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4 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

And I wouldn't disagree in any way if the Black 5 came out top.




Just to say that, although unashamedly my favourite loco of all time, my nomination of the Duchess is not really due to it being the 'sexiest'. Interestingly, in your citing of  'success' and 'fitness for purpose' as criteria for 'best', I would argue that the Duchess design scores high on both. They were undoubtedly a 'success' and in terms of 'fitness for purpose', they had a very specific purpose - to take 550 ton trains unaided over the northern banks. And that is exactly what they did! It's often forgotten that much of their work was done at night time on the heavy overnight sleeper trains, rarely recorded or photographed. In doing the research for my 'Hills of the North' project, I hadn't realised just how many such trains there were. Something like eight Scottish departures alone from Euston throughout the evening, most of which were allocated to a Duchess, with a further member of the class typically taking over at either Crewe or Carlisle. With some of those turns being two day workings, you've easily got half the class tied up on such trains.


Small, niche class? Possibly. Best in terms of success and fitness for purpose? Absolutely! 


I can’t argue with that...almost as good as a Gresley pacific!


But the Black 5 and 8F still win for me on numbers alone.

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Posted (edited)

8F and Black5 have to be the choice as the numbers and widespread use must indicate their suitability for the tasks they had (have), so that wins it for me as they are also handsome engines is the icing on the top.

Edited by jollysmart
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3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I am going for the very successful but not glamorous class 4 passenger tanks. The Fowler version soldiered on almost to the end of steam, the Stanier 2 cylinder and the Fairburn versions almost saw steam's farewell. Stanier's 3 cylinder locos as I have stated before possibly got more passengers safely to their destinations on a daily basis than the Coronation Princess class did. Ivatt's WT class of the NCC, later NIR lasted even longer.


As it such a hard choice I will go for the tender version the Northern Counties Committee W class 2-6-0, very successful and useful. The NCC is a British railway as it is within the borders of the UK of GB and NI, and was owned by the LMS.  A version for the main system on the island of Great Britain would have equally successful, but with so many Crabs and later Black Fives there did not appear to be a need for a loco that would do the same work despite how good the tank versions were.


LMS/NCC Stewart W class 2-6-0. image.png.23fa9faf8944f01552c56783465fa188.png

Interesting choice but H P Stewart is not one of the qualifying designers designated by the Rules Committee ( Gilbert ) :huh:

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30 minutes ago, jazzer said:

Interesting choice but H P Stewart is not one of the qualifying designers designated by the Rules Committee ( Gilbert ) :huh:

Ah but, Stanier authorised Stewart to go ahead using off the shelf LMS bits and bobs. Therefore I should have correctly called them Stanier Class W. Had I done so someone would have said they were a Stewart design, remember Stewart was Stanier's man in Northern Ireland, so correctly they should be Stanier/Stewart Class W.

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12 hours ago, great northern said:

Which brings us to the search for the overall best locomotive design of the LMS. Qualifying CMEs are Hughes, Fowler,Lemon,Stanier, Fairburn and H G Ivatt. I don't know if any of those did any designs for overseas railways, but if they did, they don't qualify. Now try to wriggle your way out of that one. Some of you will, I just know you will.

Okay. This one has to be the  Stanier 0F 7080–7119. While the earlier LMS 7069-7079 are closer in pattern to the eventual thousand plus future copies on which the railway still depends, they are not attributed to a qualifying CME...

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40 minutes ago, great northern said:

We had a lovely morning, we did. A trifle cold, but never mind. And Clive was very good indeed. So good to be able just to sit and talk with good friends.


Your evening picture gives another angle on the departure of 60111.







Lovely natural shot. The A3s really were elegant.

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That was a closer poll than I expected. 3 votes for the Coronations got us under way, but after that it became a battle between the Black 5 and the 8F, which the Black 5 shaded by just two votes, 12 to 10.


And so the the LNER. The very best design of that august Company. I will allow first, second and third choices, as this is going to be a hard one. Once again, restricted to locos which actually ran on the LNER please.

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8 minutes ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Gilbert, did you mean to change from "successful" to best?

Good question. I suppose it could be argued that the best would also be the most successful, but I should stick to what has gone before, so most successful it is.

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Thanks for the clarification, it does affect my vote.


If it were "best", then I would vote


(1), express passenger A4, fast and powerful

(2) mixed traffic the V4 (better route availability and riding, and more even torque than the B1)

(3) freight the P1, the 9F of the twenties and thirties but a loco ahead of its time.


As we are voting for most successful, my votes are


(1) express passenger A3, (more numerous and longer-lived than other express classes)

(2) mixed traffic, V2 (numerous and versatile)

(3) heavy goods, the Robinson O4, a very numerous, long lived and robust locomotive.


Whilst I've not included any tank engines, in my mind none challenged the above choices.

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