Peterborough North

[David Bell]

Another wee reminisce if I may. 

From 1976 until 1979 I worked on SRPS railtours. I worked in the catering operation. We used to serve everyone coffees and teas in their seats. All eight coaches. We operated out of a Gresley buffet car. We would send two people in each direction with teas and coffees and then have runners with refilled jugs to replenish as they moved along the coaches. It was quite a slick operation. No trolleys in those days.

 

On one tour we had some difficulty coupling the buffet car to the three or four BR mk1s which formed the rear of the train.Both the Gresley and the adjacent mk1 had buckeye couplers and we struggled to get them coupled.

Eventually we managed and the train headed off to Edinburgh to start the tour. The destination was Mallaig.

 

On the way to Mallaig I was doing the replenishment run. I collected my full jugs and headed out the buffet car towards the rear of the train. I opened the sliding door to the next coach and was more than a little surprised to see that the train had just parted. I could see the end of the mk1 about 50 yds behind us slowly rolling to a stop. Of course the train was also slowing, since the braking system had been compromised.

 

We did gather it all up, recouple and head onwards, somewhat late.

 

Happy days!

 

[LNER4479]

On 04/12/2020 at 12:19, great northern said:

I'm more than happy to read about rail tours ...  I just love railways in general, as I'm sure do most of the people who visit here, so some wider experiences are welcome.

Well, you did ask for it so here goes ...

 

Here's some memories of a memorable(!) day out on the trains some 30 odd years ago. Before launching into the story, I must apologise / clarify, that this was only really possible (ie affordable) due to being railway employee and having a British Rail pass.

 

There were a group of us who were all very much into rail travel and doing crazy(-ish) things so this was our first (and best) 24 rail travel competition. Taking place on a Saturday midnight-to-midnight, the rules were to return to the start point before the 24 hours were up, repeat mileage didn't count - and no HST mileage allowed (to encourage variety and loco haul!)

 

These were the days before internet timetables so it was all planned out manually using the printed all line timetable (I used to love those!). There were three teams of two and we had to submit our travel plans to another colleague (who didn't fancy the midnight bit!) but agreed to act as arbiter.

 

The appointed date was March 14th 1987. The start and finish station? Reading(!) Mainly because there were good post-midnight options from there and we could get back again on the Sunday. I told you we were half crazy.

 

This is how me and my travel companion (also called Graham!) got on.

 

The 'Night Riviera' called at Reading just after midnight, so we all piled on to that and headed west. Just dossing down in seats for some supposed sleep (too poor to afford sleeper compartments!). We alighted at Exeter Central - the others carried on to Plymouth(!). First delight was to take the first train of the day to Barnstaple, which departed Exeter just before 0500! It was loco-hauled (class 33) and had parcels traffic on, including newspapers for the local area. Repeat mileage coming back of course but we'd accounted for that (all in the dark, so no photos). Back at Exeter, we then took the branch train to Exmouth (seen in the photo - it was now daylight!). Remember those GW-liveried Nodding Donkeys? Called them 'Skippers' didn't they (yeuck!)

 

Back to Exeter Central where we then really got into it. This Class 50 along the WOEML as far as Salisbury.

 

At Salisbury, change trains for this Class 33 + 4 MkIs via Romsey to Southampton.

 

This was all so we could catch the main train of the day - the Poole-Newcastle, which we were due to take as far as Leeds (about 6 or 7 hours I think, can't quite remember). Things had been going OK so far but then it started to get 'interesting'. For reasons I can't fully remember, this train continued to lose time such that we were over 15 minutes late into the Bermuda triangle of Birmingham New Street. And our critical connection at Leeds was only 12 minutes!

 

The reversal at New Street was achieved by a loco change and this old hulk coupled up. By the time we got the road we were a full 25 minutes late. 'No chance, now' we thought and started hurriedly consulting the trusty timetable to see what options were available at Derby.

But - wonder of wonders - this relic of the late steam age simply tore into the schedule, probably getting close to 100mph between Tamworth and Burton. 6 minutes had already been clawed back by Derby - we decided to stick with it and the Peak continued to perform, miraculously seeming to enjoy a charmed clear road. The pic was snatched during the Sheffield station stop with the signal red!

 

By the time we got to Leeds, a massive 19 minutes had been recovered and we had six minutes to find our train at Leeds. Not as easy as it sounds at that station and we did briefly sit on the wrong DMU before realising just in time. The journey from there was on via Copy Pit and Blackburn to Preston - sadly all in the dark - but here we are at Preston. Made it!

From there, we caught a WCML express straight back to London - our colleagues were also on the train! They'd elected to sacrifice interest for speed and incurred a massive 299 miles of repeat mileage by going to Glasgow and back (via Kilmarnock). Anyhow we got back to Reading just before midnight - and were declared the winners at 925 non repeat miles. We'd actually calculated 941 miles - but the arbiter politely pointed out that we'd done Reading-Didcot twice during the day!

 

Well, it wasn't steam ... but interesting to reflect on how much has changed even since 1987!

Edited December 5, 2020 by LNER4479

[jazzer]

Not exactly a spotting trip but some months ago we had some discussion on this thread about the "Scotch Goods " and as its PN and ECML related I thought I would share with you all some background information about this interesting train in the era of Gilberts trains set. These details are mainly from an old Trains Illustrated Annual that I collected, which included a cab ride, plus one or two other sources

 

It is important to put our minds back to the state of transport in the pre-motorway era. Despite negative reports  from the press and ill-informed politicians the railways were trying hard in  difficult circumstances to provide a service to industry . . In 1948 British Railways inherited a network of small  outdated marshalling yards going back to the pre-grouping era , of which very few were mechanised. Well placed strategic centres with the latest equipment were still in the future so it was in the actual operation of the train on the road where the most drastic improvements could be made in the short term, in order to provide improved door-to-door times for traders. The key to this was more fully fitted class C and D freights with a narrowing of difference in speed  between the freights and normal passenger services. This re-scheduling involved cutting out all unnecessary stops by long through engine and crew running and lodging turns.

 

By the latter part of the 1950's Kings Cross depot was running two freights non stop to York and one to Hull each day, with the crew working another freight home the following day, New England had a similar turn to Newcastle, Colwick one to Kings X and back, Ardsley  had one each to Kings X and Whitemoor , Doncaster one the KX and back while the GE men from March had two nightly trains to York. all these turns made improved times possible.

 

The Jewel; in the Crown though, was the Scotch Goods officially known as 266Down. which was originally introduced, it seems , in about 1930 , scheduled for K1 haulage,  although V2's seem to have taken over by the late  1930's. As part of the improved schedules from September 1956 it was allocated pacific haulage and accelerated to run non stop between KX and Skelton New Sidings York which was at the time the longest non stop run for a freight train in this country, 190 miles, although a stop to attach more wagons at Biggleswade was later added without increase to the overall schedule. The engine and crew would work through to Newcastle in a single shift arriving at around 10.30 pm.. The job was allocated to the KX "Newcastle Lodge " link,  although not all turns were lodging turns. The 36 men in this link also covered the morning and afternoon Talismans, the Flying Scotsman  the Tees -Tyne Pullman and the heavy KX-Edinburgh sleeper. . Once every 18 weeks a crew would get the Scotch Goods running down on Mondays ,Wednesdays and Fridays, then 18 weeks later they would have the job on Tuesdays ,Thursdays and Saturdays.. On weekdays the crew would bring the same engine back on the 12.19 Flying Scotsman, and on Saturdays they would return with the  12-30 ex-Newcastle  Northumbrian. This was good engine utilisation as prior to the acceleration it had meant keeping a pacific standing idle for twenty hours before its return home.

 

This accelerated timing provided excellent customer service at the time.  Departure times varied but were normally  just after 3pm to fit in with the afternoon Talisman and West Riding. This meant that traders could bring their palletised consignments to KX depot at any time up to 1PM and they would arrive in Edinburgh to be delivered door to door by the start of business the following day.. The train ran on the fast line until Arsley where it was switched to the slow line for the nine-minute Biggleswade stop. then slow line again  twice more to let first the West Riding ,then the Talisman pass, but apart from that it was fast line all the way  including the 114 miles from Peterborough to York  where it stopped for 22 minutes to enable  a crew break and engine requirements .

This was a really remarkable service for the time, the train invariably being loaded to the Maximum of 50 wagons, 750 tons on weekdays, although only around half that on Saturdays.. Kings Cross Depot must have been quite something in those days. It handled an average of 75 trains per day with about 8000 wagons and arriving and departing each week and had a staff of 213 men including guards. There were normally seven pilot engines employed round the clock  with an extra one from 2 pm to 10 pm. How the railways have changed !

 

One final anecdote involves the legendary Bill Hoole when he wasn't over-running signals.  He left KX with the Scotch Goods 23 minutes late . and in an effort not to lose his path to the West Riding he passed Hitchin at 60 mph then took his 750 t0n train on to Huntingdon 27 miles in 20 minutes, which was the time the Talisman was  allowed -75 mph !.  Unfortunately a wagon developed a hot box so he was stopped at Peterborough to detach it and watched din disgust as the West Riding  and the Talisman passed him.  Undeterred his was soon making express passenger speeds up Stoke Bank despite 750 tons on the draw bar, only to be stopped at Retford because he was catching the Talisman up !

 

I hope this little bit of background information in some way enhances Gilberts wonderful pictures of express frieghts at Peterborough North.

 

 

 

 

[great northern]

A bit tired tonight, so I shall read those very interesting posts properly in the morning. The  bl**dy PC has been playing tricks on me, and it took me ages to sort it out. So for now, just another shot of Galtee More.

 

 

lots of zoom, from up on Crescent Bridge. It does have a certain impact, I think.

[jwealleans]

10 hours ago, jazzer said:

scheduled for K1 haulage,  although V2's seem to have taken over by the late  1930's

 

I think that's a typo -it was K3 hauled before the V2s appeared.

 

10 hours ago, jazzer said:

...he was soon making express passenger speeds up Stoke Bank despite 750 tons on the draw bar, only to be stopped at Retford because he was catching the Talisman up !

 

This is quoted in one of Gerry Fiennes' books.   I'm not sure how much time he had for 'Driver Hoole'.

[landscapes]

22 hours ago, great northern said:

Forecast changed again, and we have some brightness. It makes a real difference at this time of year. That means I may be able to advance the sequence a little, and take some photos. For the time being though, here is another look at Galtee More.

 

 

Hi Gilbert 

 

Great photo, lovely composition 

 

Regards

 

David

[great northern]

Rain and gloom forecast, but we have sun. I shall hope for a better day than yesterday when it comes to dealing with bl**dy computers. The WD just sneaking in to yesterday's shot of Galtee More is now coming under the bridge.

 

 

It is being allowed through on the main, and now passes the A3, which will be on its way shortly.

 

 

[bigwordsmith]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

 

I think that's a typo -it was K3 hauled before the V2s appeared.

 

 

This is quoted in one of Gerry Fiennes' books.   I'm not sure how much time he had for 'Driver Hoole'.

 

I always got the feeling that while Fiennes disapproved of Hoole's attitude to Management, he had a lot of respect for his ability to get trains to arrive on time!

[great northern]

1 hour ago, bigwordsmith said:

 

I always got the feeling that while Fiennes disapproved of Hoole's attitude to Management, he had a lot of respect for his ability to get trains to arrive on time!

But wasn't the problem that he took no notice of booked times at all, which had a knock on effect on everything else?

[jazzer]

4 hours ago, great northern said:

But wasn't the problem that he took no notice of booked times at all, which had a knock on effect on everything else?

He certainly achieved some sort of cult hero status because of his 112 ( or was it 113 mph ) , the fastest time for post -war steam, and the book about him - “ Engineman Extraordinary “ gave him some kind of charisma, but KX shedmaster Peter Townend when interviewed in Steam World didn’t seem to have a high opinion of him and said if he passed one more signal at danger he would have to take him off the mainline. He also said he had a number of better drivers. So I suppose the truth is that those of us on the outside will never get to know the whole truth.

 

I

[great northern]

15 minutes ago, jazzer said:

He certainly achieved some sort of cult hero status because of his 112 ( or was it 113 mph ) , the fastest time for post -war steam, and the book about him - “ Engineman Extraordinary “ gave him some kind of charisma, but KX shedmaster Peter Townend when interviewed in Steam World didn’t seem to have a high opinion of him and said if he passed one more signal at danger he would have to take him off the mainline. He also said he had a number of better drivers. So I suppose the truth is that those of us on the outside will never get to know the whole truth.

 

I

I also wonder what opinions you would have got from the people who had to fire for him!

[great northern]

A new set of images now, and not to the standard I want. This was caused by Windoze unilaterally imposing a new method of getting things from camera to PC, which left me without RAW images, and not able to use Digital Photo Pro. I've found a way round it now, I think, but it was very annoying at the time. So, here we have an 02 heading south.

Pretty horrible really. There was a better one, but I can't find it, as the bl**dy thing has hidden it somewhere. We are not amused, and will now adjourn until the morrow, as I do not wish to get stressed with bedtime not far away.

 

 

 

[juke]

"There was a better one, but I can't find it, as the bl**dy thing has hidden it somewhere."

 

I use a little program called Agent Ransack. I've used it for yrears. I just checked and it's still available.

Mine is freeware but I see there is a Pro version too these days.

 

It's been very useful over the years.

 

Syd

 

 

[great northern]

This morning we have a J50 running along the engine road, on its way to South yard for shunting duties.

 

 

and Doncaster A3 Ladas has arrived with the 5.50 KX-Grantham.

 

 

[great northern]

Another of our local 9Fs this evening, bringing more empties under the bridge.

and along the straight.

 

 

[robmcg]

Lovely engines, the 9Fs. Not to say others don't offer power and grace....

 

I started a thread in appreciation of the Bachmann model a while ago, allowing me to indulge in photo-editing, partly.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/159727-Bachmann-9f-2-10-0-an-appreciation/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-4223118

 

I think my 92189 factory-weathered may well have regularly passed through Peterborough North.  

I received a lovely comment from Dave Tierney in response to one of my pictures. He was a young fireman on 9Fs in 1958 and I quote it here

>>

I fired on her when she was new to New England. I also fired on 92183 on her first trip on a New England-Ferme Park coal train. When we signed on at Hitchin that night, the Foreman told my Driver, Jack Thurgood, that there was an Inspector riding on the footplate as this brand new, double-chimneyed Spaceship was having steaming problems. As I was only just 17 at the time, the thought of of having a loco reported for poor steaming and with an Inspector on board to check it out had me trembling in my boots. Jack, also known as 'Old Gert' because he was a born worrier, said not to worry, just fire like you would normally do. When we climbed up onto the footplate at Cambridge Junction, the Bunget crew we relieved got off with barely a word said. The Inspector looked at me and said to Old Gert, that I looked too young to be on the main line. Old Gert, bless his heart replied, that I had never let him down in the three months I had been firing to him. After a quick check of the water level, the steam pressure and the fire, the tank overflowed and I jumped down to turn off the water and take the leather out of the tender. Then I climbed up on to the buffer beam to check that the smoke box door was tight and not sucking in air. Next I asked my Driver to pass down the rocker grate lever so I could open the hopper ashpan and make sure there wasn't a build up of ashes that was restricting the flow of primary air into the fire. For non-footplate readers, the two tasks I just did could have a detrimental effect on steaming. Next it was climb back on board and start working on the fire as it was haystack shaped. I filled the back corners as high as I could get them and with the bent-dart, knocked the top off the haystack in the middle of the box and had a reasonable fire to pull about 70 16 ton wagons of coal up the climb to Stevenage. A few minutes later, the board came off and as Old Gert started to get the train together, I opened the damper, shut the flap and turned the injector off. These actions would allow the fire to brighten up as the exhaust beats sucked the air through it. Once he had train on the move and I had whistled acknowledgement of the Guards hand signal, he gave it full regulator and the lever over to about 45%. If 92183 behaved in a similar way to all the other Spaceships I had fired on on the coal trains, within a few hundred yards, the steam would be up on the red line at 250psi , and thankfully it was! So I opened the flap and put the live steam injector on to stop her blowing off, then it was pick up the shovel and start earning my pay all of the way up hill to Stevenage. By this time, both the Inspector and Old Gert had smiles on their faces and I'm having to hang my backside out of the door and into the slipstream to cool it down. Not far from Stevenage, the Inspector to my Driver to slow down through the platform saying 'There's nowt wrong with this loco, I'm going home on the cushions.' What a sigh of relief the Driver and I let out.

<<

 

I observe Gilbert that the engine in question is the exact engine in your photos, 92183.

 

Thanks for reading, I will remove it if it offends.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by robmcg
typos and additions.

[Clive Mortimore]

23 hours ago, great northern said:

This morning we have a J50 running along the engine road, on its way to South yard for shunting duties.

 

 

and Doncaster A3 Ladas has arrived with the 5.50 KX-Grantham.

 

 

Hi Gilbert

 

The Thompson 3 compartment brake, what kit is it? Please?

[great northern]

I'll start the day with another 9F photo. This one was taken to try to replicate a prototype image taken by Ben Brookbanks, and will appear, together with the original, in the BRM article shortly. I hope Andy Y will not mind if you have a preview. It is actually something I have tried on here before, a few years back.

 

 

It is here because I feel the 9F sums up all that was best about British loco design. Even when the watchword was efficiency, easy access etc, we could still produce something which can be described as handsome. No ugly excrescenses plonked on top of and around the boiler here!

[great northern]

26 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Gilbert

 

The Thompson 3 compartment brake, what kit is it? Please?

Haven't been up and ckecked, Clive, but I'm pretty sure it is Comet. If I turn out to be wrong, I will correct and castigate myself.

[bigwordsmith]

As I was only born in 1955 my memories of steam are somewhat blurry.

 

I do recall that when I was nobbut a bairn my parents lived at 18 Brunstane Road,  Joppa, a suburb of Edinburgh. The house was directly over the road from Joppa Station from which my father committed each day to Glasgow, via Waverley. 

 

Of course as those of you who venture north of Grantham know, Joppa is on the ECML, it also used to be the site of the LNER laundry services the Scottish region, together with  a small goods yard, so from our back window I had an excellent view of a collection of steam engines bumping various trucks around, along with much 'conversation' between the various folk involved.

 

Being just five when we moved south so my father could get a promotion, I have little real memory of what happened, it was all just part of the scenery. if only I'd been a few years older and could enjoy what I missed.

 

It has been however a source of great amusement to be able to claim that my father was an economic migrant right back in 1960!

 

I do however have a lifelong memory of being dragged down to the nearby Portobello Beach in the 'Summer' and swimming in the Firth of Forth. As anyone who has ever done that in the peak of the Scottish Summer will recall, the North Sea never gets the memo about weather and remains stubbornly at about 4 degrees, so all photos of self at that time show a distinctly blue-is skin tone!

 

The picture shows the entrance to the old station on the left - now long gone, and our house opposite, it's the one just beyond the 20 mph sign - talk about a short walk to the station!

 

 

This one shows Joppa with a southbound Local - probably around the time Dad was commuting 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

7 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

As I was only born in 1955 my memories of steam are somewhat blurry.

 

I do recall that when I was nobbut a bairn my parents lived at 18 Brunstane Road,  Joppa, a suburb of Edinburgh. The house was directly over the road from Joppa Station from which my father committed each day to Glasgow, via Waverley. 

 

Of course as those of you who venture north of Grantham know, Joppa is on the ECML, it also used to be the site of the LNER laundry services the Scottish region, together with  a small goods yard, so from our back window I had an excellent view of a collection of steam engines bumping various trucks around, along with much 'conversation' between the various folk involved.

 

Being just five when we moved south so my father could get a promotion, I have little real memory of what happened, it was all just part of the scenery. if only I'd been a few years older and could enjoy what I missed.

 

It has been however a source of great amusement to be able to claim that my father was an economic migrant right back in 1960!

 

I do however have a lifelong memory of being dragged down to the nearby Portobello Beach in the 'Summer' and swimming in the Firth of Forth. As anyone who has ever done that in the peak of the Scottish Summer will recall, the North Sea never gets the memo about weather and remains stubbornly at about 4 degrees, so all photos of self at that time show a distinctly blue-is skin tone!

 

The picture shows the entrance to the old station on the left - now long gone, and our house opposite, it's the one just beyond the 20 mph sign - talk about a short walk to the station!

 

 

This one shows Joppa with a southbound Local - probably around the time Dad was commuting 

 

 

I thought the water at Porty beach was warmer because of the power station, or was that just the swimming pool?

 

I sometimes went for lunch at the Blue Bell on Porty High Street when I was working at Craigentinny and some friends from those days still stay at Argyle Crescent.

 

Small world..

[BMacdermott]

Hello Gilbert

 

Just for clarification...the photographer's name a couple of posts back is Ben Brooksbank (not Brooksbanks). 

 

Brian

[bigwordsmith]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I thought the water at Porty beach was warmer because of the power station, or was that just the swimming pool?

 

I sometimes went for lunch at the Blue Bell on Porty High Street when I was working at Craigentinny and some friends from those days still stay at Argyle Crescent.

 

Small world..

Not sure the warmer water ever got that much further!

 

I do recall one of my mothers many brothers telling a tale of having gone swimming at the beach and Remarking to one of the others “did you notice how that big wummun’ going past left the water behind her a lot warmer?”

 

yet another reason for not swimming in the sea!

 

what were you going st Craigentinny?

[BMacdermott]

Hello again Gilbert

 

To add to my earlier post about Ben Brooksbank (who was a fellow member of the Steam Railway Research Society), thread readers may like to know about two of his books - picture below.

 

Sadly, the second volume was produced poorly from the photos point of view.

 

All the best

 

Brian

 

 

[great northern]

43 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Gilbert

 

Just for clarification...the photographer's name a couple of posts back is Ben Brooksbank (not Brooksbanks). 

 

Brian

Thanks Brian. Once again I wasn't sure, but too idle to check.