Hornby Announce L&MR 0-4-2 "Lion"?

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Mine is BR black and suits my 1958-62 S&D-line interests,

 

Um... the last 1532 Class 0-4-4T was withdrawn in 1956. 

 

10 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I don't consider that particular loco needs a fancy paint job to make it irresistible....

 

Indeed. Nevertheless it looks vey nice in LNWR livery!

[johnd]

4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Um... the last 1532 Class 0-4-4T was withdrawn in 1956. 

 

 

Indeed. Nevertheless it looks vey nice in LNWR livery!

 

Heresy LNWR !   Nah its a Midland engine !  and the last one went for scrap in1959.

Edited March 22, 2021 by johnd

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, johnd said:

 

Heresy LNWR !   Nah its a Midland engine !  and the last one went for scrap in1959.

 

I'm sorry but no, the last survivors were of the 2228 Class: 58085 in April 1959 and 58086 in August 1960. The 2228 Class was visually distinguished from the 1532 Class by the larger-capacity tanks and bunker, which were 3" taller, and the 3¾" higher pitch of the boiler. 

[Hroth]

10 hours ago, RyanN91 said:

So this beautiful locomotive is due in 2022 I can probably guess the cover artwork for the 2022 catalogue then since Hornby centenary in 2020 and this years 2021 the cover designs this decade has been very beautiful illustrated paintings watercolours drawings prints etc!

 

attached Photo  © David Heys collection 2021 | All Rights Reserved.

 

A rather romanticised view, of the chocolate box/jigsaw puzzle school.

 

Lion was built in 1838 as what was called a "luggage" engine, so it was a goods loco, or at best what would now be called mixed traffic.  It probably wouldn't have had bystanders admiring it as it chuffed by with a train of carriages, it would be rather more realistic to picture it conveying a load of cotton manufactures from Manchester to Liverpool for export.  Or like a "dirty British coaster", a cargo of Tyne coal, road-rails, pig-lead, firewood, iron-ware, and cheap tin trays.

 

And the interior of the bridge arch looks like its supposed to be the skew bridge at Rainhill, while the rest of the bridge appears to be rather more at right-angles to the track!

 

Apart from that, it would make a nice box top for a "Lion" train set!

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Hroth
random editing for readability....

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, Legend said:

For me there are huge amounts of models to spend money on . I got carried away last year and ordered Rocket .  It has been round the layout but looks a bit incongruous sitting beside all my other locos, so now sits in my book case as an expensive ornament . I think its unlikely Lion will be joining her . 

Me too,

ive not enough room on my shelf.

I took the commercial route and cashed out, both (Red and Yellow box), once I saw them announce a third one so soon.

 

Too many too quick always ends up discounted eventually & I can wait... I wont need 3 rockets, so will just buy the mail coach one.

With 2 Lions to pick from, means I don't have to rush either.

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by adb968008

[Dunsignalling]

47 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I'm sorry but no, the last survivors were of the 2228 Class: 58085 in April 1959 and 58086 in August 1960. The 2228 Class was visually distinguished from the 1532 Class by the larger-capacity tanks and bunker, which were 3" taller, and the 3¾" higher pitch of the boiler. 

Though I don't think 58086 had been used much for about a year prior to its official withdrawal.

 

I must admit that 58072 is a bit of a stretch, but most people looking at it won't be aware of the difference.

 

John

Edited March 22, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[RyanN91]

I wonder if The Lion will be just the locomotive on its own, or as a train pack? And what Rocket rolling stock it will include that is now available? Or if there will be a separate coach pack of either a set of any named variants of a set of 3 of the first class carriages? Or a 3 coach pack of the remaining two first class coaches with the Royal Mail coach so then the Lion can compliment the 2021 Rocket Train pack and the additional L&MR, Flat Bed Wagon pack and the L&MR Open Carriage pack.

[The Johnster]

There's potential to increase the Period 1 biodiversity here; Lion was what was called at the time a 'Luggage' engine, the progenitor of what would become the later Victorian 'Goods' and 20th century 'Mixed Traffic' genres.  Coupled wheels in the early days were not used for 'fast' (by the standards of the day) passenger work, and Lion would have been seen hauling goods and the heavier passenger traffic at medium speeds.  Stephenson had by that time suggested that locomotives for main line work should be carried on 6 wheels, and this rapidly developed into 2-2-2s like Patentee for fast passenger work, 0-4-2s like Lion or 2-4-0s for general merchandise goods, and 0-6-0s for mineral work where haulage was more important than speed. 

 

So, perhaps Lion could be sold in a set with open goods vehicles and vans, or 'carriage trucks', flatbed wagons on which the gentry travelled in their own carriages rather than mixing with the great unwashed in first class.  This would mean that a proper period L & M layout would be possible, or a period 1 freelance.  Main line coal traffic was not always carried in Stockon and Darlington type 'chauldron' wagons, and was an early example of containerisation, being loaded on to wagons in wooden boxes of a standard size that could be transferred to and from horse drawn flatbeds.  These are referred to in the Gauge Commission enquiry, as the Broad Gauge wagons were more efficient and could carry more boxes.

 

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

On 22/03/2021 at 10:52, PhilJ W said:

Is the lady on the right pregnant?

As far as I can see, no pregnant people, at least not visibly pregnant...

[Coach bogie]

On 22/03/2021 at 12:18, Hroth said:

 

A rather romanticised view, of the chocolate box/jigsaw puzzle school.

 

Lion was built in 1838 as what was called a "luggage" engine, so it was a goods loco, or at best what would now be called mixed traffic.  It probably wouldn't have had bystanders admiring it as it chuffed by with a train of carriages, it would be rather more realistic to picture it conveying a load of cotton manufactures from Manchester to Liverpool for export.  Or like a "dirty British coaster", a cargo of Tyne coal, road-rails, pig-lead, firewood, iron-ware, and cheap tin trays.

 

And the interior of the bridge arch looks like its supposed to be the skew bridge at Rainhill, while the rest of the bridge appears to be rather more at right-angles to the track!

 

Apart from that, it would make a nice box top for a "Lion" train set!

 

 

Way back in the 1980's, I made a box for my  Dad's to keep his K's Lion and 1970's Hornby coaches and put this picture I took of Lion mainline, on the lid.

Unfortunately, I could not convince the crowd to wear period costume, and there was no photoshop back then.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[mozzer models]

A Quote form todays Engine Shed

(This is all the information we can share with you at present - prices, delivery timescales and the specification of this new '00' gauge model have yet to be confirmed. We will of course keep you updated!)

 

To me this Sound like we only started working on it when we heard  Rapido we going to do it

 

 

[MGR Hooper!]

3 minutes ago, mozzer models said:

A Quote form todays Engine Shed

(This is all the information we can share with you at present - prices, delivery timescales and the specification of this new '00' gauge model have yet to be confirmed. We will of course keep you updated!)

 

To me this Sound like we only started working on it when we heard Rapido we going to do it

 

Or they just don't have completed CAD and prices worked out (which is what Simon Kohler said) just yet. Sharing CAD and prices at an early stage isn't a sensible idea. It gives your competition a chance to up their game and undercut their prices.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, mozzer models said:

A Quote form todays Engine Shed

(This is all the information we can share with you at present - prices, delivery timescales and the specification of this new '00' gauge model have yet to be confirmed. We will of course keep you updated!)

 

To me this Sound like we only started working on it when we heard  Rapido we going to do it

 

 

I think quite a few of us had got very close to that conclusion even before today....

 

John

[JSpencer]

BTW Kernow are still showing L&M single 3rds at £17 each in stock, so if you want one for Lion, there is still a chance.

[InterCity80s]

2 hours ago, mozzer models said:

A Quote form todays Engine Shed

(This is all the information we can share with you at present - prices, delivery timescales and the specification of this new '00' gauge model have yet to be confirmed. We will of course keep you updated!)

 

To me this Sound like we only started working on it when we heard  Rapido we going to do it

 

 

To be fair to Hornby, they also said in today's Engine Shed:

The model was originally due to be announced in our 2022 range launch, but here you have an early teaser!

I guess we'll never know the full truth but it looks more to me that they were rushed into an announcement by the Rapido model rather than they decided to produce the model in response to it.

[Edwardian]

41 minutes ago, InterCity80s said:

 

I guess we'll never know the full truth 

 

That's for sure!

[Butler Henderson]

The "truth" might be evident by the catalogue number which seem to be issued when  a model / version of a model is given the go ahead rather than when released. The highest catalogue numbered loco is R30089 TFW Class 67 but some R38xx and R39xx catalogue numbers appear for the first time; if they were allocated when catalogued then R30003-R30089 would cover all the new additions (assuming all R38xx and R39xx numbers had been used)

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, InterCity80s said:

I guess we'll never know the full truth but

 

You want the truth?  You can't handle the truth...

4 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Or they just don't have completed CAD and prices worked out (which is what Simon Kohler said) just yet. Sharing CAD and prices at an early stage isn't a sensible idea.

Or both, the two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

[MikeOxon]

When I started writing about my pre-grouping models almost 10 years ago, it seemed to be something of a niche field.  Now the RTR market is becoming flooded with 6-wheel carriages!  About 5 years ago, I started modelling the GWR broad gauge so, how long before we see 7' 0¼" baulk-road Flexitrack ?

[Chris116]

25 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

When I started writing about my pre-grouping models almost 10 years ago, it seemed to be something of a niche field.  Now the RTR market is becoming flooded with 6-wheel carriages!  About 5 years ago, I started modelling the GWR broad gauge so, how long before we see 7' 0¼" baulk-road Flexitrack ?

The GWR Broad Gauge track will be announced by Newby Manufacturing in about five years time on that basis. 

 

 

And by Hornby three days later! 

[Compound2632]

41 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

7' 0¼" baulk-road Flexitrack ?

 

I'd like to see how they do that. 

[MikeOxon]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I'd like to see how they do that. 

Intelligent nanoparticles, I expect

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

When I started writing about my pre-grouping models almost 10 years ago, it seemed to be something of a niche field.  Now the RTR market is becoming flooded with 6-wheel carriages!  About 5 years ago, I started modelling the GWR broad gauge so, how long before we see 7' 0¼" baulk-road Flexitrack ?

On that basis, would you mind producing a 4mm Collett 1938 31xx, 2721 to a decent standard, and Diagrams N and A21/22 (Taff Vale) auto trailers for me, please....

[The Johnster]

1 minute ago, MikeOxon said:

Intelligent nanoparticles, I expect

I'm not 'avin that!  It's bad enough that my phone is smarter than me; I'm not putting up with it from track!

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, The Johnster said:

On that basis, would you mind producing a 4mm Collett 1938 31xx, 2721 to a decent standard, and Diagrams N and A21/22 (Taff Vale) auto trailers for me, please....

Just get a mate to announce it as a completely new company with a few flashy photos and lots of info and Hornby will instantly claim  that it's 'their' model (getting that right for once) and theirs will be in the shops in 18 months time and two quid cheaper than yours.   All you need is a flash website, some good photos and the right sort of blurb and you're in business.

 

On 26/03/2021 at 15:22, MGR Hooper! said:

Or they just don't have completed CAD and prices worked out (which is what Simon Kohler said) just yet. Sharing CAD and prices at an early stage isn't a sensible idea. It gives your competition a chance to up their game and undercut their prices.

When Hattons 'announcement bounced Hornby into announcing their revised 'King' there was a similar sort of timescale between the rushed response on Farcebook and the originally intended  announcement date.  In fact i think 'Lion' might actually be a bit nearer to the 2022 date than the  'King was to its original announcement date but the King was rushed to announcement with already worked up design drawings (although we didn't see all of them) and a hastily scrarmbled together (it was rumoured) price tag but as far as 'Lion' is concerned it has just been words, not even a drawing.

 

I don't doubt that Hornby had 'Lion' in their programme and as I've said before I even hinted that it might come for 2021 but the response to Rapido seems to indicate it is nowhere near as advanced as the 'King was in the year before originally planned announcement.