RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2021 p.s. If you want to assemble them at the prototype 6ft way (44.67mm centres), you would need to interlace the bases like this: Note that such spacing is not suitable for sharp double-track curves, the overhang from bogie vehicles on adjacent tracks would collide. But if you have gentle curves, the closer spacing does look better. The timbering above is not very prototypical, that's just using the bases unmodified. Wayne has said that he intends to produce kits for crossovers, with the correct prototypical long timbers. Martin. 1 3 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 For those wanting something more prototypical quickly with longer timbers, there would be a need to either replicate the longer timbers after the rail joints for about 5 timbers, or the first few sleepers will need interlacing until the sleepers fully separate This is a view of a piece I have built showing the first part of the track panels are on long timbers for the first 5 sleeper positions, the rails in these 5 timbers are temporary, as the next track panels will have the first 5 sleepers omitted then slid into position A closer shot showing in this example how the longer timbers have been used. It is highly likely you could splice either C&L or Exactoscale parts to replicate this. I am certain if you ask nicely most of us who use these parts would be happy to supply the odd few parts required if you cover the postage and parts costs, if you wanted the longer timber version, interlacing panels is just a simple process 5 2 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Wayne I believe has a cross over in planning so these issue will all be taken care of. His N gauge range has one already. Keith 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2021 54 minutes ago, KeithHC said: Wayne I believe has a cross over in planning so these issue will all be taken care of. His N gauge range has one already. Ah, but at what centres? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Ah, but at what centres? You have ask Wayne that question. Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2021 17 minutes ago, KeithHC said: You have ask Wayne that question. As he reads this topic, by posting it in response to your post, I have. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 2 hours ago, hayfield said: For those wanting something more prototypical quickly with longer timbers, there would be a need to either replicate the longer timbers after the rail joints for about 5 timbers, or the first few sleepers will need interlacing until the sleepers fully separate This is a view of a piece I have built showing the first part of the track panels are on long timbers for the first 5 sleeper positions, the rails in these 5 timbers are temporary, as the next track panels will have the first 5 sleepers omitted then slid into position A closer shot showing in this example how the longer timbers have been used. It is highly likely you could splice either C&L or Exactoscale parts to replicate this. I am certain if you ask nicely most of us who use these parts would be happy to supply the odd few parts required if you cover the postage and parts costs, if you wanted the longer timber version, interlacing panels is just a simple process What a cracking idea. Replace some of the timbering with C&L product. Thanks very much. Any idea which thickness of timbering would match the Finetrax turnouts? Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunnan Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, RBAGE said: What a cracking idea. Replace some of the timbering with C&L product. Thanks very much. Any idea which thickness of timbering would match the Finetrax turnouts? Bob I have a pile of C&L turnout timbers, once my order arrives I’ll check as I’ll be doing the full length timbering for a crossover; unless anyone else is in a position to check sooner. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Freeman Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Crossovers come in varying track centres so a specific crossover may not be the answer. To answer the question, scale thickness timbers will be necessary, i.e. thick e.g. 1.5mm or thereabouts. Likewise standard REA geometry will not suit all, neither will standard 3 bolt chairs. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Stephen Freeman said: Likewise standard REA geometry will not suit all, neither will standard 3 bolt chairs. Beggars cannot be choosers! If you want pointwork appropriate to your particular location and period, it's unreasonable to expect it on a plate. It's the compromise of "near enough". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 hour ago, RBAGE said: What a cracking idea. Replace some of the timbering with C&L product. Thanks very much. Any idea which thickness of timbering would match the Finetrax turnouts? Bob For longer timbers the Exactoscale ones are best, but the thicker C&L ones are a good match. Also C&L and Exactoscale 3 bolt chairs are more or less compatible you could always cut the chairs in half removing the part below the rail at worst, but in practice they should be fine. The difficult part is hiding the splice joint, careful use of filler should work. If I join two together I do it under a rail so the rail and its chair hides the joint. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 21 minutes ago, hayfield said: For longer timbers the Exactoscale ones are best, but the thicker C&L ones are a good match. Also C&L and Exactoscale 3 bolt chairs are more or less compatible you could always cut the chairs in half removing the part below the rail at worst, but in practice they should be fine. The difficult part is hiding the splice joint, careful use of filler should work. If I join two together I do it under a rail so the rail and its chair hides the joint. Thanks for the good advice. I wondered about removing some of the timbering from the kit, as necessary, and replacing them with C&L full length timbers, so no need for splicing. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 I would say unless you are experienced in track building, don't bother. As Martins diagram has shown it will make little difference if you just align the timbers together by separating them a few mm. Then add some timbers to replace the appropriate number of timbers. Just work out the least invasive method. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Asterix2012 Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2021 I believe in practice timbers may have been spliced in some cases on the prototype. Can someone with more knowledge comment? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Just now, Asterix2012 said: I believe in practice timbers may have been spliced in some cases on the prototype. Can someone with more knowledge comment? The ones I have seen were in the middle of the tracks and could be modelled anyway in the longest timbers whether needed or not Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2021 20 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said: I believe in practice timbers may have been spliced in some cases on the prototype. Can someone with more knowledge comment? Yes. Halved and spliced on site, with an old fishplate bolted across the joint. Easily (but rarely) modelled. However, that normally applies only where a very long timber is needed. Normally there would be no shortage of standard 19ft-6in timbers to span ordinary double-track. Also you wouldn't have several spliced timbers side-by-side, just an odd one or two. It's not ideal practice. The timbers are pressure-creosoted but it penetrates only an inch or so. Halving them for a splice exposes untreated wood, and makes a water trap. A splosh of fresh creosote doesn't last long. The spliced joint will rot faster than the treated timber. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 hour ago, martin_wynne said: The timbers are pressure-creosoted but it penetrates only an inch or so. When did pressure creosoting come in, as opposed to just soaking the sleepers in a bath of the stuff? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: When did pressure creosoting come in, as opposed to just soaking the sleepers in a bath of the stuff? See first few minutes: 4 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold unravelled Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2021 With some trepidation, I have just put my first kit together. I shouldn't have worried, as it all worked very well. I think I managed to break the centre pillar off one of the check rail chairs, feeding in my first check rail, but that is all that went wrong. I haven't soldered the bonding wires yet, in case I decide to do some dismantling before installation. The base feels scarily flimsy at the start of construction, but the final product feels fine. The biggest problem I have had so far is a failure to print out the scale drawing, as none of my installed pdf readers seem to want to do tiling. My next move is to get the A3 printer down from the attic. One thing I am contemplating is running a continuous length of rail through two adjoining turnouts, to aid alignment and reduce the number of rail joints. Would this be a bad idea? I'm looking forward to seeing the range expand, and placing the next order. In the meantime, I will improve the lighting and magnifier on my bench, and build the second kit. Thanks Dave 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Interesting, I thought the creosote went all the way through.....I checked in the reprint of the GWR Track Topics, which I'm sure is on your shelf, but it didn't mention the penetration. However they were vacuum soaked which sounds different to the LMS method of high pressure steam. I presume the vacuum encouraged the creosote to penetrate into the wood when released..... Also I didn't realize that the LMS used lag screws for chairs and the GWR used bolts with nuts on top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, unravelled said: The biggest problem I have had so far is a failure to print out the scale drawing, as none of my installed pdf readers seem to want to do tiling. My next move is to get the A3 printer down from the attic. In Acrobat Reader (which hopefully you have installed...?), click the Print button then click the "Poster" tab/button. Make sure tiling scale is 100%. Edited May 21, 2021 by Harlequin 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2021 32 minutes ago, unravelled said: The biggest problem I have had so far is a failure to print out the scale drawing, as none of my installed pdf readers seem to want to do tiling. Hi Dave, Here's a PDF from Templot of matching templates. It will print 2 pages on A4 paper. Just trim to the red lines and stick together. N.B. make sure to set 100% , No Scaling. The grid lines on the print should be exactly 50mm square. Martin. finetrax_00_b7.pdf 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold unravelled Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2021 3 hours ago, martin_wynne said: Hi Dave, Here's a PDF from Templot of matching templates. It will print 2 pages on A4 paper. Just trim to the red lines and stick together. Many thanks for that Martin. I did attempt to create a template on Templot this afternoon, but the settings I chose gave slightly different timbering which didn't match the base, (and your pdf). Even so it was probably the most productive I've been on Templot so far. Now, armed with your pdf, I can go ahead and make up some planning templates. Thanks again Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, unravelled said: Many thanks for that Martin. I did attempt to create a template on Templot this afternoon, but the settings I chose gave slightly different timbering which didn't match the base, (and your pdf). Hi Dave, Yes. Wayne decided to reduce the crossing entry slightly. Do this: 1. in the other gauges list, select 00-D0GAI 2. set a B-7 turnout click template > V-crossing settings... menu item 3. click fixed at... Click OK. 4. set the entry to 14.0mm The template will then match. cheers, Martin. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold unravelled Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2021 That's much better, but I still have a slight discrepancy (<0.5mm) in the length. I will try again from scratch over the weekend. The only difference I can see is my smallest radius is 1294mm, slightly larger than that in your screenshot. It's nothing I'm bothered about at the moment, your pdf template will be more than good enough for my planning. But this has given me the incentive to put some more effort into learning Templot. Thanks Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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