1938 Tube Stock

[andyman7]

7 hours ago, Erixtar1992 said:

Please see above for a demo of the new 1938 stock sound file  available via Roads & Rails Can also change CV157 for class 483 version whistles/guard sounds ect

Lovely - but why the flickering lights-on? 1938 tube stock had incandescent lighting, not fluorescent strips so the lights come straight on or go straight off. However, the lighting on the real thing was not through wired so individual car lights would go out on crossovers.

[andyman7]

Some more pictures

 

[Erixtar1992]

5 hours ago, andyman7 said:

Lovely - but why the flickering lights-on? 1938 tube stock had incandescent lighting, not fluorescent strips so the lights come straight on or go straight off. However, the lighting on the real thing was not through wired so individual car lights would go out on crossovers.

Can be taken off if you wanted with a CV change, just having a bit of fun really!

[Erixtar1992]

Random one that ive just thought of - wheres the vanity panel that should hide the front NEM coupling?

 

when it was announced were they not going to have a removable piece with the NEM socket hiding behind?  Im not 100% though like, but it looks a little silly if not coupling the DM cars nose to nose, having the socket on show

[andyman7]

11 hours ago, Erixtar1992 said:

Can be taken off if you wanted with a CV change, just having a bit of fun really!

It'll come in handy when they do the 1959 stock 

 

[PMP99]

12 hours ago, Erixtar1992 said:

Random one that ive just thought of - wheres the vanity panel that should hide the front NEM coupling?

 

when it was announced were they not going to have a removable piece with the NEM socket hiding behind?  Im not 100% though like, but it looks a little silly if not coupling the DM cars nose to nose, having the socket on show

Only had a quick look, but the real thing seems to have a not totally dissimilar box that the coupling bar protrudes through, albeit not quite the same appearance, but if anything more prominent than the NEM socket?

[Dublodad]

What is really needed is a Wedgelock coupler with NEM socket forks plugged in!!!!

Who s up to produce some - 3D printed maybe????

[PhilJ W]

18 hours ago, Erixtar1992 said:

Random one that ive just thought of - wheres the vanity panel that should hide the front NEM coupling?

 

when it was announced were they not going to have a removable piece with the NEM socket hiding behind?  Im not 100% though like, but it looks a little silly if not coupling the DM cars nose to nose, having the socket on show

 

5 hours ago, PMP99 said:

Only had a quick look, but the real thing seems to have a not totally dissimilar box that the coupling bar protrudes through, albeit not quite the same appearance, but if anything more prominent than the NEM socket?

I didn't notice the NEM pocket as it actually resembles the Ward coupling used on most Underground stock.

[PhilJ W]

3 hours ago, Dublodad said:

What is really needed is a Wedgelock coupler with NEM socket forks plugged in!!!!

Who s up to produce some - 3D printed maybe????

Actually the coupling used on Underground stock is known as a Ward coupling. Good idea though, a cosmetic coupling that clips into a NEM pocket. The NEM pocket can be quite conspicuous on some locomotives especially express steam locomotives.

[PMP99]

7 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Actually the coupling used on Underground stock is known as a Ward coupling. Good idea though, a cosmetic coupling that clips into a NEM pocket. The NEM pocket can be quite conspicuous on some locomotives especially express steam locomotives.

Hadn’t heard that name (Ward) before, but just ‘googled’ it for more info.

[Dublodad]

Only pre 38 tube stock and Q converted surface stock (plus service fleet) had Ward couplers. 1935 Tube stock onwards and O, P and R stock onwards had Wedgelock coupler. The Metropolitan Railway stock prior to 1933 used both Screw and some buckeyes (T Stock).

I don't know about modern tube stock though.

In the late 1960's, I among others have uncoupled Wedgelocks with a crowbar when there was no air connection to the uncouple air cylinder on one particular 1960 tube stock car!!!!

[Lee-H]

Two of the axles on Car C in my set are not rotating easily. I can’t see any obvious reason for this but the two power cars are struggling to get it moving. Car B is fine, free wheeling. Has anyone else had a similar problem?

[Dublodad]

Yes, my C car outer end towards the motor car. This is the NDM, is it due to the presence of shoe beams on the bogie. Mine won't be run for a while yet.

[Gwiwer]

On further inspection .....

 

The car roofs are equipped with bosses for the orange door fault detector lights which were only fitted to some 1938 stock cars at extra-heavy overhaul late in their lives; many never had them.  They were a standard fitting to 1956/59/62 stock.  The bosses are not painted orange but are roof-grey so go largely un-noticed but a purist could rub them down easily enough especially as part of a skilled weathering job.

 

The car stock numbers are in very well-executed black-edged gold along with the name "London Transport".  That style was worn by the cars until survivors of the 1970's cull were repainted into "bus red" whereupon they gained white vinyl car numbers and the roundel instead of a fleet name.  Has anyone checked the shade of red?  It appears bright to my eyes but when compared with several EFE London buses it is somewhat darker than those and therefore represents the "tube red" shade as used with the gold stock numbers etc.  

[Darius43]

Wedgelock coupler made from plasticard and fixed to a cut down spare EFE coupler.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Edited January 22, 2022 by Darius43

[Coppercap]

7 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

On further inspection .....

 

The car roofs are equipped with bosses for the orange door fault detector lights which were only fitted to some 1938 stock cars at extra-heavy overhaul late in their lives; many never had them.  They were a standard fitting to 1956/59/62 stock.  The bosses are not painted orange but are roof-grey so go largely un-noticed but a purist could rub them down easily enough especially as part of a skilled weathering job.

That was one of the errors pointed out when EFE first produced these. It appeared the main body tool was identical for all the models, but with different cab ends as required. They did have correct, different seat mouldings for the 1938 and 1959/62 stock.

[andyman7]

20 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

On further inspection .....

 

The car roofs are equipped with bosses for the orange door fault detector lights which were only fitted to some 1938 stock cars at extra-heavy overhaul late in their lives; many never had them.  They were a standard fitting to 1956/59/62 stock.  The bosses are not painted orange but are roof-grey so go largely un-noticed but a purist could rub them down easily enough especially as part of a skilled weathering job.

 

 

12 hours ago, Coppercap said:

That was one of the errors pointed out when EFE first produced these. It appeared the main body tool was identical for all the models, but with different cab ends as required. They did have correct, different seat mouldings for the 1938 and 1959/62 stock.

I would very much like a set in late 1970s/1980s bus red with roundels, Bakerloo line post-EHO in which case the main body tool with door lights will be perfect...

[Jeremy Cumberland]

On 21/01/2022 at 23:29, Lee-H said:

Two of the axles on Car C in my set are not rotating easily. I can’t see any obvious reason for this but the two power cars are struggling to get it moving. Car B is fine, free wheeling. Has anyone else had a similar problem?

 

On 22/01/2022 at 08:23, Dublodad said:

Yes, my C car outer end towards the motor car. This is the NDM, is it due to the presence of shoe beams on the bogie. Mine won't be run for a while yet.

 

The A and D do not refer to the car itself, but to the end of the car. Strictly speaking, they refer to axles (hence the letters being A and D), and the reason they are so prominent is because most London Underground units (including 1938 Tube Stock) were handed, so that you could not couple an A end to another A end, or a D end to another D end (or you couldn't control the rear unit, at any rate).

 

The two otherwise-identical end cars are called the "A" DM and the "D" DM (they are called this even when separated from the rest of the unit, when undegoing maintenance for example), but the trailer and the NDM and not called the "B" and "C" cars.

 

On some lines such as the Bakerloo and the pre-Heathrow Terminal 4 Piccadilly, units aren't turned in ordinary operation, so all units are the same way round and no problems arise. The Northern line has the Kennington loop and units get turned on a regular basis, so being able to easily identify A and D ends is vital.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Jeremy C

[Darius43]

15 minutes ago, Jeremy C said:

 

 

The A and D do not refer to the car itself, but to the end of the car. Strictly speaking, they refer to axles (hence the letters being A and D), and the reason they are so prominent is because most London Underground units (including 1938 Tube Stock) were handed, so that you could not couple an A end to another A end, or a D end to another D end (or you couldn't control the rear unit, at any rate).

 

The two otherwise-identical end cars are called the "A" DM and the "D" DM (they are called this even when separated from the rest of the unit, when undegoing maintenance for example), but the trailer and the NDM and not called the "B" and "C" cars.

 

On some lines such as the Bakerloo and the pre-Heathrow Terminal 4 Piccadilly, units aren't turned in ordinary operation, so all units are the same way round and no problems arise. The Northern line has the Kennington loop and units get turned on a regular basis, so being able to easily identify A and D ends is vital.

Interesting.  The posters, however, my have been referring to the letters “B” and “C”, which EFE/Bachmann have helpfully printed on the underside of the NDM chassis.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Dublodad]

The Car Designation used above refers to the letters printed on the cars by Bachmann to aid coupling the cars in the unit in the correct formation.

Non reversible units 1938, 1956, 1959 and 1962 tube stock have a rubbing plate in the A car and a central sprung buffer on the D car. Units can be mechanically coupled A to A, but the electrical connections on the coupler needed o insulating material between tem. To couple D to D, a D to D adapter had to be used as the buffers prevented the Wedgelocks even touching. All D end Driving Motor Cars carried an adapter under one of he transverse seats. This would have been particularly important on the Northern Line, where at times over half the fleet could be "the wrong way round. 

This is also true of O, P and R stocks.

Later stocks could be coupled mechanically either way but not necessarily electrically

S stock have purely mechanical Wedgelock coupler at each end.

[Gwiwer]

I found it of passing interest to note that Bachmann correctly identified the "A" and "D" end cars by the letter beneath as well as the visible plate on the cab-end (see photos posted above) which all units carried.  "A" end cars were numbered 10xxx with "D" end cars having the second digit 1 but normally matching the "A" end otherwise.  Thus as built 10012 ran with 11012 though over the years many exchanges occurred.  As noted above the use by Bachmann / EFE of letters B and C is only to identify correct orientation in the unit and is not prototypical.  Much the same has been the case with their other multiple units of more than three coaches, where mis-formation might affect correct operation never mind look wrong, including Voyager and Cep / Bep units.  

 

In addition there were the "UNDM" - Uncoupling Non-Driving Motor cars built (or in the case of 22 cars were converted from 1938-built cars rendered spare when the 9-car trains were reduced to the standard 7-cars) from 1949 - 51 and numbered in the 30xxx and 31xxx series which were located in the middle of trains.  The principle of the UNDM was that the car wasn't fitted with a full size cab but did have a control panel in place of the normal guard's panel at the single end passenger doorway.  When units were required to uncouple - which would only ever be in depots on the tube lines - the driver or shunter would use the emergency door window in the centre of the car end for forward visibility.  This arrangement allowed units to be driven from the leading end at any time when shunting in depots and never "backwards" from the trailing end which could be four cars away.  In the case of UNDM cars since they could not be at the leading ends of trains they were normally found in the 3-car units with 30xxx cars being on the Northern Line and 31xxx being on the Bakerloo Line although a handful ran on the Piccadilly Line in 1938 stock trains boosting the 1959 stock fleet strength after delivery.   

 

From 1956 onwards each unit built had full driving cabs at each end, at the cost of a few passenger seats and a single-leaf doorway, ending the need to provide for shunting movements but not the need to ensure A-to-D coupling between units.  This was particularly important on the Northern and Central Lines where the the Kennington terminal loop and the Hainault loop between Leytonstone and Woodford could cause trains to become "turned".  

 

On the surface lines the 2-car units of Q-stock were formed Driving Motor + Uncoupling Trailer which cars operated in a similar manner to the tube UNDMs but lacked their own motors.  As built the R-stock was formed into 4-car west-end and 2-car east-end units with cars 4 and 5 (234xx and 235xx series) being UNDMs.  For their earlier years these trains were run in 6-car formation most of the time but an additional 2-car east-end unit was added for peak times which required use of the UNDM control panel.  These units could often be seen berthed at Ealing Broadway station or in Barking sidings when not in use though others were added / detached in Upminster depot out of public sight.  Q-stock also operated in 8-car formation at peak times with the additional 2-car unit being shunted on or off at specific locations.  Q-stock was fitted with Ward couplers which required manual operation; R-stock had Wedgelocks which were semi-automatic.  

 

 

[Dublodad]

Gwiwer Q stock (officially Q converted stock) were "car stock" so every car was fitted with Ward couplers.

The West end (No 1) car of R stock had a Ward coupler instead of a Wedgelock for emergency use.

[46444]

If anyone is after one of these Monk Bar Models in York had one left this afternoon. 

 

I think it was £314 and they do mail order. 

 

Hope that helps. 

 

Cheers, 

 

Mark 

[Nickel Plate]

Got mine under the counter waiting for me at my LMS. Looking forward to handing over some groats and collecting it soon. 

 

Can we have some Isle of Wight 2-car units please Mr EFE

[Gwiwer]

A minor problem arose with the EFE unit after test and as I went to re-pack it.  The coupler bars are nowhere near as tight as those on the 2-Hap / 2-EPB units which are causing damage when users attempt to push them home let alone release them.  But as I applied gentle pressure to the prongs of a power bar - in order to effect the "squeeze and ease" method of uncoupling, so the little black cover-plate in its centre popped off and sprang away.  That left the two copper strips essential for transmitting power loose (as I discovered they are not glued) and luckily visible on the layout.  

 

Having very carefully replaced those strips onto the tiny locating lugs they sit on I set about locating the cover-plate.  As many of us will know a small rectangular piece of black plastic could hide anywhere and could even be mistaken for something else.  I was lucky to find it quickly on the pale-coloured carpet rather than having to scour the layout.  It simply clips back on - there is no visible evidence of adhesive.  So fair warning, tube train owners, that these coupler bars might spring apart and the small-but-critical components are not glued together at all.  

Edited January 27, 2022 by Gwiwer