540) Stanier crab Claughton 6004 (one Buxton bound freight from the South in 1948) West Country (Barnstaple) Hall O4 (certainly O4/8) J39 J11? The last 3 LNER classes plus J10s would have made it to Gowhole routinely. The first 3 more so after Belle Vue closed and Gorton took on its workings. Further south is a rather different story. Barry's list is no doubt longer still! Simon Edited September 16, 2020 by 65179 clarification reflecting later discussion 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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