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West Wales passenger trains in the 70's and 80's


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Hi there, 

 

On perusing a few books I have on South Wales in the mentioned era along with the ubiquitous class 120 on local trains there are pictures of loco hauled passenger trains some are only 3 coaches long and I assume they are dmu replacement services. 

 

What I would like to know is was there any regular loco hauled passenger trains apart from the London services and if so how was the catering dealt with as I cannot see any buffet coaches in the pictures I have. 

 

Many thanks in advance. 

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If you can find any second-hand copies of the 1H80 / Loco-Hauled Travel series of spotters' books, they should give a picture of all planned loco-hauled passenger services.

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I lived in Llanelli from 1955 to 1973, subsequently returning to visit for a couple of decades more. I don't remember any loco-hauled trains, apart from the Fishguard boat trains and the daily Milford postal/beds, in the period when I lived there.

It was only in the early/mid 1980s when Class 33s would work regular passenger workings; these were part of diagrams that included workings from Crewe to Cardiff, and Cardiff to Portsmouth. These didn't have any catering facilities.

 

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14 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

I lived in Llanelli from 1955 to 1973, subsequently returning to visit for a couple of decades more. I don't remember any loco-hauled trains, apart from the Fishguard boat trains and the daily Milford postal/beds, in the period when I lived there.

It was only in the early/mid 1980s when Class 33s would work regular passenger workings; these were part of diagrams that included workings from Crewe to Cardiff, and Cardiff to Portsmouth. These didn't have any catering facilities.

 

Thank you. 

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4 hours ago, rka said:

Hi there, 

 

On perusing a few books I have on South Wales in the mentioned era along with the ubiquitous class 120 on local trains there are pictures of loco hauled passenger trains some are only 3 coaches long and I assume they are dmu replacement services. 

 

What I would like to know is was there any regular loco hauled passenger trains apart from the London services and if so how was the catering dealt with as I cannot see any buffet coaches in the pictures I have. 

 

Many thanks in advance. 

 

Are you a member of:-

.

The Facebok group - "Railways in South Wales" which takes in West and part of Central Wales.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1481784582093228

.

There are a number of  members, like "Fat Controller" who are clued up on the West Wales area.

.

If you wish to join, you MUST answer the set questions, and then get past the moderator - but he ( me for one ) can be bought !

.

Brian R

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Landore had a number of steam heat class 37’s which worked scheduled services in West Wales during your period. ETH fitted Class 33’s replaced the 37’s in the early 80’s which migrated north to Scotland. West Wales services were shared with DMU’s, if you want specific details of what was booked loco haulage you need to get Loco Hauled Travel As has been suggested previously. I don’t recall there being any catering on these trains. 

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I spent a week during the summers of 1975-76 travelling the railways of West Wales. Some local services were booked for loco haulage, with classes 37, 47 and 52 featuring. Great entertainment climbing out of Swansea.

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Loco-Hauled Travel 1982-83 has some 33 diagrams, such as these on a weekday:

1 - Carmarthen-(Milford Haven-Swansea)x2, ending up at Bristol

2 - Portsmouth-Bristol-Cardiff-Swansea-Milford Haven-Swansea

3 - Swansea-MH-Swansea-Fishguard-Swansea-MH-Swansea

and some on a Sunday.

 

And also four separate weekday for 47s W of Swansea, including MH and Fishguard.

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6 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

Loco-Hauled Travel 1982-83 has some 33 diagrams, such as these on a weekday:

1 - Carmarthen-(Milford Haven-Swansea)x2, ending up at Bristol

2 - Portsmouth-Bristol-Cardiff-Swansea-Milford Haven-Swansea

3 - Swansea-MH-Swansea-Fishguard-Swansea-MH-Swansea

and some on a Sunday.

 

And also four separate weekday for 47s W of Swansea, including MH and Fishguard.

That's a few more than I remembered seeing  in the period up to 1973. From 1966 to 1973, I was at Llanelli Boys' Grammar, many of whose classrooms overlooked the line west of Llanelli. The Chemistry Lab was a particular favourite, as it was on the first floor, and the teacher had very little control over the class. Especially welcome was the lesson just before the mid-day break, as there was the Down Motorail, followed by an Up tanks. 

There was one working which looked as though it must have been diagrammed, at about 11:30. 'Six-eighter', Three-car 120 set and a van of tail traffic. If I'd seen it once, I'd have said it was a failed unit, but I saw it several times.

There was quite a lot of van traffic, usually in CCTs or GUVs, though I have seen photos of a loco-hauled service with a 'Pipe' wagon on the back, leaving Milford Haven. 

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I have the following West Wales documents for 1971-1972, a  (i) WTT , (ii) CWN and (iii) DMU diagram book.

.

There are very few loco-hauled workings save the through trains from Paddington to Milford Haven and/or Fishguard Harbour.

.

Of interest may be the following

.

1C23 21:30 MO Paddington - Milford Haven (MX, to Cardiff only ?) , and/or

1C26 01:05 MX Bristol - Milford Haven.

This working 'reversed' at Swansea, departing at 04:12, where we can (hopefully) assume a Cl.37 came on.

The train was generally formed BSK+SK+CK+BG, albeit, it left Paddington with several Siphon G vans and a GUV.

However,  the Bristol train also conveyed a POS, which on Mondays only was attached at Cardiff.

.

The interesting thing about this diagram, are the next turns,

2C33 07:40 Milford Haven - Carmarthen, and

2C86 17:20 Carmarthen - Milford Haven, 

.

This diagram then became;

1A63 19:15 Milford Haven - Paddington (with a reversal and loco change at Swansea 21:38-21:48)

.

Consider also this SO summer dated diagram which ran from 12.6.1971 - 4/9/1971

5C74 SO Swansea - Whitland ECS, arriving at 07:40, which then formed

2C74 08:02 Whitland - Pembroke Dock arr. 09:05

1A87 09:18 Pembroke Dock - Paddington arr. 14:48

This diagram was formed as follows, using air braked stock:- BFK+FK+FK+FO+RB+TSO+TSO+TSO+TSO+BG

.

Brian R

 

Edited by br2975
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6 hours ago, br2975 said:

I have the following West Wales documents for 1971-1972, a  (i) WTT , (ii) CWN and (iii) DMU diagram book.

.

There are very few loco-hauled workings save the through trains from Paddington to Milford Haven and/or Fishguard Harbour.

.

Of interest may be the following

.

1C23 21:30 MO Paddington - Milford Haven (MX, to Cardiff only ?) , and/or

1C26 01:05 MX Bristol - Milford Haven.

This working 'reversed' at Swansea, departing at 04:12, where we can (hopefully) assume a Cl.37 came on.

The train was generally formed BSK+SK+CK+BG, albeit, it left Paddington with several Siphon G vans and a GUV.

However,  the Bristol train also conveyed a POS, which on Mondays only was attached at Cardiff.

.

The interesting thing about this diagram, are the next turns,

2C33 07:40 Milford Haven - Carmarthen, and

2C86 17:20 Carmarthen - Milford Haven, 

.

This diagram then became;

1A63 19:15 Milford Haven - Paddington (with a reversal and loco change at Swansea 21:38-21:48)

.

Consider also this SO summer dated diagram which ran from 12.6.1971 - 4/9/1971

5C74 SO Swansea - Whitland ECS, arriving at 07:40, which then formed

2C74 08:02 Whitland - Pembroke Dock arr. 09:05

1A87 09:18 Pembroke Dock - Paddington arr. 14:48

This diagram was formed as follows, using air braked stock:- BFK+FK+FK+FO+RB+TSO+TSO+TSO+TSO+BG

.

Brian R

 

Thank you<

In the book "the power of the class 37's" there is a picture of a train on Cockett bank which consists of what looks like a BCK a sleeper coach, a SK/SO,BG and a couple more MK1's which I cannot make out, does this seem like a normal rake?

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I had a week's Rover ticket covering lines west of Swansea in August 1984. It seemed the Swansea to Pembroke Dock services were DMUs, often 101s at that time although I recall a suburban set (116/117/118) although I didn't record which. A 101 expired and got towed back from Tenby by a 37!

The Milford Dock and Fishguard services were loco hauled, I saw 47s on 4-5 Mk1s from Swansea, plus HSTs on a couple of London through trains. Most trains reversed at Carmarthen (and Swansea if going further afield). The Milford and Pembroke line services ran independently to/from Swansea in most cases, whereas in the past the Pembroke line services ran to Whitland and connected with Milford services.

There were also summer Saturday through trains from London and York to Tenby/Pembroke, which were much longer sets. 
There was still some freight to the docks plus MoD traffic to Milford and Trecwn; cement and fertilizer at Carmarthen, plus the coal traffic from the Gwendreath valley line and plenty of oil from the various refineries around Milford Haven. I believe there was a TPO to Camarthen, with the postal vans being detached there and passenger services going on to Milford and a connection to Pembroke Dock. Milk services from Whitland and Camarthen finished in the late 70s.

I toyed with the idea of a layout based on these ideas, but it would need space for the HSTs plus oil trains!

 

Edit to add: I've a very well worn copy of 'The railways of Pembrokeshire' by John Mirris, published in 1981 which covers the histories of the lines and includes the fact  a Motorail service ran to Fishguard up until 1980 

Edited by Ramblin Rich
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I have posted these pictures before, but they are relevant to this thread. They show the 01:10 Bristol-Milford Haven in 1973. It started off from Bristol behind a Western, but a 37 took over at Cardiff and different 37 took it from Swansea.

SEP 73 04. 6884 at Haverforwest with the 0110 Bristol-Milford Haven, July 31 1973

 

SEP 73 05. 6884 at Haverforwest with the 0110 Bristol-Milford Haven, July 31 1973

 

SEP 73 06. 6884 on arrival at Milford Haven with the 0110 from Bristol, July 31 1973 SEP 73 07. 6884 runs round at Milford Haven, July 31 1973

 

SEP 73 08. 6884 waits at the platform with the 07:15 to Carmarthen while another Class 37 departs from Milford Haven with the 06:52 parcels to Haverfordwest, July 31 1973

 

SEP 73 09. 6884 waits to depart from Milford Haven with the 07:15 to Carmarthen, July 31 1973

 

SEP 73 10. 6884 departs from Milford Haven with the 0715 to Carmarthen, July 31 1973

 

And here is one from earlier in the year - March I think - showing a departure from Swansea at about lunch time. I don't remember if it was a passenger working. Perhaps br2975 knows what 1Z54 indicated.

FEB 73 08. 6892 passes Swansea Loop West with a train for West Wales, 1973

 

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2 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Edit to add: I've a very well worn copy of 'The railways of Pembrokeshire' by John Mirris, published in 1981 which covers the histories of the lines and includes the fact  a Motorail service ran to Fishguard up until 1980 

There is a 2008 edition much revised and expanded by Richard Parker, which I would thoroughly recommend.

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10 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said:

Perhaps br2975 knows what 1Z54 indicated.

 

As shown by your previous pictures and from my personal experience of West Wales in the 70's and 80's, other than the oil trains, headcodes were a figment of everyones imagination!

 

Mike.

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The Bristol to Milford overnight train was a booked steam heat 37 turn for many years in the late 70's and early 80's. The inbound service originated as the 21XX from Swansea to Bristol returning at 01XX to Milford Haven. I had 3 different 37's on this in June 1981, Bristol to Swansea, Swansea to Carmarthen and Carmarthen to Milford Haven and return. Peter Watts Publishing headcode books are helpful when it comes to identifying loco hauled trains. In 1H80 for instance it shows the following weekday trains

 

0124 Bristol to Milford Haven returning as

0730 Milford to Swansea

0940 Milford to Swansea (am guessing stock of the 2205 ex Pad)

2205 Milford to Paddington with sleeping car and reverse working 0050 Paddington to Milford. The sleeper that ended up at Milford was tripped back to Swansea I think for servicing hence it appearing on daytime trains

 

1020 Swansea to Carmarthen (I am guessing then ECS to Fishguard)

1205 Swansea to Fishguard 

1618 Swansea to Milford Haven (I am guessing the stock for the 2205 to Pad)

2115 Swansea to Fishguard

2125 Swansea to Bristol 

 

0200 Fishguard to Paddington (reverse working 2120 Ex Pad)

1320 Fishguard to Swansea

1450 Fishguard to Swansea

 

Not a huge number of trains but there were only about 10 steam heat 37's to cover them. 

 

Edited by young37215
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The Platform 5 June 1981 Motive Power Pocket Book shows 37175-192 inclusive as boiler-fitted, plus oddly 37247, split between LE (mostly) and CF. 

 

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