The Shape of Things To Come

[Guest Phil]

My pacemaker nearly ran a bearing when I read the LMS 'Austin Seven' would pale into insignificance beside a GWR 47XX............

 

 

It worked !!! :rolleyes:

How could I, a self confessed Midland man really say that, but you have to admit Coach that all that brass and copper does make them "look" a little more attractive, even if we know they didn't shape up to the products of Derby and Crewe. I always say brass and copper are for making valves and pipes out of, not plastering all over the exterior.

[Guest Phil]

Apologies if the one I'm about to suggest has already been mentioned, but I missed it if it has.

 

The criteria of:

 

lots of liveries

wide sphere of operation

 

that seem to have been applied in the past (but not so much recently) both fall short for this particular class, but I still predict that one will be forthcoming in the not too distant future.

 

I speak of course of the plug ugly monstrosities that have just started to arrive at Newport docks, 2 so far, another 4 to come soon.

 

ps Did you know that all of the new classes of loco built since the 87s (mid 70s) are available 00 RTR with the exception of the solitary experimental 89.

I don't go any further back because when you do, multiple classes overlap, I'm not sure if the first 50 was built after all other classes had been completed, but I suspect not.

 

I've no doubt the 70 will appear in 4mm and 2mm fairly soon. Does it's wheelbases match anything currently produced ?

 

The Hornby Javelin is a classic case of summat ubernew being produced. You'd expect a 3-car 185 DMU rather than a 6-car EMU wouldn't you ? Is it something to do with Margate being in Kent ?

 

Still rather see an RTR class 120 though.....

 

 

Me too, in green and blue.

[Pinkmouse]

It worked !!! :rolleyes:

How could I, a self confessed Midland man really say that, but you have to admit Coach that all that brass and copper does make them "look" a little more attractive, even if we know they didn't shape up to the products of Derby and Crewe. I always say brass and copper are for making valves and pipes out of, not plastering all over the exterior.

 

 

But just think of the DCC options on an Austin 7. Individually selectable glowing red-hot hornblocks perhaps?

[coachmann]

Pinkmouse :

But just think of the DCC options on an Austin 7. Individually selectable glowing red-hot hornblocks perhaps?

Behave that man. The red spot on a 47XX was on the cabside, which rather limited their usefulness.

[The Stationmaster]

Pinkmouse : Behave that man. The red spot on a 47XX was on the cabside, which rather limited their usefulness.

 

Extremely impressive machines the 47XX but some men were not at all fond of them on pasenger work because of the lever reverser. And if someone can make, and presumably thinks they will sell, an 00 gauge version of a very small class of diesels which operated almost entirely in a very limited geographical area on one route (the D59XX) I'm qiouite sure a large mixed traffic 2-8-0 which ran over all the main line routes of its original owner and appeared over the years in at least 3 different liveries might have something going for it

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

....if someone can make, and presumably thinks they will sell, an 00 gauge version of a very small class of diesels ...

 

I have to admit to being a little curious about the Heljan operation. What I have gathered is that it is three generations family owned outfit, and started out in plastic mouldings as the founder of the firm was a trained toolmaker, initially making kits on railway themes, then RTR, and fairly recently branching out into locos. The plastic body moulding tools are I believe still created and operated in Denmark, and until three or four years ago, the required running chassis were sourced from Regal Way, and shipped to Denmark to be assembled with the finished bodies. Nowadays the bodies are still moulded in Denmark, but then (decorated or undecorated?) go to China for final assembly.

 

Now here is what I am curious about: they do seem able to tool up for very short runs and fairly risky subjects. Even allowing for the use of softer tooling to cut costs, I do wonder if they are not fully exposed to some of the normal costs involved in research and development, through to creating the tooling; because this activity is done directly by the proprieters rather than by bought in labour. Any thoughts, or does someone here actually know?

[Barry Ten]

And if someone can make, and presumably thinks they will sell, an 00 gauge version of a very small class of diesels which operated almost entirely in a very limited geographical area on one route (the D59XX) I'm qiouite sure a large mixed traffic 2-8-0 which ran over all the main line routes of its original owner and appeared over the years in at least 3 different liveries might have something going for it

 

Yes, black with LMS, black with BR on and latterly blue with SDJR - how can it not be a winner?

 

Actually, I'd love a 47XX - bring it on.

[7013]

Pretty sure that the Beattie Well tank will be Sept. 2010 as Kernow MRC are planning to launch it at their first and by the sounds of it BIG show, I will be there to pick up my order anyway. Not forgetting the imminent Dapol Silver Bullet

[Guest Phil]

Yes, black with LMS, black with BR on and latterly blue with SDJR - how can it not be a winner?

 

Actually, I'd love a 47XX - bring it on.

 

 

Yeah, but, right.......... if you picked the small boilered version - imagine the froth on here about wanting the large boilered examples, and vice versa.

 

Going back to the 47xx for a very brief moment - I'm guessing they went GW green - BR black - BR green.

The wheels wouldn't have been big enough to be painted blue !!!

[The Stationmaster]

Yeah, but, right.......... if you picked the small boilered version - imagine the froth on here about wanting the large boilered examples, and vice versa.

 

Going back to the 47xx for a very brief moment - I'm guessing they went GW green - BR black - BR green.

The wheels wouldn't have been big enough to be painted blue !!!

 

 

Even BR lined green!! So there you are - the only 8-coupled loco to run in BR lined green livery in everyday service, gets better every minute.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Never the greatest GW fan, I am nevertheless impressed by the suitably massive appearance of this breed of locomotive. It looks huge and purposeful - just the way a heavy freight loco should! :icon_thumbsup2:

 

You Swindon boys are due a turn anyway.

 

After those of us who like NE and Scottish...!

 

Dave.

[coachmann]

If Hornby's new 'Castle' in all its variations sells like hot cakes, and the follow-up 'Star' does equally as well, then I'm sure you copper & brass guys will get your 47XX 2-8-0....

[david130653]

Fascinating reading and I find I agree with .....everybody

 

Seriously, there are many really worthy candidates and some really serious omissions. I am not an LNER modeller, but I do feel that that region is severely neglected, though most of its steam locos were small 0-6-0s and probably, apart from the real enthusiasts, not likely to be great sellers.

 

That said, my dream loco would be a P2, preferably in original shape, not the later A4 front end. But this is one from the heart. My brain says that given their number and widespread nature we are really missing a good Fowler 0-6-0, either 3F or 4F.

 

I do wonder if we are nearing a point where the major and minor manufacturers should do something along the lines of "it costs X to do this size steam loco at this number, Y to do this size and Z this size, with A,B & C for Diesel and Electric, put your credit card number and preferred types on this list and if we reach the required number, we will debit your card and produce the loco". Something along those lines anyway.

 

Result, we get what we want, they don't get left giving stuff away because they have over produced or there is no interest.

[The Stationmaster]

If Hornby's new 'Castle' in all its variations sells like hot cakes, and the follow-up 'Star' does equally as well, then I'm sure you copper & brass guys will get your 47XX 2-8-0....

 

 

Well I'm doing my bit with the 'Castle' - two on order and planning a third from a box shifter so that should help And while I would love a 47XX I'd much sooner see a properly reworked 28XX/38xx (or both B) )first.

[The Black Hat]

Yes, black with LMS, black with BR on and latterly blue with SDJR - how can it not be a winner?

Actually, I'd love a 47XX - bring it on.

 

Even BR lined green!! So there you are - the only 8-coupled loco to run in BR lined green livery in everyday service, gets better every minute.

 

It cant be a winner for the 0-8-0 as its not a Q6!

 

 

Never the greatest GW fan, I am nevertheless impressed by the suitably massive appearance of this breed of locomotive. It looks huge and purposeful - just the way a heavy freight loco should!

 

You Swindon boys are due a turn anyway.

 

After those of us who like NE and Scottish...!

 

Dave.

 

I agree Dave, but about the point we come first!

 

Yours,

 

(Tongue in cheek)

[coachmann]

Whichever ex LNER loco the proprietory firms produce is always going to be a gamble seeing as they are pretty nondescript. By this I mean there is nothing about any of them that shouts 'buy me now'. However, if the 0-6-0 were part of a family of engines it would be a start. By this I mean a Bachmann GCR 04 2-8-0, GCR D11 4-4-0 and GCR J11 0-6-0.

 

A 'family' already developed was the LNER Pacific, LNER V2 2-6-2, LNER V1 2-6-2T, and LNER J39 0-6-0.

 

After GEM Models had produced a range of LNWR locos, things were at a loose end. So when GEM's pattern maker privately built patterns for a NBR J83 0-6-0T, GEM offered to cast and market it for the man. Sales were such that the pattern maker was kept busy producing a NBR 0-6-0 tender loco, a 'Glen' 4-4-0, a 'Scott' 4-4-0 and a NBR Atlantic. Families work it seems!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... A 'family' already developed was the LNER Pacific, LNER V2 2-6-2, LNER V1 2-6-2T, LNER J39 0-6-0...

...K3 2-6-0, B17 4-6-0, B1 4-6-0, O7 2-8-0, J52 and J94 0-6-0T, and N2 0-6-2T. Pretty good, just needs the small 0-6-0 (J6), 0-6-0T (J50), and an older 2-8-0 (which we are getting as the O4 which was the de-facto standard eight coupled goods) to round out the picture of the principal types of motive power on the Southern half of the LNER main line. Just the J6 0-6-0 and J50 0-6-0T to go then. For sure it would be good to have K2 , Pepp K1 and O2 Doncaster family members as well, but let's be realistic.

[papagolfjuliet]

Yes, black with LMS, black with BR on and latterly blue with SDJR - how can it not be a winner?

 

 

I'm told that a couple of chaps from Bachmann measured up 53809 at Grosmont last month, so you never know.

[The Stationmaster]

 

I'm told that a couple of chaps from Bachmann measured up 53809 at Grosmont last month, so you never know.

 

 

So next year both Bachmann and Hornby will announce an S&D 2-8-0 - after all Mr Kohler does like blue locos

[Neal Ball]

Hi guys,

 

A couple of people have eluded already to the economy above.

 

Realistically, what chances are there of Bachmann, Hornby et al. putting huge sums of money into future production over the next (say) 12 months. The economic outlook remains grim until way after the next election.

 

2010 may not be a good year for new models. Maybe some cosmetic (cheaper production) ideas from the main companies.

 

I could of course be wrong, in which case, I have my wish-list ready! Plus of course the emergence of the likes of Kernow producing their own models, maybe that will be the way the industry goes?

 

Finger in the air job I guess.

 

Apparently though, Hornby have opened their own shop at the old factory in Margate.

 

 

[pinza]

Personally I'm not convinced the ecomony makes a huge difference to demand in our particuar market, it might spread out purchases over a longer period of time but I would be surprised if there has been a significant downturn in the turnover of the model railway industry, partially due to the wide range of age groups who purchase.

I would expect at least two each from Hornby and Bachmann in terms of signifcant announcements in Dcember and February, of which 3 are likely to be steam, given the saturation levels in modern image locos nowadays. As Dapol have at least 4 locos in 00 gauge on the way, Heljan now announcing the Baby Deltic + Class 15 on the way, that's not exactly a shortage of new things to tempt us!

[papagolfjuliet]

Hornby's recent spate of new Pullmans, and the success of the 'Devon Belle' saloon, might have established a couple of precedents in terms of the production of unusual coaching and even multiple unit stock. Bulleid tavern cars, perhaps? The NER dynamometer car? Super saloons? LNER 'Coronation' stock?

[The Black Hat]

Yes I agree that Eastern region engines will essencially be split between the North and South of the Eastern Region system. But as I said before, the North Eastern region already has a great number of engines that are already produced to model the area effectively. Given Hornby like modelling families and regions, it makes sence to go for the North East first. The M7 can become a G5 and sales of this will be boosted given the new on under construction will be finished soon.

 

But the Eastern region already has other engines made. The A1, A2, A3, A4 are the express engines, and all save the A2 are in the shops with the A2 soon to be. Other midland region engines such as the 43xxx, 46xxx and Fairburn and stannier tanks, all were transfered over and could be seen there too. Even sales of green diesels such as the 03, 08, 24, 25, 47, 55, would all be boosted too as they are available. If you make one or two engines people will buy the whole fleet to get it done. By producing the odd North Eastern machine it makes people want to get other engines already produced to build the operational fleet for the area. As a result sales in existing models would be complimented, a good shrewd move for a company wanting a bounce out of a recession and dip in the hobby.

 

Adding some from either a Q6, K1, J21, G5 and j27 would mean that it would give the whole fleet. Most of them are rugged steam engines and so its not surprising that this thread is there for the attention of Bachmann.

[Jon Fitness]

I'd be happy with an IOW 02 in OO gauge. I'd have 5 or 6. I've built a 7mm scale one but couln't afford the time or money to build any more!

[Bloodnok]

Yes, and that was exactly what was proposed in print when interviewed by Model Rail back in 2007. Do the 4-CEP in response to the loudly expressed demand for a southern EMU, despite the previous poor UK EMU sales; on the sales results of that the judgement will be made. I remember the words very clearly: "if it bombs, that's the end of the argument". Vote with your wallets EMUistas (the most honest vote we ever cast!).

 

Problem is, as I understand it, they are doing the 1960s/1970s condition only - pre refurbishment. I know I'd have one in a heartbeat, if only I could get it in NSE livery. It's not quite the one I want (Really, I want a 4-VEP or 4-CIG) and it doesn't fit in with my future plans, but hey - plans can change. This is the kind of product that could shape my purchasing future - if only they'd picked the correct era to represent. (Note: usage of "correct" here is with reference to me specifically.)

 

But to get to that stage (one impulse buy influencing future layout plans, and thus creating market), for me it'd have to be the refurbished version. Or a CIG. Or a VEP. Or an EPB. Or even a 455. Basically, anything I can get in NSE livery. That's the railway I grew up with, and anything that I remember from that era is going to sell to me.

 

I imagine all the manufacturers will be waiting with interest the sales results achieved by Heljan's class 86.

 

That will be an interesting one. For starters - they've jumped firmly in the middle with both feet, rather than dipping a toe in at an edge. 86s alone added to currently available models can make whole new layout options. It is long lived, multi-purpose, and with plenty of liveries. There are numerous subclasses and variations to be made. It can be represented early enough to mix with steam, and late enough to stretch firmly into privatisation. It doesn't need an accompanying fleet of other stuff to go with it - existing RTR will accompany it just fine.

 

I know I'll definitely be having one - BR TOPS blue for me please. Like the CEP, it doesn't fit in with my current plans, but unlike the CEP it is in the right era, so wouldn't be a stretch for me to accommodate. I can justify it as an interloper - without wires up its dead in consist, a diverted train being dragged across a gap, which my layout is theoretically in. If it turns out to be a real good model, that 'just one' will likely grow to several. At that point, I'll be needing to install some wires (can't have a whole fleet wandering about being hauled dead now can we?), and then I'll be after other AC electrics (and EMUs) to go with them. Bingo, market created.

 

So what comes next? There's nothing else that is as relatively unrestricted as an 86 in terms of era and area. Go too early, and it won't appeal to people like me. However, anything later than the 86, and you can't have it cross paths with a kettle, so you'll lose the other end. I guess the versions and liveries of 86s sold will decide that one - lots of early versions in electric blue or pre-TOPS corporate blue, and we'll probably get something 81-85 next. Lots of TOPS blue and it may suggest an 87 would be a good idea. Lots of sector or privatisation and it probably points to a 90, or maybe even a 91 if it's clustered towards InterCity and/or passenger TOCs.