Cambrian steel wagon kits

[JN]

Hi,

 

Kind of excited now...

 

My Cambrian BBA wagon kits (OO) have arrived, so I'm now able to make my first foray in to wagon kit building. I know they're plastic, but that's what was available for what I wanted (also most wagons are plastic, so I liked the idea of having similar textures on a layout). The idea of brass kits gets me even more nervous as the idea of soldering brass parts together frightens me a bit - I burnt myself on a soldering iron when I was at school. Also, I don't really have a special workbench at the moment, either, so soldering isn't really practical. I can deal with the fumes as I can open a window. Living in a one-bedroom and one lounge/dining room flat does mean the soldering fumes might stay in the furniture etc and, as I've said, I'm worried more about a soldering iron (more worried than a bottle of glue).

 

They're cheaper than the RTR and give me something positive to do that isn't just sitting in front of a computer screen. Something I can tell my mates about in the pub when they ask, "what have you done with your time today?" That tells them a bit more about my personality than "I watched another Douglas Murray video on YouTube". I can also make my wagons whilst I listen to podcasts*, tv (I'm a bit of a Corrie fan and interested in current affairs) or listen to my music in the lounge.

 

I don't know why I chose BBAs other than liking steel trains. I'll be able to run them on my Dad's Crewe/Chester/Shrewsbury layout with 37s, 56s and 60s as per http://www.penmorfa.com/Wrexham/index.html (I like early 1990s BR too) whilst I sort out my garage and get it ready for a model railway - you'll see my general idea on Mr Pix's layout thread.

I'm tempted to paint, fix transfers and weather (maybe I could paint on the weathered look?) before I put all the parts together. I painted and fixed transfers on after making the plane kits. What would you recommend - paint and transfers first or construction then paint and transfer first? Airbrushing, as with soldering, isn't really possible even if it is better. My garage is currently unattached to the mains and whilst I can get a non-fuelled generator (might be useful in power cuts too). I'm also having to get a new garage door due to the lock being broken (as well as probably having to get a new garage floor or at least have it tiled etc). Urgh, so what brushes would you recommend?

 

I know, rather I believe, I will do okay even if I have 'first time in ages/something new' nerves. As well as railway modelling I made a couple of Airfix aircraft kits when I was younger and they went well especially the smaller planes (they were all 1:72).

 

"It came, it finally came!"

 

Hope you're well.

Regards,

Jonny

 

*if anyone is interested Neil Oliver has a good podcast about the UK from ancient times to the present day - some the content is recycled, but I like history as well as steel trains...

[JN]

I've just realised I should have asked, what colours should I be buying? I can name the general colours (black body and bogies, orange or red ends? with a white stripe, yellow bearing boxes), but if someone knows the accurate colour that would be appreciated..

http://www.penmorfa.com/Wrexham/three.html

http://www.penmorfa.com/Wrexham/four.html

http://www.penmorfa.com/Wrexham/five.html

http://www.penmorfa.com/Wrexham/eight.html

http://www.penmorfa.com/Wrexham/ten.html

 

I think the first photo on page 10 will be most useful for me, but . Given I've found that I have to buy new, I might as well get the right, or at least the closest possible, colours.

 

I've decided to paint and then construct - there are parts that are too intricate to paint after construction. I've also decided to weather after painting.

[JN]

I have bought the following from Humbrol:

Dunkel Grunn Matt - SKU: AA2253

Matt Orange - SKU: AA0905

Matt White - SKU: AA0374

Matt Yellow - SKU: AA0761

Metallic Black - SKU: AA6392

Some people might prefer other paints, but these are the paints that look right to me.

 

I still have a couple of other kits to make and, I can repaint if the colour is massively wrong. Furthermore, other people, who are wondering about the colours for the livery etc might come across this post...

 

What are the best transfers to use? This is much less urgent as I can put these on at the end.

[Sofisticat]

Railtec make the transfers that you will ned for the Cabrian BBAs:
https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=4505

If you are planning on painting them in the Railfreight livery of the 80's then I have heard that Halfords make a Ford Carnival Red which is very good colour match. Not tried it personally as I live too far south of the equator to get my hands on any. I am interested to see how you get on with the builds as I am thinking of getting a batch of BAAs due to the crazy prices that Bachmann are asking for the next release of these wagons.

[BernardTPM]

I used Ford Carnival red on some N Gauge A.B. models I made back in the mid-80s, then later used some Railfreight red to paint a Ford Escort model...

[JN]

11 hours ago, Sofisticat said:

Railtec make the transfers that you will ned for the Cabrian BBAs:
https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=4505

If you are planning on painting them in the Railfreight livery of the 80's then I have heard that Halfords make a Ford Carnival Red which is very good colour match. Not tried it personally as I live too far south of the equator to get my hands on any. I am interested to see how you get on with the builds as I am thinking of getting a batch of BAAs due to the crazy prices that Bachmann are asking for the next release of these wagons.

Thanks for that, Sofisticat, but I'm reluctant to use spray paint because of my mentioned living arrangements. However, its good to say - other people might looking for advice might find this thread helpful.

[37501]

Good morning Jonny,

 

I built 3 Cambrian BBA wagons so can offer the following advice:

1. Build first, using a suitable plastic kit glue, and then paint, apply decals and weather.

2. I glued long strips of aluminium to the underside in order to strengthen the wagon. Also, small offcuts of mild steel to add weight, Araldite works well with these metal add ons. 

3. I had to manufacture brackets which allowed the fitting of Kadee couplings. 
4. i would recommend applying aerosol plastic primer before spray painting your choice of top coat. Mine was Bauxite. Decals need a gloss finish for best results. Again, a spray can of varnish from Railmatch. Finally, dull down with Matt varnish and weather. 
5. A very nice wagon to build and a satisfying result. I am happy to run mine with the exquisite Cavalex RTR ones. I hope this helps.

 

John

[JN]

9 hours ago, 37501 said:

Good morning Jonny,

 

I built 3 Cambrian BBA wagons so can offer the following advice:

1. Build first, using a suitable plastic kit glue, and then paint, apply decals and weather.

2. I glued long strips of aluminium to the underside in order to strengthen the wagon. Also, small offcuts of mild steel to add weight, Araldite works well with these metal add ons. 

3. I had to manufacture brackets which allowed the fitting of Kadee couplings. 
4. i would recommend applying aerosol plastic primer before spray painting your choice of top coat. Mine was Bauxite. Decals need a gloss finish for best results. Again, a spray can of varnish from Railmatch. Finally, dull down with Matt varnish and weather. 
5. A very nice wagon to build and a satisfying result. I am happy to run mine with the exquisite Cavalex RTR ones. I hope this helps.

 

John

Thanks for that, John. I just thought the 'painting first' would allow me to not get (say) the white of the brake wheel on to the bogie. Impressive look, though and I'll keep your post in mind. Thanks again.

[37501]

Hi Jonny,

Glad to be of help. On painting the brake wheels, cut a small slot in a piece of paper and slip this behind the wheel. This way you won’t get white paint on the bogie.

Still on the brake wheels. I drilled a very small hole in the back of them and glued in a piece of thin wire. Attach to the bogie by drilling a similar hole and gluing in place. This locates the wheels and makes them less prone to being knocked off. 

 

John

[JN]

On 16/06/2021 at 19:25, 37501 said:

Hi Jonny,

Glad to be of help. On painting the brake wheels, cut a small slot in a piece of paper and slip this behind the wheel. This way you won’t get white paint on the bogie.

Still on the brake wheels. I drilled a very small hole in the back of them and glued in a piece of thin wire. Attach to the bogie by drilling a similar hole and gluing in place. This locates the wheels and makes them less prone to being knocked off. 

 

John

Thanks for the tips. I'm still on the building and its not going all that well. Anyway, I'm going to carry on because if nothing else the practice will be good for the next one and the one after that and so on.

[TRAILRAGE]

On 16/06/2021 at 09:05, 37501 said:

Good morning Jonny,

 

I built 3 Cambrian BBA wagons so can offer the following advice:

1. Build first, using a suitable plastic kit glue, and then paint, apply decals and weather.

2. I glued long strips of aluminium to the underside in order to strengthen the wagon. Also, small offcuts of mild steel to add weight, Araldite works well with these metal add ons. 

3. I had to manufacture brackets which allowed the fitting of Kadee couplings. 
4. i would recommend applying aerosol plastic primer before spray painting your choice of top coat. Mine was Bauxite. Decals need a gloss finish for best results. Again, a spray can of varnish from Railmatch. Finally, dull down with Matt varnish and weather. 
5. A very nice wagon to build and a satisfying result. I am happy to run mine with the exquisite Cavalex RTR ones. I hope this helps.

 

John

 

Wow that looks really good. Mine are definitely way to clean! 

 

Cheers Trailrage

[JN]

Sorry. I hid away from it all when I made a flop at trying to build my first two. I have about five more kits to try with. The only thing I think I got right was the Railfreight Orange - I was going to use the original colours as 'primer' and have weathering to go over.

[wagonbasher]

On 11/11/2021 at 02:36, JN said:

Sorry. I hid away from it all when I made a flop at trying to build my first two. I have about five more kits to try with. The only thing I think I got right was the Railfreight Orange - I was going to use the original colours as 'primer' and have weathering to go over.

Hi

 

Do you know where you went wrong?

 

I have made some Cambrian BBA’s and BAA’s.  I built them for Black Country Blues when we first started and I knew we were incorporating a steel works exchange sidings.  They rarely ran on the layout because in my hast I didn’t realise that they were not really a feature of Black Country steel traffic.

 

You have picked a difficult  kit to cut your wagon building teeth on. The fact the main floor comes in two halves, tricky bogies, I changed the bogies so they pivot on brass bolts rather the plastic arrangement as supplied.

 

It might be wise to try a straight forward 4 wheel wagon first, maybe someone could suggest something that would suite steel traffic?

 

A couple of points re plastic wagon kit construction, I apologise if you know all this stuff but it is worth saying.

 

Good light, your glasses if you need them like me an a cutting mat.

Always find a picture to base your model on.  It may be a couple of pictures (it is fair to say the wagon you have picked got chopped about quite a lot of the years)

Craft knife something small and keep it sharp, regularly change the blades.

Once you have carefully cut the parts from the spru, make sure they are cleaned up with a small file, remove mould marks and any residual parts of the spru.  (Careful what you are chopping off, check that photo)

Dry run, try each part you are about to join without the adhesive, check they fit first.

Use solvent adhesives, not that gloopy stuff in tubes they sell kids making airfix planes.  Definitely don’t use super glue.  I’m not saying that there is no space in a modellers tool box for SG but it’s not needed here.  Apply solvent with a small brush.  If you don’t know what I mean, please ask, this is really important.

if you are joining two parts at 90 degrees, try to find something to hold them square.  It might be a modelling square or just the edge of a piece of strip timber.

Defo paint afterwards, fill any gaps with milliput if necessary 

Prim with the the Halford plastic primer if you can.  You can spray outside weather permitting, go easy don’t apply too much.  Many thin coats.

your prototypes were often in very poor aesthetic appearance due to the hard nature of their work, there is a whole world of  weathering videos but there is plenty of time for that later

 

Hope that helps

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

[JN]

Right, okay. I decided to have another go. On some simple wagons first:

BDA

BNA

’Salmon’ wagon.

 

Then I am going to see if I can make a BBA.

 

Isambard Kingdom Brunel did not come across the Thames did not hide away, let someone else do it, just because a flaw in the design.

 

Admittedly, I am a bit nervous. To quote Jay-Z: ’To try and to fail/the two things I hate/To try and succeed/The two things is great’. However, now that I have come across an online tutorial for a salmon wagon I will not make the same mistakes. I have also bought a craft set, so that might help to get me into the modelling (not putting lumps of plastic together or something like that) mood. I accept that my attitude can be wrong rather than my ability being short of what is required. Yes, the wrong kind of … is what I would like to say, but then I can get the ‘right kind of …’ instead.

[Enterprisingwestern]

On 24/11/2021 at 08:53, wagonbasher said:

It might be wise to try a straight forward 4 wheel wagon first,

 

, and not a Cambrian one at that!

 

Mike.

[Mr T]

I am mainly an aircraft modeller, but with about thirty or so wagon kits plus a good number of wagon and coach improvement and detailing under my belt. Wagonbashers advice is good, and he is spot on about trying something a bit easier. Some of the older Cambrian kits can be challenging in terms of fettling and making sure everything is square. My building has been of wagons used up to about 1962, and so not the more modern stuff. I have built the Salmon kit, it requires care as it quite long and you need to be sure it is true in all directions. Wagon building is fun and makes a change from a vacform or resin aircraft kit or one  a 'short run' injection moulded kit

 

 

[NBL]

5 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

, and not a Cambrian one at that!

 

Mike.

Agreed, Cambrian kits are good but can be fiddly.  Parkside Peco are great and more beginner friendly, though to get used to the mechanics on how glues and paints work, nothing beats picking up an old Airfix wagon kit or 2 - not the Dapol versions.

 

You can pick these up cheap from eBay just to practice on them discard once you feel you've got a good grasp of kit building 

[griffgriff]

7 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

, and not a Cambrian one at that!

 

Mike.

Their SPA plate wagon isn’t a bad kit and suits your requirements.
 

The body is 2 sides and 2 ends. Any warping of the sides is unlikely because they are so shallow.  I’d swap out the axle guards for Brass ones (eg MJT) and perhaps replace a few of the cruder parts (it’s an old kit) with alternatives; new Oleo buffers would develop improve the look along with springs and axle boxes. With a little care it can be built into a fine and useful piece of stock.

 

Griff

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

52 minutes ago, griffgriff said:

Their SPA plate wagon isn’t a bad kit and suits your requirements.
 

The body is 2 sides and 2 ends. Any warping of the sides is unlikely because they are so shallow.  I’d swap out the axle guards for Brass ones (eg MJT) and perhaps replace a few of the cruder parts (it’s an old kit) with alternatives; new Oleo buffers would develop improve the look along with springs and axle boxes. With a little care it can be built into a fine and useful piece of stock.

 

Griff

 

 

 

You've just admirably described Trigger's broom!

 

Mike.

[griffgriff]

Not at all…. Embellishments. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I'm assuming the plastic bag is OK?

 

Mike.

[griffgriff]

As long as its done the Job

 

seriously thought, I think the SPA is comparable to Parkside IMHO…. I make the same modifications to their kits also. I normally find something to alter when building something lol 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I have this forlorn hope that the new owner at Cambrian could address all the niggling faults, one hell of  a job I realise, but just imagine the range up to Chivers standards, heaven!

 

Mike.

[cctransuk]

21 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I have this forlorn hope that the new owner at Cambrian could address all the niggling faults, one hell of  a job I realise, but just imagine the range up to Chivers standards, heaven!

 

Mike.

 

Only God is perfect.

 

Half the assembly fun is overcoming the kit shortcomings!

 

I have built dozens of Cambrian kits, and none were difficult - just a little fiddly, occasionally.

 

CJI.

[JN]

Hi folks,

 

Thanks for the advice/support. I was just thinking that with me wanting to model BR secotrisation (early 1990s to be a little more specific) era and being mostly interested in steel-producing areas I would be best starting off with BBAs and BDAs. I also have seen photographs of BNAs in the rake of Margam - Trostre trains. However, those are bought now, so I can put them to one side and if nothing else can serve as a reminder as to why I am doing the less glamorous aspects of railway modelling first (steel production is said to be the height of industrial production by some economic historians).

 

Part of the reason I have turned to modelling kits is availability and price. Although, with postage and everything else (bearings, paints, transfers - anything else?) I feel I would be as expensive if not more so. That said, £50 in three goes is a little bit more budget friendly. One of the things Jordan Peterson commented on about Genesis One (he did a really interesting lecture series on the compatibility of the Book of Genesis with our understanding of psychology) is that creation was done in stages. Now that I have tidied up my room I feel like I can attempt to put one of these things together.

 

Anyway, I have looked at the kits available and the clam/rudd wagon seems both appropriate and simple for a novice. I am not sure if clam wagons were used for the 7B36 and 8B05 (both ALEXANDRA DOCK JN T.C. to LLANDEILO JN) of summer 1991 (from photos, the mostly used wagon then and there seems to be the Dogfish), but if nothing else, the wagons can be used as practice - not just practice for wagon construction, but load modelling too. I also realise some wagons, until new releases are made, will have to be the symbol of the symbolised. If the wagons were present on the West then, well, so much the better. I know I keep on changing locations, but that happens for a variety of reasons! Maybe I am being a little perfectionist, but accepting a generic (interchangeable) model railway for home.

 

I have thought about a smaller layout in my flat’s lounge rather than in my non-electrified garage. I did think about a dock end-to-end layout as well (similar to a Scottish layout on RMWeb), but that is what made me realise an in-home layout is obviously more practical if not as big. http://www.swanseadocks.co.uk/docksnewsite/railwaystrains.html means shorter wagons are not 'wrong' even if means settling for an earlier era. I like trains, so I will be happy with something and I am using the hobby to get out habits which are bad rather than to express something about a particular place or time. I seem to have a particular interest of short steel trains from steel works to dock and associated traffic. I also like MGR coal trains, but (again) more to do with docks than power stations. I suppose we all have our eccentricities.

 

Anyway, I am getting ahead of myself. I did not ignore previous advice, but having forgotten it and being a bit like headstrong ox my behaviour might appear as if I had done so. Thank you, again, for your advice and support. Sorry if it seemed like I ignored Wagonbasher and/or anyone else (better for you to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it).