Kit Built Class A2 Conversion to DCC

[Smudge617]

Hi Everyone.

I recently purchased from everyone's favourite auction site, a Kit built Class A2, but I'm a little (read very)  confused as to where I need to attach the DCC harness, as I don't understand how the builder has wired the motor up. (Electrics are not my strong suit as RAF can testify) as you can see, the motor is similar to a X03/O4. The Red and Green wires come from the tender pickups, that I get, but the two red covered wires to the front are a mystery, my understanding is that they should connect to pickups either side of the frame or one side via contact through the chassis from one of the two centre wheels, (others being fitted with traction tyres), but there are no pickups, and both wheels are insulated. When it arrived the green wire was not attached, but the motor ran when tested, so I know it's receiving power from the opposite side of the track via some part of the loco, therefore the two red wires are for something, and they don't look like capacitors, do I simply wire in the the harness from these (observing polarity if I add the tender pickups) and then add the power from the harness to the motor as per an XO3/4. Or insulate the motor, and just use the tender pickups to power the motor.

[micklner]

Never seen that Motor before, it looks very old . You will need power from the Tender, as there is only one driver each side on the Loco which can supply power.Traction tyres wheels will not pass power to the motor.

It might be a lot easier ,to fit a new chassis and a modern motor/gearbox and wheels to Loco and Tender, if you want DCC .

 

I am presuming this a SE Finecast kit ?

 

Squires now sell them.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SE-Finecast-LNER-BR-A2-Loco-Tender-Chassis-Unassembled-Kit-FC160-/384066906492?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338268676&toolid=10044&customid=EAIaIQobChMI8fOh0Ki_8wIViAUGAB15DAypEAQYASABEgJNvvD_BwE

[JeremyC]

I don't know anything about converting this to DCC, but the chassis is from the old Trix A2 model. (And looking closely I've a feeling the body is from the same source i.e. it's not a kit).

https://www.hattons.co.uk/322513/trix_1186trix_sd01_class_a2_4_6_2_525_a_h_peppercorn_in_lner_green_pre_owned_repainted_tender_bo/stockdetail.aspx

I have one of these models, but haven't run it for years, IIRC the chassis was very powerful. I think there was no pickup from the loco, only from the tender.

I believe Trix used the chassis from a model of a German pacific.

Edited October 10, 2021 by JeremyC

[JeffP]

Unless I'm very much mistaken, the two red "wires" are no such thing. They appear to be some form of stabiliser/fixing attaching motor to gearbox.

They can thus be ignored.

[JeremyC]

18 minutes ago, JeffP said:

Unless I'm very much mistaken, the two red "wires" are no such thing. They appear to be some form of stabiliser/fixing attaching motor to gearbox.

They can thus be ignored.

The two red things are, I think, to do with TV interference suppression. The pickup wires should be connected to the tags to the right (I think there were two, one each side of the insulating plate) , not directly to the motor.

Edited October 10, 2021 by JeremyC

[John Tomlinson]

I agree with Jeremy above, the motor is a Trix/ Liliput one, they used the same in the Western, and it looks like the whole thing is the Trix A2, not a kit. I agree as well that the thick red wires are suppressors for the TV.

 

How you get this to DCC I don't however know, as I've stuck with DC! One problem appears to be that there is a feed to the motor by making the chassis live, which I understand makes life difficult. You might be advised to transfrer this to the "DCC" section of RMweb, as it's quite likely someone else has done this before.

 

John.

[Smudge617]

Thanks everyone. I've put this on the DCC section, so hopefully I can get this sorted out.

On closer inspection I believe your correct and this is a Trix model A2 and not kit built (the clue was the chassis retaining screw located in the stack), so I will be contacting the seller, but as I have already "messed" with it, (general service etc, and re-soldered the detached wire, and re-fitted the front weight.) it's doubtful they will accept a return, but as they described it as a "Kit built all metal model" I might get away with it.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Smudge617

[RexAshton]

As the loco is not as advertised send it back for an immediate refumd.

[Michael Hodgson]

Is it impossible to isolate both brushes from the chassis?  Surely if you can do that, DCC conversion is just the same as for anything powered by an X04 and you need to provide pickups from both rails.

 

I agree the thick red wires look like TV suppression chokes which were only necessary until telly changed from VHF to UHF and are now redundant for purposes of suppressing interference.  A choke passes DC but blocks high frequency AC.  So it would be OK in the feed to an analogue loco motor under DC, but it is likely to be unhelpful under DCC.

 

We seem to have concluded that it's not kit-built but a Trix chassis that has been mucked about with.  I am also wondering whether this has been converted by somebody from 3-rail, although the insulated drivers do tend to suggest otherwise?  The red and green wires certainly look like an amateur mod or repair rather than original.  So does that large dollop of solder by the brush to which the red wire is connected.

 

The driving wheels may be insulated on both sides and you say it is picking up from somewhere so I think you need to get to the bottom of that.  That solder tag on the gearbox is there for a reason, though it looks as though it was once connected to something, probably part of original wiring to the brush on that side?  Pickup via bogies??  One side live to chassis, tender chassis live to other rail, connection via insulated drawbar?  

[Blandford1969]

I can't answer your question, but it is not a kit you really should just insist on a refund as it is not as advertised. 

[Smudge617]

Hi Guys

I've done a bit more research and found that this is indeed a Trix Model, circa 1969-71,  (Trix went bust in '73)  The motor is correct for the model, never heard of a Perma motor though, and it has two pickups in the tender connected to the motor which are also correct. But, yes someone has indeed done some "modifications", and was definitely over enthusiastic with the soldering iron. I've found a service sheet of sorts on the TTRCA website for it as well, for anyone who might be interested.

http://www.ttrca.co.uk/A2 Peppercorn Servicing.pdf

There is a gentleman in Australia who has given me the "How to" to convert it, but I've contacted the seller and am waiting on a reply.

UPDATE.

Just got a notification now as I write this, got a partial refund, so the model has cost me the same as a second hand 5 plank wagon, I'll take that.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Smudge617

[John Tomlinson]

On 13/10/2021 at 21:02, Smudge617 said:

Hi Guys

I've done a bit more research and found that this is indeed a Trix Model, circa 1969-71,  (Trix went bust in '73)  The motor is correct for the model, never heard of a Perma motor though, and it has two pickups in the tender connected to the motor which are also correct. But, yes someone has indeed done some "modifications", and was definitely over enthusiastic with the soldering iron. I've found a service sheet of sorts on the TTRCA website for it as well, for anyone who might be interested.

http://www.ttrca.co.uk/A2 Peppercorn Servicing.pdf

There is a gentleman in Australia who has given me the "How to" to convert it, but I've contacted the seller and am waiting on a reply.

UPDATE.

Just got a notification now as I write this, got a partial refund, so the model has cost me the same as a second hand 5 plank wagon, I'll take that.

 

Sounds a good deal.

 

FWIW I seem to remember that the Trix A2 was quite well thought of, obviously though it isn't a kit!

 

Perma was just a name from memory used on this particular motor, they are fairly strong and typical of their era.

 

John.

[Smudge617]

Just to keep everyone updated, as to how this is all progressing (apart from slowly).

Power was coming from the chassis via one side of both pony units on the loco, other side, via the tender pickups, so one side was picking up from the tender and the loco, other side just the tender, the red parts are indeed suppressors and removing them from the board isolates the motor. So I can power the loco via the decoder by just using the tender pickups. But I will have to solder directly onto the brushes as todays brushes are too wide to fit in the slot, and, ingeniously I thought, the springs holding the brushes are fitted under the top of the motor.

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Smudge617