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Hornby 2021 - 4 & 6 wheel period coaches


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I think it's a bit cheeky from Hornby going after Hattons Genesis coaches this year, but I'll still be ordering a set of the NBR ones to go with my NBR J36. The only thing holding me back from the Hattons coaches was lack of Scottish variants until Batch 3 with CR, so happy to put an order in for these. I don't think they look as detailed or as well thought out as the Hattons version, but they seem to be pushing them out quickly.

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1 hour ago, spamcan61 said:

Indeed it's difficult to see these as a positive development for the hobby.

 

On Contraire.

 

The introduction of a range of freelance 4 and 6 wheel coaches has encouraged interest in pre group modelling and resulted in... another range of freelance coaches. 

 

This is no more positive or negative a development than the previous lot

 

Craig W

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Subject to a more sensible price I’ll be picking up the terrier train pack. £299 is a bit steep, but I did notice that there were other errors on the slides (Tornado was noted as 60103 at one point)  so I live in hope of a typo. 

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I suspect that the intention was to produce some Stroudley coaches when Hattons announced their range of generic coaches.  This would most likely have affected sales of the Hornby coaches so a decision was made to turn them into generic.

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2 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

Be nice if the had a suitable small tank engine to go with each livery.  The GW terrier and GWR coaches is a bit off the wall!

Agreed. My initial thought was, "...and they even produced a train pack with a Terrier" - but not Southern or LBSC. Meanwhile, over in Railroad, SE&CR fans can look forward to a nice (cough) E2. :blink:

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2 minutes ago, Mark Dickerson said:

Agreed. My initial thought was, "...and they even produced a train pack with a Terrier" - but not Southern or LBSC. Meanwhile, over in Railroad, SE&CR fans can look forward to a nice (cough) E2. :blink:

 

I'm sure there is logic behind it all...maybe...?

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5 minutes ago, Edge said:

Subject to a more sensible price I’ll be picking up the terrier train pack. £299 is a bit steep, but I did notice that there were other errors on the slides (Tornado was noted as 60103 at one point)  so I live in hope of a typo. 

 

I was wondering about that. It's not sound fitted is it?

 

Can't think of any other reason why it's approximately £100 extra apart from a typo. Not really interested in the carriages, I would probably past them on, possibly to my nephew if he showed interest in them.

 

But I would have bought the Terrier if it was a reasonable price.

 

 

Jason

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11 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

I suspect that the intention was to produce some Stroudley coaches when Hattons announced their range of generic coaches.  This would most likely have affected sales of the Hornby coaches so a decision was made to turn them into generic.

 

The Hattons carriages were announced on 8 October 2019; @Islesy (who from previous posts I gather to be involved with Hornby's product development in some capacity) has stated above that Hornby measured up preserved carriages in the following November. 

 

I don't understand the need for measuring up preserved vehicles - which often differ in significant ways from the carriages as built, especially in respect of underframes and running gear - when original drawings are available, as they are for many carriages of the 1880s and 90s, along with period photographs.

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13 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Well, to wildly misquote Oscar Wilde, "To duplicate one product is unfortunate, to duplicate five* looks like a strategy"

 

* Cavalex Class 90, Rails Terrier, Rails Rocket coach, Dapol Large Prairie, Hattons coaches.

Also Bachman 9F, Dapol Die-Cast?

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The fact is if the hattons model is better (lighting and other niceties) they don't need to worry. The Hornby model will sell well as it can reach other shops that perhaps the hattons model won't. Pity they can't use the efe distribution route as that bridge is burnt. Good luck to both as I'm sure they'll be in profit. 

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12 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I was wondering about that. It's not sound fitted is it?

 

Can't think of any other reason why it's approximately £100 extra apart from a typo. Not really interested in the carriages, I would probably past them on, possibly to my nephew if he showed interest in them.

 

But I would have bought the Terrier if it was a reasonable price.

 

 

Jason


Think if it was sound fitted then it would have been advertised from the start. I assume that the coaches are the all singing and all dancing lit versions, so the £299 price tag makes no sense.
 

To be honest £199 makes my eyes water a bit, but I can see that the value of the contents warrants that price.

 

im a Warhammer modeller in another life and I’ve just come off paying £90 for a single figure (damn you import charges) so I can take the rough with the smooth on pricing until I reach a flat ‘nope’ :)

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20 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Well, to wildly misquote Oscar Wilde, "To duplicate one product is unfortunate, to duplicate five* looks like a strategy"

 

* Cavalex Class 90, Rails Terrier, Rails Rocket coach, Dapol Large Prairie, Hattons coaches.

The problem is, what do you do if you have these in planning and development with a lot of money sunk into them, and then someone else announces one as well?

The Rocket coach is an example. They never said it was not coming. Rails decided to do that on their own and then Hornby showed that theirs had already been under development for a while.

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Perhaps I've misinterpreted but it looks like Hornby are doing only one number for each coach type (albeit with lit and unlit versions). A bit of a shame if so as I'm sure many wold buy more to make up a longer rake than 4 or 5 carraiges, as is facilitated by Hattons, especially with liveries like NBR and LSWR which are further down the line with the Genesis range. That said, the numbers are quite small and unobtrusive, but surely it can only increase sales to have some variety?

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The whole Hornby strategy appears to be directly competing in the hope it will crush the opposition .  Yet in doing so they’re missing open goal after open goal in their bid to score points.

Why no SECR 100-seater ( 1918 through to preservation) to go with the ‘H’?  Or a Manor, or an all-new Class 47?

And on the wagon front why no 13T LMS high or correctly proportioned van?

How can this blind head-to-head mentality make commercial sense?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Era2&1 said:

Perhaps I've misinterpreted but it looks like Hornby are doing only one number for each coach type (albeit with lit and unlit versions).

The Thirds have two numbers for all except the NBR, which has a Composite instead of a second Third.

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3 minutes ago, Chuffed 1 said:

Why no Manor, or an all-new Class 47?

And set themselves up in direct competition with Dapol and Heljan (respectively)? Actually Hornby competing with other manufacturers seems to be becoming normal these days...

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2 minutes ago, Chuffed 1 said:

The whole Hornby strategy appears to be directly competing in the hope it will crush the opposition .  Yet in doing so they’re missing open goal after open goal in their bid to score points.

Why no SECR 100-seater ( 1918 through to preservation) to go with the ‘H’?  Or a Manor, or an all-new Class 47?

And on the wagon front why no 13T LMS high or correctly proportioned van?

How can this blind head-to-head mentality make commercial sense?

 

 

 

So you are complaining about Hornby competing with others then suggesting a Manor and Class 47.....

 

:scratchhead:

 

Both announced recently from others.

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5 minutes ago, Chuffed 1 said:

The whole Hornby strategy appears to be directly competing in the hope it will crush the opposition .  Yet in doing so they’re missing open goal after open goal in their bid to score points.

Why no SECR 100-seater ( 1918 through to preservation) to go with the ‘H’?  Or a Manor, or an all-new Class 47?

And on the wagon front why no 13T LMS high or correctly proportioned van?

How can this blind head-to-head mentality make commercial sense?

 

 

Because at least the Manor and 47 are also being done by someone else.

 

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Just dug out my copy of Mike King's Southern Coaches Survey where there is a chapter on LB&SCR six-wheeled stock.

 

Going by the numbers on the SR liveried stock we have:

 

SR No 7514 32ft 4-compartment 1st - SR Diag 507/508/509

SR No 1908 32ft 5-compartment 3rd - SR Diag 63

SR No 1909 32ft 5-compartment 3rd - SR Diag 63

SR No 3750 32ft 3-compartment Brake 3rd - SR Diag 176/177

 

Going by the elevations in the book for each of the above diagrams the Hornby coaches seem spot on for the panelling arrangements. As already pointed out earlier in the thread the models lack the distinctive LB&SCR "tall" grab rails at each doorway replacing them with a more generic type.

 

The four wheel brake from Hornby seems to be completely generic as SR No 762 was a Billington 30ft 6 wheel Guards Van with a central ducket (SR Diag 901). 

 

 

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I got mixed thoughts about it all.

 

For literally decades a lot of modellers have been screaming for convincing RTR 4 wheelers (&6) and Hattons finally decides to.

 

Then it seems as usual Hornby copy them.

 

Yeah ok, the competition isn't wrong but it's damn anoying, especially when it is done so often.  RoS Terrior, Hattons 66 etc etc.

 

Also we can't be sure Hornby didn't start the project before Hattons yet it's pretty obvious what the likely truth is.

 

Maybe Hornby could have gone for the accurate rather than generic to have a USP on them.  Maybe they could have made some that are more distinctly different.

 

Other than the full brake coaches they look to be mostly copies.

 

Ah well.

 

I'll be sticking with my Hattons pre-order, not going to cancel for a wee undercut.  Lately Hornby are showing themselves to seem overly dirty here.  Isn't like it's a rare move is it?  Again, not wrong as such, just anoying with the frequency.

 

If the Hornby ones are still available in a few years at similar prices might pick a few up.

 

The markit will decide collectively which win out I guess.

Edited by Knuckles
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24 minutes ago, Mr chapman said:

The fact is if the hattons model is better (lighting and other niceties) they don't need to worry. The Hornby model will sell well as it can reach other shops that perhaps the hattons model won't. Pity they can't use the efe distribution route as that bridge is burnt. Good luck to both as I'm sure they'll be in profit. 

Reconciliations can occur surprisingly quickly if both parties come to think it a good idea.

 

Especially if a common adversary emerges.....

 

John

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9 hours ago, Chuffed 1 said:

One point for the more knowledgeable, did many 4w and 6w coaches last long enough for crimson livery?

In passenger traffic, very few lasted into BR days, and fewer still long enough to need/justify  receiving new paint.

 

Hatton's pick of mainly ones with Departmental markings seems apposite.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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